Characters who suffered but for who you have no sympathy

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

37 minutes ago, Kal-L said:

No, I'll go with a more controversial one with the end of Rhaegar of Dragonstone

I think I'll have to add this to my list too, since I forgot about him.. I've tried to be sympathetic towards him but for some reason I can't.

[Odej]

Ok, that's probably controversial: Maester Aemon.

I think the all the excuses he gives to stay way from power aren't a sign of a honorable heart, but of someone running away from responsibility. He defends the throne belongs to Aegon, his little brother. Really? A guy who spent most of his life wandering around Westeros with a hedge knight and who had little contact with the political game would be a better king that Aemon, a highly capable maester?

He himself recognized that Aegon was in many ways still a boy and Aemon still left the seven kingdoms in Aegon hands with a kiss and a advice when he was by far the best option for the throne between his brothers. That whole little speech he gives to Jon Snow about love and duty sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Odej

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

1 minute ago, Odej said:

Ok, that's probably controversial: Maester Aemon.

I think the all the excuses he gives to stay way from power aren't a sign of a honorable heart, but of someone running away from responsibility. He defends the throne belongs to Aegon, his little brother. Really? A guy who spent most of his life wandering around Westeros with a hedge knight  and had little contact with the political game would be a better king that Aemon, a highly capable maester.

He himself recognized that Aegon was in many ways still a boy and Aemon still left the seven kingdoms in Aegon hands with a kiss and a advice when he was by far the best option for the throne between his brothers. That whole little speech he gives to Jon Snow about love and duty sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

I like Aemon overall, maybe because he comes off as a sweet grandpa type (in my eyes.) But I agree with you too. In fact, the whole "kill the boy and let the man be born" speech never sat well with me. I could always start a separate thread if anyone wants to discuss it.

[Kal-L]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Yes, amazing, isn’t it? Cersei the Virtuous has now taken her rightful place in the gallery of the Best & Brightest that Westeros has to offer. And she’s in good company, standing next to Ramsay the Misunderstood, Janos the Just, Walder the Honourable, and many other upstanding citizens.

The fascinating part behind that farce is that the same posters who pretend to be benevolent souls, feminist defenders conscious of the hardships that endured poor Cersei are the same who deshumanized Arya by calling her a "creature".

And I'm not talking about the casual accounts with few hundreds of posts who only post to discuss Starks' madness or Tullys' madness out of an obvious need of retaliation against the real Targaryens' madness, these one are obvious. I'm talking about longtime poster(s) with thousands of posts who are not as subtle in their hate (that I associate to a fear of the final outcome) of the Starks that they think they are.

[Odej]

17 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

I like Aemon overall, maybe because he comes off as a sweet grandpa type (in my eyes.)

I really liked him during most of my time with this universe, this reflection on him came to my mind recently and I can no longer see him in the same way. Negligence can also cause a lot of damage.

 

20 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

I could always start a separate thread if anyone wants to discuss it.

That would be nice!

[James Steller]

6 hours ago, Odej said:

Barbrey Dustin. Do I understand the reasons why she hates the Starks? Yes. Do I want Manderly and Stannis to display her head on the walls of Winterfell alongside the Boltons and Freys? YES.

What exactly has she done, though? I’m still convinced that she’s secretly working against the Boltons while pretending to take their sides. She talks about hating the Starks, and maybe she does, but I don’t think she’s pro Bolton. She hates Ramsay more than Ned, and I don’t think she loves Roose either.

[Odej]

26 minutes ago, James Steller said:

What exactly has she done, though? I’m still convinced that she’s secretly working against the Boltons while pretending to take their sides. She talks about hating the Starks, and maybe she does, but I don’t think she’s pro Bolton. She hates Ramsay more than Ned, and I don’t think she loves Roose either.

Everybody hates Ramsey, she more than anyone because of Domeric and she definitely despises Roose as well, but don't like her. I don't think she plays double, but even if she does, I don't feel anything good for her.

