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[Heartofice]

1 hour ago, Which Tyler said:

I'll need more than "Monbiot said it" to discount the idea of re-introducing previously native species into rewilding areas.
It's generally worked pretty sell so far, and (to my limited knowledge) is an idea with a lot of ecological minds approving it.

Well it will work up till the point where one person gets attacked by a wolf, then it won’t. It doesn’t even have to be a person, just one sheep gets attacked, it’s done. 
 

 Either way, the point I’m highlighting is that Monbiot gets held up by the left as some smart thinker, but is actually considered a bit of a joke by a lot of others, because he’s not very smart. 
 

The problem the Tories have is , as you say, they don’t offer anything, just incompetence and trying to appear tough whilst not actually being tough at at all. ‘Boats week’ is just a distraction from the fact that they aren’t prepared to able to do anything about immigration. It’s all about distraction. 

[Raja]

Wonder if we'll have a 'health week' after the resounding success of 'stop the boats' week

[Spockydog]

53 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Either way, the point I’m highlighting is that Monbiot gets held up by the left as some smart thinker, but is actually considered a bit of a joke by a lot of others, because he’s not very smart.

Just like Chris Packham, Gary Lineker, and every other leftie trying to help society do the right thing, he's considered a joke by stupid people who suck up the shite printed by actual joke newspapers, along with cretins who seem perfectly willing to disbelieve the evidence of their own eyes and ears, just because Murdoch told them to.

 

[BigFatCoward]

Man is wrong about one thing hence about everything. Interesting take. 

[Heartofice]

1 minute ago, BigFatCoward said:

Man is wrong about one thing hence about everything. Interesting take. 

Hardly, the guy has been a meme for years 

[Raja]

I mean, I heard him on the radio and we've all agreed he's right about this so

[Spockydog]

Why is Monibot wrong about wolves? They bring all kinds of ecological benefits, as demonstrated by rewilding schemes all over the world. 

Farmers have dealt with the threat of wolves since the dawn of civilization. Usually, all they need to protect their herds are very big dogs. 

[Spockydog]

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Well it will work up till the point where one person gets attacked by a wolf, then it won’t. It doesn’t even have to be a person, just one sheep gets attacked, it’s done. 

Here is another glaring example of HoI just spewing out some bollocks because it fits with his increasingly narrow worldview of how everything should work. 

There have been plenty of 'attacks' on humans by wolves. Usually rabies is involved. But wolf attacks are rarely fatal. And I am unaware of any rewilding schemes being shut down because one sheep got et, or a kid got bit. 

Stop talking bollocks. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Spockydog

[A wilding]

Monbiot's article on deer is a rushed confused take on a complex subject. He talks about munjac deer, but they are mostly found in southern and eastern England where there is definitely no space for wild wolves. In fact deer are a serious issue mostly in the Scottish Highlands. While it is widely agreed that something needs to be done about them there, reintroducing wolves is definitely not an uncontroversial idea. Indeed some of the strongest proponents are big landowners who think it will deter hill walkers and the like from going onto their estates - one guy wants not only to introduce wolves on his estate, but to fence it all off and not allow any access.

[Heartofice]

1 hour ago, Spockydog said:

There have been plenty of 'attacks' on humans by wolves. Usually rabies is involved. But wolf attacks are rarely fatal.

 

I don't even know where to start with this comment. So you are claiming that a wolf attack is.. what.. like a flesh wound? Barely a scratch? 

The other argument I've seen defending this batshit idea are along the 'dogs attack more people than wolves' line.. completely seeming to ignore that wolves have been absent from the UK for centuries. On top of that maybe we should try and remember why they were purposefully exterminated in the first place. 
 

1 hour ago, Spockydog said:

And I am unaware of any rewilding schemes being shut down because one sheep got et, or a kid got bit. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/17/germany-wolves-farmers-environmentalists

Quote

Wolf attacks on livestock increased drastically in 2017, according to government statistics released at the weekend: they carried out 472 attacks, an increase of 66% over the previous year. The number of killed, injured or missing livestock – mostly sheep and goats – rose 55%, to 1,667.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/13/wolves-germany-revival-attacks/
 

Quote

As the wolf population has grown, attacks have become more frequent. There have been 216 in Lower Saxony so far this year — killing 601 animals — compared to 174 attacks in the same seven-month period last year. Across Germany, 4,366 farm animals were killed by wolves in 2022, including 30 horses and four llamas. That marked a 30 percent rise from the year before.

https://www.wildernessscotland.com/blog/the-big-debate-should-we-reintroduce-wild-species/

Quote

However, predation of domestic livestock is a major issue when Wolf re-introduction is mentioned. Studies in Switzerland on Lynx show this species hardly ever took domestic livestock, but a study in Spain showed that 80% of domestic livestock mortality was due to Wolves

This has caused numerous calls to allow farmers to shoot more wolves and the farmers are furious. So the issue here is that, even if you pretend that somehow, no humans will ever be attacked by a wolf, livestock definitely will, and it might in fact create massive problems for farmers. The arguments I've seen for this is that you just need more shepherds... which is.. well fucking hilarious. 

