Footy Time!

[cteresa]

[quote name='Maltaran' post='1369576' date='May 24 2008, 17.11']It used to be that Hull were the largest city in Europe to have never had a football team in their nation's top division. Research is now required to work out who now holds that title.[/quote]

Depends on definition of city and how close a team must be, but Sintra probably has a shot.

[Black Wizard]

At half-time in the Scottish Cup Final Rangers were leading 2-0, but in the first ten minutes of the second half Queen od the South pulled it level. :eek: Unfortunately though. Rangers went on to score a winner.

[Jon AS]

[quote name='Maltaran']It used to be that Hull were the largest city in Europe to have never had a football team in their nation's top division. Research is now required to work out who now holds that title.[/quote]

Are you sure about that? According to Wikipedia it has a population of less than 300000, doesn't seem that big.

In Germany it's a bit convoluted, since there only has been a unified national league (i.e. one that is not split into multiple groups) since the sixties, but I'd guess Bonn (with more than 300000 inhabitants, 19th in Germany) has a good chance of claiming that title on a national level.

[Zoë Sumra]

[url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/may/21/1The%20Knowledge%5b/url"]The Knowledge[/url] provided a link to a good rebuttal of the Hull thing on Hull's fan site, [url="http://www.hullcityonline.com/news/loadroll.asp?cid=EDZ1&id=392608"]here[/url].

[Jon AS]

Ah, hadn't even thought of Russia myself.

So Chelsea have sacked Grant? Who will replace him, I wonder? I hear Jose Mourinho is available...

[Black Wizard]

Sven Goran Eriksson will be Chelsea manager.


Jon AS, hasn't there only been a unified national league in Germany since the Berlin Wall was taken down?

[Padraig]

[quote name='Black Wizard' post='1369768' date='May 24 2008, 21.59']Jon AS, hasn't there only been a unified national league in Germany since the Berlin Wall was taken down?[/quote]
Heh. :P

[Jon AS]

[quote name='Black Wizard']Jon AS, hasn't there only been a unified national league in Germany since the Berlin Wall was taken down?[/quote]

:rofl:

To give a more serious answer: true, but that whole point is not relevant as the two minutes I spend researching the facts revealed that all of the eastern cities bigger than Bonn have clubs that have played in either the GDR Oberliga or the Bundesliga (usually both, actually).

[Maltaran]

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1369724' date='May 24 2008, 20.51']Ah, hadn't even thought of Russia myself.

So Chelsea have sacked Grant? Who will replace him, I wonder? I hear Jose Mourinho is available...[/quote]

Hiddink, Rijkaard and Eriksson are the front-runners, according to the BBC

[mormont]

[quote name='Maltaran' post='1370122' date='May 25 2008, 08.37']Hiddink, Rijkaard and Eriksson are the front-runners, according to the BBC[/quote]

Although I'm sure the massive pay packet will help, I would imagine they'll think carefully before accepting. Whoever gets the job now has had the terms made absolutely clear: the minimum requirement to avoid getting sacked is to win the league and the expectation is winning the CL - in your first season. Everything else, including domestic cup success, is irrelevant. This has to be the most demanding job in football in those terms: even more so than managing Real or Barca.

[BLU-RAY]

[quote name='mormont' post='1370132' date='May 25 2008, 00.34']Although I'm sure the massive pay packet will help, I would imagine they'll think carefully before accepting. Whoever gets the job now has had the terms made absolutely clear: the minimum requirement to avoid getting sacked is to win the league and the expectation is winning the CL - in your first season. Everything else, including domestic cup success, is irrelevant. This has to be the most demanding job in football in those terms: even more so than managing Real or Barca.[/quote]

Eh, I doubt it. Avram Grant had a much greater task simply because he's Avram Grant; many of these other guys will get some leniency based upon their names.

Though, actually, you might be right; they did give Grant something like a 4-year extension earlier, so it's possible they'll be on short leashes.

The other issue is the players that they will have; who will Chelsea lose this offseason? I'm worried they won't be as good of a team next year, which will make improving upon their close calls this year more difficult.

[Jon AS]

[quote name='DVD ROTS']Eh, I doubt it. Avram Grant had a much greater task simply because he's Avram Grant; many of these other guys will get some leniency based upon their names.[/quote]

Actually I see it the other way around: Grant overperformed in the eyes of most people, so any big name manager will be expected to achieve [i]more[/i].

[quote name='DVD ROTS']The other issue is the players that they will have; who will Chelsea lose this offseason? I'm worried they won't be as good of a team next year, which will make improving upon their close calls this year more difficult.[/quote]

A known manager and Abramovich's money should ensure Chelsea will have a competitive team next season. If the new guy can't put together a team capable of challenging for titles with the resources at his disposal, he should be sacked before the season gets underway. ;)

ETA: Okay, I just read [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/7418874.stm"]this[/url] BBC article on the subject and Glenn Hoddle's comments are just priceless.

