A deep dive into the Purple Wedding (could Sansa have been the poisoner?)

[Frey family reunion]

Part IV: The Wedding.

This is my favorite part of my theory because it adds tremendously to Sansa’s character arc, if true.

But to quickly recap:

Whether or not Olenna had plans to kill Joffrey, those plans did not concern Sansa, Dontos, or Littlefinger.  It would have been too risky, to have included those in a plan to kill the King.

That doesn’t mean, however, that Olenna and Littlefinger didn’t plot to kill someone else at the wedding.  My guess is that these two had a contingency plan to free up Sansa in the event that the Lannisters married her off to one of their own, most probably Tyrion.

And that plan would have to include Sansa, because she would be the one in the best position to surreptitiously poison Tyrion.  So they agree to give Sansa a hairnet with amethyst crystals which look exactly like the Strangler poison.  And in the event that Sansa is forcibly married, Olenna will exchange one of those crystals with the Strangler poison, and all Sansa has to do is drop it in Tyrion’s food or drink.  

The Strangler will make it look like to all present that Tyrion choked on his food.  So no suspicion should be drawn towards anyone.  

Unbeknownst to Olenna, Petyr had his own plans for Sansa.  And his plan included using the distraction of Tyrion’s death for Sansa to flee with Dontos into his ship, thus double crossing the Tyrells.  

However, as the wedding approaches, Sansa remains unmarried, and then is told that after Joffrey’s wedding, she’ll be taken to Highgarden.  Now all of a sudden Sansa has little interest with running off with Dontos on the day of the wedding.  She wants to go to Highgarden.  And if Sansa’s not married, Olenna has no motivation to help poison Tyrion at the weddding.

She makes the mistake of telling Dontos and word gets back to Petyr, who decides he needs to prompt the Lannisters into acting, because he needs that distraction at the wedding to seize Sansa for himself.  (And he probably also very much wants Tyrion dead).

So he tells the Small Council about Olenna’s plans for Sansa, which prompts the Lannisters into rushing their marriage plans for Tyrion and Sansa.

Now, Sansa is forced into a marriage with someone who is ugly, a dwarf, disfigured,  generally despised, and a member of the family that has destroyed her family.  Now is when Dontos would have fully filled Sansa in on the plan, because now, she would be properly motivated to do what they wanted her to do. 

Dontos tells Sansa that at Joffrey’s wedding, Olenna is going to replace one of the crystals in her hairnet.  She needs to drop that replaced crystal into Tyrion’s food or drink.  And then when the party goers are distracted she is going to run to a hollowed tree, change clothes, and Dontos will get her out of King’s Landing.  She’ll be free of King’s Landing and her marriage.

Whether or not they specifically tell Sansa that she will be given poison is unknown, but my guess is Sansa is smart enough to figure this on her own.  So as the wedding approaches she knows what she needs to do, to get out of her marriage, and prevent herself from being turned into a Lannister.

Olenna greets Sansa, and fiddles with her hairnet, replacing one of the stones with the Strangler poison, and in doing so she reminds Sansa of her brother’s murder, her promise to take her to Highgarden and all the food that Tyrion is going to eat.

As the first dish is served, Tyrion notices that Sansa fiddles with her hair.  

Quote

Sansa tasted a spoonful of soup and pushed the bowl away.  “Not to your liking, my lady?” Tyrion asked.

”There’s to be so much, my lord.  I have a little tummy.”  She fiddled nervously with her hair and looked down the table to where Joffrey sat with his Tyrell queen.

This is when Sansa removes the poison that Olenna put in her hairnet.  

Tyrion even notices that Sansa appears unusually distracted but chalks it up to everything that Sansa has gone through.

Quote

     Tyrion turned to his wife. “So which did you prefer?”
      Sansa blinked at him. “My lord?” 

        “The singers. Which did you prefer?”
            “I … I’m sorry, my lord. I was not listening.”
            She was not eating, either. “Sansa, is aught amiss?” He spoke without thinking, and instantly felt the fool. All her kin are slaughtered and she’s wed to me, and I wonder what’s amiss.

What I think Tyrion really noticed was Sansa trying to summon up the courage to poison him.

Then out come the jousting dwarves.  Petyr later tells Sansa that he was the one who convinced Joffrey to hire the dwarves for the wedding.  Petyr claims it was just a lark on Tyrion, but I think Petyr had a more insidious reason for the dwarves.