On top of that, just think about how many people are going to go hiking in the Scottish Highlands knowing there are fucking WOLVES there! 

So the idea that this is some sort of smart, non controversial idea is total bollocks, who could seriously think that introducing Wolves onto a small island that is either densely populated cities or farmland is a sound strategy other than walking meme Monbiot. 
Then when you look at the reasons Monbiot thinks WOLVES is the answer to a growing deer population, above all the other possible solutions, he thinks that we can't simply shoot deer.. because.. er... capitalism or something. Thats the level of thinking coming out of this genius.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Heartofice

[ljkeane]

4 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

On top of that, just think about how many people are going to go hiking in the Scottish Highlands knowing there are fucking WOLVES there!

The livestock thing would definitely be a problem but people go hiking all the time in places where there are wolves. Maybe there'd be some people scared off (not many I'd think) but you'd probably get people going because there are wolves to see to balance it out.

[Zorral]

As far as being deterred from hiking in habitats that host actual dangerous animals, such as grizzlies and cougars, it's not stopped people from coming to the wildly over-used National Wildlife Parks.  Who has gotten hurt are idiots who think putting treats in the hands of their kids to lure over a bear for a selfie. Then the bear must be killed.  Or the elk or whichever wild animal the human idiot species does not respect.

Where we live there are now shark attacks in the waters around Long Island and NYC.  Nobody's deterred from going into the water.  Of course these are small sharks, not the sorts we saw in Jaws, which might make a difference. 

After Queens Shark Bite, Drones Buzz Over Unfazed Beachgoers
The city has stepped up shark-monitoring efforts after a rare attack at Rockaway Beach, but many swimmers and surfers are undeterred.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/13/nyregion/rockaway-beach-shark-bite.html

The debate may be rather different in the EU -- or the UK -- than the US, though the reasons are the same.

Wolves, once confined to fairy tales, are back in Germany, stirring debate

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/13/wolves-germany-revival-attacks/

Quote

 

.... Germany does not have the expansive national parks that have supported reintroduction in the United States, said Steffi Lemke, Germany’s environment minister. It is smaller than Montana — where wolves were reintroduced to Yellowstone National Park in the mid-1990s and are hunted under quota — but Germany has 80 times as many people and a similar number of wolves.

Book explores the fall and rise of wolves at Yellowstone, and how the park’s ecology is recovering since their return

“Germany is very, very densely populated, and we have very few large, contiguous natural areas,” Lemke said. “That’s why it has been difficult to manage between those who say that this is a very great success of nature conservation to have this predator here with us again, and those who say we must protect the grazing animals.” ...

 

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Zorral

[Raja]

If this means we might get an agatha christie novel where the wolves are the actual killers, then I think it's a net positive.

[Spockydog]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Wolf attacks on livestock increased drastically in 2017, according to government statistics released at the weekend: they carried out 472 attacks, an increase of 66% over the previous year. The number of killed, injured or missing livestock – mostly sheep and goats – rose 55%, to 1,667.

Lol. I mean, come the fuck on.

Let's do some maths, shall we?

How many farm animals are there estimated to be in Germany?

150,000,000. That's quite a lot.

How many were killed by wolves?

According to your post, it was 1,667.

That's a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny fraction. 0.00111% to be precise. So let's not pretend there's some kind of lupine apocalypse going on, eh?

Edited August 13, 2023 by Spockydog

[Heartofice]

7 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Lol. I mean, come the fuck on.

Let's do some maths, shall we?

How many farm animals are there estimated to be in Germany?

150,000,000. That's quite a lot.

How many were killed by wolves?

1,667.

That's a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny fraction. 0.00111% to be precise. 

Lol! Tell that to farmers! There is a reason there is such outcry to cull the numbers of wolves. Plus, it’s not like the numbers of wolves is fixed or they can’t grow.

maybe do the maths on a 66% increase year on year 

Come on mate, just admit the idea is totally ridiculous and Monbiot is a joke. 
 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Heartofice

[Raja]

Doesn't change the fact that he's right about the tories though

[Zorral]

Wolves are back in France and Spain as well.  They were not re-introduced.  In France and Spain, where they were considered extinct, part of what has brought them back is the extinction of their habitats with the wildfires of 2018-2019.

[Heartofice]

8 minutes ago, Raja said:

Doesn't change the fact that he's right about the tories though

Not sure why you need someone like Monbiot to tell you the Tories are shit. 
 

But then I guess if you cite him a source of informational authority then.. well.. not sure what to say about that..

[Spockydog]

14 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Lol! Tell that to farmers! There is a reason there is such outcry to cull the numbers of wolves. Plus, it’s not like the numbers of wolves is fixed or they can’t grow.

So you make as part of your rewilding project a compensation scheme for farmers. This shit ain't difficult. 

[Spockydog]

2 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Not sure why you need someone like Monbiot to tell you the Tories are shit. 
 

 

Says the man who has spent much of the past ten years defending the cunts.