[quote]And Hoddle believes that another foreign manager is likely to replace Grant as they are more likely to be comfortable with such an influential club owner.

"That is a foreign concept isn't it?" said Hoddle. "And maybe these guys are a little bit more used to having that input for a chairman or a president.[/quote]

Yes, the reason no Englishman is going to be considered for the job is because no true English manager would put up with Abramovich's meddling. :lol:

[cteresa]

Eriksson, why would he be a frontrunner? He was talked for us, but we are sentimental about some finals in the early 90s, and let me face it, can not hire a few other bigger names. I will take your word he surprised positively in Manchester City, but that might be more because you were all (unfairly IMO) thinking nill and awful while he managed England. He was not that bad managing England, but IMO he has not had that great a sucess with Manchester City either - regarding things like holding on and making players evolve, looks like it was a quite unstable team which could consistently progress. A couple weeks ago I read an interesting opinion article, about why he was so sucessfull with us way back in pre history ( late80s-early90s) and how he introduced fast defense-attack and attack-defense transitions to portuguese football, but right now not sure if Eriksson has any longer any surprises or innovations to bring in. Abramovich can afford better. IMO. Hiddink OTOH there is a problem there, if Russia does well in the euro annexing Hiddink to Chelsea will not be popular in Russia ( and Abramovich might care as much for Russia as for Chelsea); if Russia does disappointingly then Hiddink is "burnt" and will not be that brilliant a choice for Chelsea.

Other names dunno, but Jon seriously, Mourinho is not that impossible :P Mourinho reportedly has been talking about football with Abramovich for quite a bit ( in what language heaven knows), ow Abramovich offered Mourinho a very special Ferrari. And thinking about it, even Bosingwa is just Mourinho´s favourite sort of candy :) I don´t think it will happen, but Mourinho is funny in that his "fights" with people are public and juicy soap-operaish but then 6 months later great friends in life. Apart obviously from Porto´s president and his mafia :smash:

[Paddy]

I think that a new, big manager will get more leniency.
Remember that it's repeatedly reported that Abramovich wants Chelsea to play with far more verve and excitement than they did under Mourinho.
They didn't really get that under Grant, but Rijkaard?? He may not win it in his first season, but if he gets Chelsea playing like he did Barcelona a few seasons ago, he wont be kicked out.

His sacking makes me sure that Grant was always just caretaker manager - of sorts - even if some at Chelsea were kidding themselves to it. The contract extension thing, I suspect was just a way to stop the speculation that he was just a caretaker manager to unsettle the situation at the club.
I say of sorts, because I reckon that the board were leaving their option open. If Grant did the unexpected and won them trophies, they'd probably have stuck with him, i think - i reckon they aren't [i]that[/i] much Real Madrid. But I do think that the board always felt that what they'd take as acceptible results from Grant would be far higher than what they'll give to another coach, who they will expect to turn the team into a spectacle (in a good way).

And if they achieve that while being contenders who fall at the last hurdle in their first season or so, i think the board will be happy.
Peter Kenyon is not a stupid man. He knows how history has shown that results have always come from stability in England (and probably everywhere except Real Madrid) and he's not just going to let the board axe every manager until they find one who wins the CL or PL in their first season.

[mormont]

[quote name='Paddiano Ronaldo' post='1370193' date='May 25 2008, 13.13']Peter Kenyon is not a stupid man. He knows how history has shown that results have always come from stability in England (and probably everywhere except Real Madrid) and he's not just going to let the board axe every manager until they find one who wins the CL or PL in their first season.[/quote]

I think it's optimistic to claim that either Peter Kenyon, or for that matter the board, have any say in who manages Chelsea. ;)

[The Inquisitor]

[quote name='mormont' post='1370198' date='May 25 2008, 14.42']I think it's optimistic to claim that either Peter Kenyon, or for that matter the board, have any say in who manages Chelsea. ;)[/quote]


Yes, I was dumbfounded by that... I don't know why, but I kept on reading Pyotr Kenyovski there.

[Paddy]

[quote name='mormont' post='1370198' date='May 25 2008, 13.42']I think it's optimistic to claim that either Peter Kenyon, or for that matter the board, have any say in who manages Chelsea. ;)[/quote]
heh, I suppose.
Thinking of your own club's experience in the matter, maybe there's something with the new rich Russian owners needing to have direct influence on their club's footballing matters.
For whatever reason, I had thought that Abrahmovic was better at letting the other people at the club do their jobs.
Quite likely, that's only because he's been so much more subtle in comparison with Vladimir Romanov :P

It's also quite surprising given that I've heard time and again that Grant is/was a personal friend of Abrahmovic.