Littlefinger had to know that despite the motivation Sansa had to get rid of her husband, she might not be able to go through with it.  So in Littlefinger’s mind, he thought he would give her an added incentive.

In shaming Tyrion by making a mockery with the dwarves, he truly wanted to further shame Sansa over the fact that she was married to Tyrion.  Petyr thought that this might make it easier for Sansa to act, to rid herself of this embarrassment of a husband.

But this is where I think that Petyr shows that he truly doesn’t know Sansa.  While Sansa is indeed very status conscious and perhaps a tad bit shallow, deep down that’s not the proper motivation to use to prompt her to finally act.  She’s truly not that shallow a person.

But one thing did happen at the party, that perhaps would have prompted Sansa to finally act and drop the poison in Tyrion’s food or wine.

She noticed that Ilyn Payne no longer had Ice.

Quote

“Sansa stirred in her seat. “What sword is that?”
            Tyrion’s eyes still stung from the wine. He blinked and looked again. Ser Ilyn’s greatsword was as long and wide as Ice, but it was too silvery-bright; Valyrian steel had a darkness to it, a smokiness in its soul.  Sansa clutched his arm.  “What has Ser Ilyn done with my father’s sword?”

And boom goes the dynamite.  Sansa would have put 2 and 2 together and realized that Joffrey’s new Valyrian sword, was made from her family’s sword being destroyed and turned into a Lannister sword.

And then she realizes that the same thing is happening to her.  The Lannisters have broken her and were in the process of making her into one of them.  Just like Ice.

If there was a motivation for Sansa to act, it would have been then, when the pie was served.  If she had decided to go ahead at that point and drop the poison it would have been in Tyrion’s pie.

And then Joffrey comes along and eats it.

Of course the other possibility, is that even with the motivation that Ice’s fate gives Sansa, that might still not have been enough for her to poison Tyrion.  After all, out of all the Lannisters, Tyrion was easily the one that was the kindest to her.  So even then perhaps her hand is stayed.

And then Joffrey comes and puts his wine goblet down on the table in front of Tyrion and thus in front of her.

And if there was one person alive that could drive Sansa to murder it was him.  And she was the only one who would have the opportunity and access to Joffrey’s goblet at the time he was murdered.

My next part is the after math, and the moment that Sansa represses the enormity of what she did.

Edited February 6 by Frey family reunion

[Frey family reunion]

On 2/2/2024 at 9:35 PM, Alma11 said:

I don't know, I understand your point and it'd be interesting if Joffrey died for an unfortunate coincidence and the real target was Tyrion, but why Oleanna would want Tyrion dead? To make Sansa a widow and take control of Winterfell, you'd say. And it would make sense. But why make her run away with Littlefinger, then? If Oleanna wanted to wed Sansa to her nephew, why let her escape? Unless Littlefinger betrayed her and, without her knowing, instructed Dontos to take Sansa away. But if this was indeed the original plan, what Oleanna would get to give Sansa to Littlefinger and let him wed her to a noble of the Vale? Besides, it would have been risky to kill Tyrion anyway, because then Tywin could have married her to another Lannister man before Oleanna could carry out her plan.

Sorry, I meant to respond to your post earlier and I got sidetracked.  I don’t think Olenna had any idea about Petyr’s plan to smuggle Sansa out of King’s Landing.  I think she believed that it would appear that Tyrion choked on his food, and then they take her to Highgarden the next day to get married.  

Unbeknownst to Olenna, Petyr planned on using the Tyrion’s death as the distraction to get Sansa into his ship and to the Vale, conveniently now unmarried for his plans for her.  In other words, Petyr was planning on using Olenna to help poison Tyrion and then double crossing her.  

I think Olenna was confident enough in the strength of her house (and her army) especially after the marriage of Margaery to Joffrey, that she wasn’t planning on asking permission for leaving with Sansa, she was just going to do it.

Which is why the Lannisters hurried up and married Tyrion to Sansa, they knew if push came to shove they really couldn’t stop the Tyrells from taking Sansa to Highgarden.

[Frey family reunion]

On 2/4/2024 at 10:33 AM, Melifeather said:

Sansa thinks the stones are black amethysts from Asshai, that Dontos told her the hair net was magic, and she worried that Dontos had lied to her. That doesn't sound like someone that knew what the hairnet's purpose truly was.