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

Jon Snow.  Jon gets no sympathy from me.

[Kal-L]

15 hours ago, Odej said:

Everybody hates Ramsey, she more than anyone because of Domeric and she definitely despises Roose as well, but don't like her. I don't think she plays double, but even if she does, I don't feel anything good for her.

What would warrant her head being displayed on the walls of Winterfell by Stannis or the Manderlys then ? Claiming to hate Ned Stark ?

[Odej]

2 hours ago, Kal-L said:

What would warrant her head being displayed on the walls of Winterfell by Stannis or the Manderlys then ? Claiming to hate Ned Stark ?

I just don't like her, it's hard to explain. Pointing out her hatred for the Starks and this leading her to ally with the Boltons could be a reason. But being honest, I like several character who hate the Starks, so her hate for them isn't really a big deal now I think about it.

The woman lost her lover, potential husbands (Brandon and Ned), her actual husband, a sister, a nephew. She went through a lot, but I can't stand her. I just want her dead, I don't know why she pisses me off so much.

I recognized that doesn't match well with this thread goal. In my case Barbrey belongs more to 'characters you hate for no particular reason but you can't help yourself' thread.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Odej

[Willam Stark]

Cersei, Joffrey, Viserys III, Littlefinger, Theon, Lysa, Victarion, Aeron.

[Kierria]

Hoster Tully

Joffrey Baratheon

Syrio Forel

Jon Snow

Little Walder

 

 

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

On 9/22/2023 at 5:31 PM, Odej said:

Everybody hates Ramsey, she more than anyone because of Domeric and she definitely despises Roose as well, but don't like her. I don't think she plays double, but even if she does, I don't feel anything good for her.

Are we talking about Babe-rey?? I'm obsessed with her. I want her to slap me in the face. She is a pretty unlikable character, I just feel entertained by the women in this series. Barbrey is an extremely bitter woman and feels robbed by Catelyn "Tully", who is not responsible for anything that has happened to Barbrey. At some point, you have to admit you're being classless and petty for being so envious of an innocent woman. She loved Brandon, and probably still does, but this anger she can't let go of leads me to believe she maybe had an obsession to be one of them. Otherwise, why be so angry at Cat? In the end, Cat didn't end up with Brandon. Her love for Brandon seems to have been laced with ambitions, being the lady of Winterfell. if that's the case, Rickard's own ambitions interfered with hers and it still makes her seethe.

Everyone who lived through Robert's Rebellion seem to have a major part of themselves who are stuck in the past. Barbrey, Catelyn, Littlefinger, Lysa, Robert, Stannis, Cersei, Jaime, even Ned. Pain, grief, and trauma that they were never able to fully heal from.

[Odej]

12 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

She loved Brandon, and probably still does, but this anger she can't let go of leads me to believe she maybe had an obsession to be one of them. Otherwise, why be so angry at Cat? In the end, Cat didn't end up with Brandon

I think that's because like many people Barbrey needs put the blame in someone. And Catelyn not only stole Brandon from her, she stole Ned too since Barbrey hoped a marriege with Rickard second son after Brandon engagement with Catelyn. That didn't happen, she married another guy and she seems to like him, but this one was also taken from her, and this time by Ned.

[Kal-L]

Barbrey's testimony to Theon makes no sense, that's why I don't believe in her claims of hating the Starks and am even doubtful about her claims regarding Brandon. She acts like Brandon only ever wanted her, pretending to buy into his "I would leave my wife for you if not for the children" act, while few seconds before she was like "that dawg was wild"... So what is that ? Is she really naive enough to believe Brandon's sweet talk or is she not ?. She needs to pick a stance. Then she claims that after the announcement of Brandon's betrothal to Cat, she had hoped to marry Ned, but he was stolen as well by Cat... Except it doesn't make sense, she was married to Willam Dustin before Brandon's death.

