Israel - Hamas war VIII

[Luzifer's right hand]

31 minutes ago, Relic said:

That's fucking awful, there's no getting around the fact. Gender segregation at a protest is fucking ridiculous as well.

 

The have been emboldened by a lot of people who consider those groups a lesser evil and are willing to look the other way or even march next to them. That only helps extremist groups I believe and won't help the innocent Palestinians at all. Only another way to ensure far right majority governments in Austria and Germany in the near future. 

It might be completely different in Prague though as the Czech Republic is one of those Eastern European countries that have only a very small muslim community.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Luzifer's right hand

[Rippounet]

1 hour ago, Ran said:

Long briefing from Rear Admiral Hagari today on efforts to evacuate people, and then moving to discuss Hamas exploitation of hospitals. Linked from that part here:

TL;DR: Footage showing that the Sheik Hamad Hospital (funded by Qatar), featuring the IDF exposing a tunnel that is part of a Hamas network, and then footage of Hamas fighters inside the hospital shooting a the IDF. Surveillance photos of Indonesian Hospital, revealing evidence that Hamas had tunnels laid in at the site before the rest of the construction, and pointing out underground rocket launchpads within 75m of the hospital building. More intercepts of Gazans discussing the fuel situation and the way Hamas takes fuel from hospitals.

Glad to know that after more than three weeks and over 9000 civilians deaths the IDF can justify one of its 2500 strikes. Of course this changes everything and killing Palestinians is now magically ok.

[Ran]

Similar level of rhetorical logic:

 

[Rippounet]

7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/etoiles-de-david-croix-gammees-et-alertes-a-la-bombe-cette-vague-d-antisemitisme-qui-gangrene-la-france-20231031
@Rippounet do you think this bill will pass.

No.

This kind of idea probable comes from idiots on Israel's payroll. But this would go against feeedom of speech.

[Craving Peaches]

2 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Craving Peaches’ post where they said if the Israelis didn’t give fuel to Gaza babies would die in incubators because there was no power.

It's clear Hamas is not going to supply fuel, so you else do you think is in a position to supply it? Foreign countries. Who controls the entrance of fuel? Israel.

This is what I said earlier:

Quote

As to fuel, babies in incubators and people on life support, as well as those needing kidney dialysis machines and so on are likely going to die if fuel doesn't get in soon. If one feels those deaths are worth avoiding the risk of fuel going to Hamas, that is their opinion, but it is not one I share.

And also it was discussed in that same thread how Hamas didn't use the fuel to make rockets but to power vehicles.

I don't understand the point you are making. No one is trying to absolve Hamas of responsibility for 'stealing fuel'. Rather, people are saying that Israel should let fuel in to avoid deaths of babies in incubators. I would also like to note that the US special envoy David Satterfield said there were 'no recorded instances of Hamas interdicting or seizing aid', according to the Guardian.

[Kalbear]

It's good that Israel is releasing the evidence for their attacks at these hospitals. This is exactly what they need to do going forward and what they should have done at every point previously, regardless of the requirement legally to do so.

Because they have two things going against them: most people do not consider hospitals and schools to be legitimate targets in war, period, and Israel has not been honest in the past.

[Ran]

3 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I would also like to note that the US special envoy David Satterfield said there were 'no recorded instances of Hamas interdicting or seizing aid', according to the Guardian.

In southern Gaza, where the aid is going, no.

Al-Shaifa and Indonesian Hospital are in the north, however, so his comment isn't referring to them.

[Craving Peaches]

Apparently communications and internet services in Gaza have been cut again...

[Rippounet]

11 minutes ago, Ran said:

Similar level of rhetorical logic:

 

Indeed.

[Craving Peaches]

If I may be very critical and cynical, shouldn't we wait for someone to independently verify the IDF footage? With regards to the hospital bombing some of us were quick to accept what was said, rather than waiting for an impartial and objective analysis.

For avoidance of doubt, something like BBC verify, a Channel 4 analysis or Reuters would be my preferred source of verification.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Craving Peaches

[Ran]

People have already geolocated the footage to the Qatari Hospital, since the IDF was kind enough to show enough of the facade in the thermal images.

[Bael's Bastard]

No question Israeli strikes and operations have killed many civilians. Of course, we'll never know how many because Hamas isn't a reliable source for total number killed, or for how many of the killed were Hamas fighters, or for how many civilians were killed by errant Hamas and PIJ rockets, or for how many civilians were killed intentionally by Hamas or PIJ.

Before the time of the al-Ahli bombing which was claimed to kill 500 and has since been pinned firmly on a PIJ rocket, Hamas claimed 2,778 people had been killed. Thus, a single PIJ rocket that caused the al-Ahli bombing alone accounted for 15% of claimed Gazan deaths at that time. As of that same date, the IDF claimed at least 450 of the rockets fired by Hamas and PIJ had landed on Gaza. I appreciate that many are skeptical of IDF claims or numbers. But some number of rockets in this as in previous conflicts have fallen in Gaza.