That’s going to be the next and I think final part of my theory.  Sansa repressed what she did.  And I think George gives us the exact moment when she represses what she did.  I think George is using Sansa often to play the part of the unreliable narrator.  And in this case, it was a mental defense mechanism for Sansa.  She couldn’t handle what she did, so she represses it into her subconscious.

[John Suburbs]

1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

Sorry, I meant to respond to your post earlier and I got sidetracked.  I don’t think Olenna had any idea about Petyr’s plan to smuggle Sansa out of King’s Landing.  I think she believed that it would appear that Tyrion choked on his food, and then they take her to Highgarden the next day to get married.  

Unbeknownst to Olenna, Petyr planned on using the Tyrion’s death as the distraction to get Sansa into his ship and to the Vale, conveniently now unmarried for his plans for her.  In other words, Petyr was planning on using Olenna to help poison Tyrion and then double crossing her.  

I think Olenna was confident enough in the strength of her house (and her army) especially after the marriage of Margaery to Joffrey, that she wasn’t planning on asking permission for leaving with Sansa, she was just going to do it.

Which is why the Lannisters hurried up and married Tyrion to Sansa, they knew if push came to shove they really couldn’t stop the Tyrells from taking Sansa to Highgarden.

I doubt it would be the next day. Sansa would be in mourning, so it would be very inappropriate to go visiting. Three months at minimum.

But on top of that, Tywin already knows the Olenna tried to bring Sansa to Highgarden, and why. So I would be very surprised if he didn't keep a close eye on her now that she's eligible again.

This is why I can only conclude that Olenna knew all about Sansa's escape. Yes, Petyr now has her, but better him than Tywin.

[Melifeather]

On 2/6/2024 at 9:38 AM, Frey family reunion said:

Actually killing Joffrey didn’t create a power struggle.  If anything it lessened the chaos.  Because Tommen becomes King and Tywin becomes the regent.  So nothing about the power dynamics changes, Joffrey’s death just puts Tywin firmly in charged and Tywin is someone that is not easily manipulated.  (Unlike Joffrey).

But there was chaos and it created a domino effect that ended up with Cersei demoted and Kevan's death.

It starts with Cersei as Queen Regent being disgusted by her youngest son's meek and tractable nature. Kevan Lannister refuses to be Tommen's Hand if Cersei doesn't release her regency. Harys Swift becomes Hand instead. Mace Tyrell insists that Tommen marry Margaery. Arianne Martell plots to crown Myrcella Lannister. Doran Martell plots to ally Dorne with Daenerys and Young Griff. Cersei secretly tasks men with assassinating Lord Commander Jon Snow. Margaery wins Tommen's affections with kittens and sweet words, putting a wedge between him and his mother. Cersei tasks Ser Osney Kettleblack to seduce Margaery. Cersei allows the Faith Militant  to reform, engineers Margaret's arrest, but that backfires when they arrest her too for treason and adultery and make her walk naked to shame her. Before she's arrested she makes Tommen watch as she has his whipping boy Pate be beaten until he bleeds, all because he had the audacity to side with Margaery. While she's held prisoner Tommen is under the control of the Small Council. Kevan Lannister comes back as Hand now that Cersei has lost most of her support. Oh yeah, and Cersei refuses to repay the crown's debt which leads the Bank of Braavos to  lend support to Stannis. I'd say the apple cart is more than upset.

Tywin's murder was an important event, but lets not forget who helped Tyrion escape - of course it was Varys and not Littlefinger, but I don't think either "spider" minded his murder one little bit.

Edited February 7 by Melifeather

[Melifeather]

On 2/6/2024 at 3:07 PM, Frey family reunion said:

Dontos tells Sansa that at Joffrey’s wedding, Olenna is going to replace one of the crystals in her hairnet.  She needs to drop that replaced crystal into Tyrion’s food or drink.  And then when the party goers are distracted she is going to run to a hollowed tree, change clothes, and Dontos will get her out of King’s Landing.  She’ll be free of King’s Landing and her marriage.

 

Two problems with this. The first I've already mentioned: Sansa doesn't recall any of this or rather her thoughts are one of shock and fear at discovering that a stone is missing. The second problem is locating the correct stone in a hairnet of several stones. You can google "mesh wire hairnet with stones" and many pictures will pop up to get an idea. The book describes the hairnet:

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Sansa VIII

"You've waited so long, be patient awhile longer. Here, I have something for you." Ser Dontos fumbled in his pouch and drew out a silvery spiderweb, dangling it between his thick fingers.