I already shared my thoughts on that matter. I don't believe Barbrey was Brandon's lover, I think it was her late sister Bethany. Barbrey's older sister was the one who ended up heart-broken by the announcement of Brandon's betrothal to Catelyn Tully, the one naive enough to believe into his talk and who had to be quickly married off to the widowed Lord Bolton (unable to conceive a legitimate heir with his first wife). I also believe she was pregnant with Brandon's child which is what pushed Barbrey to cover her by playing the act of Brandon's lover. It's possible Barbrey's genuinely hoped to marry Ned - her obsession with his bones and the lingering look on his statue before leaving the crypt lead me to think so -, we will have to wait the liberation of the North with the ending of the Bolton to know the truth.

[Groo]

Stannis. A middle son who normally wouldn't inherit anything. He becomes Lord of Dragonstone and gets a seat on the small council as Master of Ships. He acts like he's been locked in a broom closet and fed scraps his entire life. Family didn't love you as much as you wanted? Welcome to the human race. People don't seem to like you? Either change how you act around them or accept the fact and cherish the few that do. King seemed stingy in his rewards to you? Most subjects feel that way.

[Craving Peaches]

2 minutes ago, Groo said:

Stannis. A middle son who normally wouldn't inherit anything. He becomes Lord of Dragonstone and gets a seat on the small council as Master of Ships. He acts like he's been locked in a broom closet and fed scraps his entire life. Family didn't love you as much as you wanted? Welcome to the human race. People don't seem to like you? Either change how you act around them or accept the fact and cherish the few that do. King seemed stingy in his rewards to you? Most subjects feel that way.

He's also very hypocritical in numerous ways. Complains Robert never rewarded him but also says people shouldn't be rewarded just for doing their duty. Wants to ban prostitution but he himself is an adulterer. Fails to do his duty to Robert by not informing him of the incest yet expects everyone do do their duty to him as King (setting aside the fact he never bothers to tell anyone what he's doing).

[Lee-Sensei]

3 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

He's also very hypocritical in numerous ways. Complains Robert never rewarded him but also says people shouldn't be rewarded just for doing their duty. Wants to ban prostitution but he himself is an adulterer. Fails to do his duty to Robert by not informing him of the incest yet expects everyone do do their duty to him as King (setting aside the fact he never bothers to tell anyone what he's doing).

I really like Stannis, but he's a massive hypocrite on a lot of issues. I don't think the prostitution one is fair though. You can be a cheater and still not like prostitution.

[Craving Peaches]

32 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

You can be a cheater and still not like prostitution.

What is traditionally considered 'bad' about prostitution though is (among other things) that it is (encouraging) sex outside of marriage. So I do think it is hypocritical for Stannis to want to ban this but then have sex outside marriage. 

[Lee-Sensei]

6 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

What is traditionally considered 'bad' about prostitution though is (among other things) that it is (encouraging) sex outside of marriage. So I do think it is hypocritical for Stannis to want to ban this but then have sex outside marriage. 

That's one thing, but there are others. I think Stannis would probably agree with Theon's description of prostitution in ADWD.

Quote

Washerwoman. That was the polite way of saying "camp follower", which was the polite way of saying "whore". Where they came from, Theon could not say. They just seemed to appear, like maggots on a corpse or ravens after a battle. Every army drew them. Some were hardened whores who could fuck twenty men in a night and drink them all blind. Others looked as innocent as maids, but that was just a trick of their trade. Some were camp brides, bound to soldiers they followed with words whispered to one god or another but doomed to be forgotten once the war was done. They would warm a man's bed by night, patch holes in his boots at morning, cook his supper come dusk, and loot his corpse after the battle. Some even did a bit of washing. With them, oft as not, came bastard children, wretched, filthy creatures born in one camp or the other.

That "some even did a bit of washing" line always gets me. Then there are the potential spread of diseases and I imagine that in the Faith, it's considered immoral to take money for sex. Although Ned does say that Stannis is to "proud in his honor" to cheat or something like that, so it could still be hypocritical on his part.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Lee-Sensei