Again, there is no question that Israeli attacks have killed many Palestinians. But we'll never know for sure how many, because there is no objective source and there is more than enough reason to be skeptical of the total numbers and the numbers of civilian men, women, and children that are uncritically being laid on the IDF based on the word of Hamas. Of course, I don't expect the antizionists in this thread to be skeptical of Hamas' claims, they made up their minds four weeks ago and have been parroting them uncritically ever since.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Bael's Bastard

[kissdbyfire]

I was listening to a pod earlier and Ben Rhodes made a very good point about the orders for civilians (as in non-militants) to go south and the fact that the terrorists blend in w/ the civilian population. Can anyone guess what that point was? 

[Heartofice]

3 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

If I may be very critical and cynical, shouldn't we wait for someone to independently verify the IDF footage? With regards to the hospital bombing some of us were quick to accept what was said, rather than waiting for an impartial and objective analysis.

Agree. I personally won’t believe it till I see an Al Jazeera article with comfirmation from an expert in giant Middle Eastern rabbits, that those tunnels were not made by rodents. 

[Craving Peaches]

Just now, Heartofice said:

Agree. I personally won’t believe it till I see an Al Jazeera article with comfirmation from an expert in giant Middle Eastern rabbits, that those tunnels were not made by rodents. 

Well that won't happen unless you eat something funny before you go to sleep.

I was talking about BBC verify or Channel 4 or Reuters.

[Darzin]

Civilian causalities are horrible but you can't just look at that as a metric, I doubt Nazi Germany managed five figures in terms of American civilian causalities and regardless America killed an order of magnitude more. Yet no one would deny that war was just. Hamas started a war they knew they would lose and are facing the consequences of that. Is it sad that innocent people bare the brunt of their decision yes. The same as the majority of Germans in WWII probably would have accepted peace once their cities started getting reduced to rubble. 

War is a terrible thing which is why unleashing it should be used as a last resort.  But I don't think Hamas can hide behind dead Palestinian babies and more than Hitler could German ones. 

[Ran]

Hagari also noted on several occasions in the briefing that the underlying intelligence and details were shared with the US, UK, and others to let them verify the claims. If they were lying about doing that, you'll be sure to hear from those countries that that is the case.

 

[Craving Peaches]

3 minutes ago, Darzin said:

Yet no one would deny that war was just. 

Overall war? Of course. Individual instances such as the firebombing of Dresden though...

[Zorral]

@Fragile Bird -- Where did you get the idea Jerusalem isn't segregated?

"What I found was a deeply segregated city. There is one set of rules that applies to Jews and another that applies to Palestinians."

A Jewish film maker even did a film about it.

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2019/11/14/shooting-jerusalem-a-glimpse-into-life-in-a-segregated-city

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Israel Quietly Pushed for Egypt to Admit Large Numbers of Gazans
The Israeli government has not publicly called for large numbers of Gazans to move to Egypt. But in private, diplomats say, it has pushed for just that — augmenting Palestinian fears of a permanent expulsion.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/05/world/middleeast/israel-egypt-gaza.html

Quote

 

Israel has quietly tried to build international support in recent weeks for the transfer of several hundred thousand civilians from Gaza to Egypt for the duration of its war in the territory, according to six senior foreign diplomats.

Israeli leaders and diplomats have privately proposed the idea to several foreign governments, framing it as a humanitarian initiative that would allow civilians to temporarily escape the perils of Gaza for refugee camps in the Sinai Desert, just across the border in neighboring Egypt.

The suggestion was dismissed by most of Israel’s interlocutors — who include the United States and Britain — because of the risk that such a mass displacement could become permanent. These countries fear that such a development might destabilize Egypt and lock significant numbers of Palestinians out of their homeland, according to the diplomats, who spoke anonymously in order to discuss a sensitive matter more freely.

The idea has also been firmly rejected by Palestinians, who fear that Israel is using the war — which began on Oct. 7 after terrorists from Gaza raided Israel and killed roughly 1,400 people — to permanently displace the more than two million people living in Gaza.

More than 700,000 Palestinians either fled or were expelled from their homes in what is now Israel during the war surrounding the creation of the state in 1948. Many of their descendants are now warning that the current war will end with a similar “nakba,” or catastrophe, as the 1948 migration is known in Arabic. ....

.... Egypt has rejected the idea of a temporary displacement, let alone a permanent one. A spokesman for the Egyptian government declined to comment for this article, referring instead to a speech made last month by Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, the Egyptian president, that dismissed idea. ....

 

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Relic said:

Those Black Israelite dudes are some of the most toxic people I've ever interacted with. 

I remember the first time I encountered them as a kid with no knowledge they existed. What a trip.