It was a hair net of fine-spun silver, the strands so thin and delicate the net seemed to weigh no more than a breath of air when Sansa took it in her fingers. Small gems were set wherever two strands crossed, so dark they drank the moonlight. "What stones are these?"

"Black amethysts from Asshai. The rarest kind, a deep true purple by daylight."

 

In other words, very delicate spidery web-like strands of wire. The stones must have been very numerous and tiny to be attached wherever two strands crossed. Lady Olenna had to fiddle around quite a bit in order to detach (or as you suggest,  replace) a single stone. How would Sansa be able to find that exact stone again? And why wouldn't it just fall out of the setting?

[Aebram]

Excuse me for going off topic, but:

Quote

Cersei secretly tasks men with assassinating Lord Commander Jon Snow. 

This is a new one on me. Where is the evidence please?

[LongRider]

2 hours ago, Aebram said:

This is a new one on me. Where is the evidence please?

Planned, but did not happen.

A Feast for Crows - Cersei IV
(the scene is a meeting of the small council, discussing that Jon Snow has been made the new Lord Commander)

Grand Maester Pycelle nodded ponderously. "I propose that we inform Castle Black that no more men will be sent to them until such time as Snow is gone."
"Our new dromonds will need oarsmen," said Aurane Waters. "Let us instruct the lords to send their poachers and thieves to me henceforth, instead of to the Wall."
Qyburn leaned forward with a smile. "The Night's Watch defends us all from snarks and grumkins. My lords, I say that we must help the brave black brothers."
Cersei gave him a sharp look. "What are you saying?"
"This," Qyburn said. "For years now, the Night's Watch has begged for men. Lord Stannis has answered their plea. Can King Tommen do less? His Grace should send the Wall a hundred men. To take the black, ostensibly, but in truth . . ."
". . . to remove Jon Snow from the command," Cersei finished, delighted. I knew I was right to want him on my council. "That is just what we shall do." She laughed. If this bastard boy is truly his father's son, he will not suspect a thing. Perhaps he will even thank me, before the blade slides between his ribs. "It will need to be done carefully, to be sure. Leave the rest to me, my lords." This was how an enemy should be dealt with: with a dagger, not a declaration. "We have done good work today, my lords. I thank you. Is there aught else?"<<<<<<<<<<<

[Melifeather]

2 hours ago, Aebram said:

Excuse me for going off topic, but:

This is a new one on me. Where is the evidence please?

A Feast for Crows - Cersei IV

Cersei gave him a sharp look. "What are you saying?"

"This," Qyburn said. "For years now, the Night's Watch has begged for men. Lord Stannis has answered their plea. Can King Tommen do less? His Grace should send the Wall a hundred men. To take the black, ostensibly, but in truth . . ."

". . . to remove Jon Snow from the command," Cersei finished, delighted. I knew I was right to want him on my council. "That is just what we shall do." She laughed. If this bastard boy is truly his father's son, he will not suspect a thing. Perhaps he will even thank me, before the blade slides between his ribs. "It will need to be done carefully, to be sure. Leave the rest to me, my lords." This was how an enemy should be dealt with: with a dagger, not a declaration. "We have done good work today, my lords. I thank you. Is there aught else?"

[Melifeather]

Ninja’s by LongRider! 

[LongRider]

3 minutes ago, Melifeather said:

Ninja’s by LongRider! 

   I'm not sure of the rest of the story, wasn't the plan that the Kettlback who got arrested for fooling around with Margery was the one who was to be sent to the Wall with a 100 man escort?  Didn't quite work out that way, oppsie.

[Melifeather]

The thing about Feast and Dance are they were actually written as one big book that got split - and not neatly down the middle. You almost need to shuffle the chapters together like a deck of cards. I believe someone put together a timeline of chapters so that you can read them in order of events.

[LynnS]

@Frey family reunion  How would Olenna or Sansa know which crystal in the hairnet was the strangler?  Assuming that there was only one and you can't tell the difference between the poison crystal and amethyst?

[the trees have eyes]

7 hours ago, LynnS said:

@Frey family reunion  How would Olenna or Sansa know which crystal in the hairnet was the strangler?  Assuming that there was only one and you can't tell the difference between the poison crystal and amethyst?