[mormont]

[quote name='Paddiano Ronaldo' post='1370243' date='May 25 2008, 15.56']Thinking of your own club's experience in the matter, maybe there's something with the new rich Russian owners needing to have direct influence on their club's footballing matters.[/quote]

Yeah. They paid for the toys and they want to play with them. :P

[quote]Quite likely, that's only because he's been so much more subtle in comparison with Vladimir Romanov :P[/quote]

More low-profile, certainly. And less insane.

[quote]It's also quite surprising given that I've heard time and again that Grant is/was a personal friend of Abrahmovic.[/quote]

Apparently Grant's quite bitter about it, though Abramovich did have the decency to do the deed personally. I guess it shows that people who believe friendship is beyond price just don't have enough money. ;)

[lessthanluke]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY8TO_5G6Vs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY8TO_5G6Vs[/url]

[cteresa]

[quote name='Paddiano Ronaldo' post='1370193' date='May 25 2008, 13.13']Remember that it's repeatedly reported that Abramovich wants Chelsea to play with far more verve and excitement than they did under Mourinho.[/quote]
Reported. Meaning, no quotes on video from anybody important. Maybe it was just all about not winning the CL. I dunno quite what is verve or excitement, maybe I am just traumatized or something, but if it comes to it, winning is far better than losing with verve and excitement. The whole Mourinho was fired over the way they play always seemed a bit of a british media thing than truly believable.

[quote name='Paddiano Ronaldo' post='1370193' date='May 25 2008, 13.13']They didn't really get that under Grant, but Rijkaard?? He may not win it in his first season, but if he gets Chelsea playing like he did Barcelona a few seasons ago, he wont be kicked out.[/quote]
If it was my toy and he got Chelsea playing like Barcelona did these last couple of seasons he would indeed get fired. But you are right about something, people got deadlines extended due to past reputations, Rijkaard deserves more time and inherent respect than Grant did.

[quote name='Paddiano Ronaldo' post='1370193' date='May 25 2008, 13.13']T
And if they achieve that while being contenders who fall at the last hurdle in their first season or so, i think the board will be happy.[/quote]
Again, maybe I am spoiled ( by expectations, not results obviously) but falling at the last hurdle is just not an acceptable result. It can happen, you work along from it, don´t let it get you down. But to think it acceptable, no it is not, specially not when Chelsea got far more resources than other clubs.

[quote name='Paddiano Ronaldo' post='1370193' date='May 25 2008, 13.13']Peter Kenyon is not a stupid man. He knows how history has shown that results have always come from stability in England[/quote]

That was then this is now. Mourinho won the premiership ( and the CL) at first try. His two semifinals failures are understandable but so is the fact Abramovich got frustratred with it eventually. And IMO I got like no sympathy for Grant getting fired, financially I am sure he is far ahead of what he was last year, and let´s remember he was imposed on Mourinho as something ( technical director?) against Mourinho´s will, because he was Abramovich´s friend. He was brought on as reserve, to take the place of the guy he was supposed to assist. Grant got lucky, got Mourinho´s jobs, which let me tell you, he was just not qualified to. He had not even the proper UEFA qualifications, he carried on from the psychological and technical work that had been left. He risked it and was very close to working it out. It did not, he took the risk, he lost, don´t worry about him, he is far more famous and richer than he would ever be before. In football being very good, or being good value for money or being almost almost the best is not enough. It´s the little bit extra you need to be champions and that is what matters. We don´t know how far Mourinho would have taken this team but IMO
- league, I can´t see any team managed by Mourinho tieing two games 4-4. Not possible. One maybe if under special conjunction of the planetsk, but two such games filling in FOUR goals, a Mourinho team? Not Benfica, not União de Leiria, not Porto and not Chelsea. No way.
- His substitutions would have probably been far more effective at the Carling Cup final
- If reports are true about the irreversible fall out with John Terry ( and they seem true, see pointed not mentioning of Terry during praise encouragement to his boys), Terry would probably have been benched for the CL final. The whole mess was reportedly about Terry. No Terry, no mess with Drogba and somebody else to take that 5th penalty kick. The most important pks are 1st and 5th.

so Grant got a chance because he was Abramovich´s friends. Great. It did not work out, so yeah Abramovich has got the right to expect to find somebody better and more qualified. Not sure if there is anybody available better than Mourinho ( maybe, depends..) but with more qualifications and experience than Grant IMO there is plenty.

and yeah, feel free to disregard this as bias, but I am getting pretty crazy about our ( and Inter´s) Pelé, he just had one of the prettiest toughest long distance shots of the year against Roma. That kid will be very special IMO, the foot he has, and a gift of simplicity.