TBF that's always been a problem with how GRRM set up the hairnet rather than any theory about the poisoner - it makes for great drama but isn't very practical.  I'm reluctant to think the whole hairnet was a treasure trove of poison given how rare and expensive I assume The Strangler to be (and the problem of Sansa being present for hours at the wedding and feast with all that poison on display for Oberyn / Pycelle / AN Other to spot). 

[Melifeather]

If the hairnet strands are very thin the stones would be tiny. Tiny black or purple stones shouldn't cry out "poison!" IMO, lol. And Sansa has already established a precedent wearing hairnets at court since Joffrey gave her the moonstone hairnet back in Clash. That one too must have looked slightly purple, because she wore it with a purple gown. Perhaps the strangler hairnet was made to mimic the moonstone one so no one would think it was new?

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Sansa I

Sansa closed the shutters and turned sharply away from the window. "You look very lovely today, my lady," Ser Arys said.

"Thank you, ser." Knowing that Joffrey would require her to attend the tourney in his honor, Sansa had taken special care with her face and clothes. She wore a gown of pale purple silk and a moonstone hair net that had been a gift from Joffrey. The gown had long sleeves to hide the bruises on her arms. Those were Joffrey's gifts as well. When they told him that Robb had been proclaimed King in the North, his rage had been a fearsome thing, and he had sent Ser Boros to beat her.

 

 

Edited February 8 by Melifeather

[Melifeather]

11 hours ago, LongRider said:

Planned, but did not happen.

How can you be certain Qyburn's plan and Jon's stabbing are not connected? Those chapters would have been closer together had the two books not split in two. 

I've been trying to find any text that includes the hundred men sent by Qyburn. Was there a black brother that shepherded them to the Wall? Ser Alliser had been in Kings Landing at one time when he brought the wight hand in a jar in Clash and back at the Wall and friends with Janos Slynt in Storm. No mention of him at all in Feast. Cersei told Kettleblack that he'd have a hundred men to kill Jon. There were three Kettleblacks: Osney, Osfryd, and Osmund. Osney becomes a prisoner of the High Septon, and Osfryd and Osmund were arrested by Kevan Lannister who plans to send them to the Wall if they confess. So we just don't know if or when the hundred men left or who led them. But do we have proof that they never left?

[LynnS]

3 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

TBF that's always been a problem with how GRRM set up the hairnet rather than any theory about the poisoner - it makes for great drama but isn't very practical.  I'm reluctant to think the whole hairnet was a treasure trove of poison given how rare and expensive I assume The Strangler to be (and the problem of Sansa being present for hours at the wedding and feast with all that poison on display for Oberyn / Pycelle / AN Other to spot). 

If the question is:  could she have been the poisoner;  how does she get the poison?  To make this work; the hairnet would have to be all strangler crystals and I suppose they would have to be inactive in their crystal form but fragile to handle?  Or Olenna wold have had to pass the crystal on to Sansa by dropping it into her hair to be retrieved.  There doesn't seem to be anything that points to a conversation about it.   Would Sansa be psychologically capable of carrying this out either consciously or unconsiously? I suppose so, but it's a stretch.

Whatever happed to the hairnet?  I forget.  Did Littlefinger toss it overboard?

[LongRider]

10 minutes ago, Melifeather said:

I've been trying to find any text that includes the hundred men sent by Qyburn.

A hundred men from south of the Wall did not arrive at the Wall any time before the attack on Jon.   Also, while I would love to discuss this, it's off topic for this thread.  I am enjoying the original topic of the thread and do not want to see the thread derailed.  Thanks for your understanding.

[LongRider]

1 minute ago, LynnS said:

Whatever happed to the hairnet?  I forget. 

She put it in the pocket of her cloak while making her escape to the boat.   

[LynnS]

32 minutes ago, LongRider said:

She put it in the pocket of her cloak while making her escape to the boat.   

Oh, I see.  If it had been thrown overboard, you could surmise that it was a hairnet of poison and dissolving it in the sea was an effective way to get rid of it.  So potentially, Sansa still has a hairnet of poisons she can use?  Now that she has evolved from the caged songbird to the mockingbird; who knows what Littlefinger's apprentice  will do. 

But I think it more likely that Olenna and Littlefinger cooked this up together and part of the bargain was that Littlefinger gets Sansa.  So potentially, Olenna knows where Sansa is and who's she's pretending to be.  Fiddling with the hairnet may have been a subtle push, for Sansa to use the escape route, being made available to her,  when the time came to run.