Guest Raidne Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 [quote name='mcbigski' post='1379955' date='Jun 2 2008, 11.15']Either crappy writing and manufactured tension, or Romo was engaged in a deep psychological ploy to get Lee to commit to governing in a manner consistent with Romo's ideals. If I get around to watching it again before the next ep, I'll try to decide. Right now I can't really remember what Romo was bitching about and what Lee said to calm him down.[/quote] Since I have never been even remotely entertained by Romo's psychological ploys, and I found that particular scene to be beyond tedious, that's my vote. However, that doesn't mean it can't [i]also[/i] be crappy writing and/or manufactured tension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Oop North Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 I'll have to watch it again, as I'm not sure exactly why Romo pulled the gun. I figured it had something to do with his psychological issues. He seemed to think that humanity should just suffer and die. To him, Lee would be a Good President who might give humanity hope, which he doesn't think we deserve. At least, I think so. This impression might be totally wrong. Also, Why hasn't Bulldog been conscripted? I want him to find out Tigh is a Cylon and get another pipe smackdown. You can never have too many of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 [quote name='Raidne' post='1379987' date='Jun 2 2008, 11.44']Since I have never been even remotely entertained by Romo's psychological ploys, and I found that particular scene to be beyond tedious, that's my vote.[/quote] Word. Also, why the hell did RDM spend an entire episode on something the viewers could tell was going to happen? As soon as the Quorum began the search for an acceptable president I (and likely anyone else who was conscious) knew that Lee was going to be that guy. Duh. The only thing I liked about this episode was the revelation of Adama as a complete and total hypocrite. When Roslin tried to steal the election from a guy she believed was a Cylon collaborator, Adama gave her a lecture about how she'd die inside. However, it's evidently OK for Adama to use the threat of military noncompliance to veto the ascension of any president he doesn't like. Whoa. Tom Zarek has every right to be angry and suspicious, because in many ways Adama acts like a banana republic strongman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon AS Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 [quote name='Lord of Oop North']Why hasn't Bulldog been conscripted? I want him to find out Tigh is a Cylon and get another pipe smackdown. You can never have too many of those.[/quote] I think the writers want to forget that episode as much as the viewers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 [quote name='Lord of Oop North' post='1379997' date='Jun 2 2008, 10.54']I'll have to watch it again, as I'm not sure exactly why Romo pulled the gun. I figured it had something to do with his psychological issues. He seemed to think that humanity should just suffer and die. To him, Lee would be a Good President who might give humanity hope, which he doesn't think we deserve. At least, I think so. This impression might be totally wrong.[/quote] That's what Romo said. They killed his cat, he went kinda nuts. He thinks humanity deserves to die out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raidne Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 [quote name='Shryke' post='1380035' date='Jun 2 2008, 12.20']That's what Romo said. They killed his cat, he went kinda nuts. He thinks humanity deserves to die out.[/quote] Who are they, exactly? And you're going to take Romo at his word? I can't blame you for blacking out the trial, but still...I get the feeling that we're at least supposed to think he's more clever and devious than all of that. "Humanity is going to hell in a handbasket, and you, Leland Adama, are the only one who can [i]save them[/i]." Apollo is such a Leland. Did we know that was his full name before this episode? If so, I missed it. Leland. Hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 [quote name='Raidne' post='1380045' date='Jun 2 2008, 11.30']Who are they, exactly? And you're going to take Romo at his word? I can't blame you for blacking out the trial, but still...I get the feeling that we're at least supposed to think he's more clever and devious than all of that. "Humanity is going to hell in a handbasket, and you, Leland Adama, are the only one who can [i]save them[/i]." Apollo is such a Leland. Did we know that was his full name before this episode? If so, I missed it. Leland. Hehe.[/quote] They? Some random thugs/people on his ship obviously. And that's his STATED reason anyway. It might be more accurate to say, he thinks humanity is going to hell, and he pulled the gun on Lee to make him finally step the fuck up and do something about it. Lee's always been a passive, "go with the flow" fucker until the very last minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raidne Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 [quote name='Shryke' post='1380053' date='Jun 2 2008, 12.34']Lee's always been a passive, "go with the flow" fucker until the very last minute.[/quote] No, he's the person who not conscious of his own ambition - the type that can finally bridge the Socrates paradox of leadership in the Republic!!! The perfect leader doesn't want to be a leader, and won't lead. The person who wants to be a leader wants it for the wrong reasons and shouldn't lead. But the person who [i]unconsciously[/i] wants to be a leader will do it for the right reasons (???) and [i]will[/i] lead if properly manipulated by the most brilliant defense attorney of our time!!!! A 2000 year old conundrum, finally solved by the brilliant writers of Battlestar Galactica! ETA: A charitable interpretation of the head cat thing would mean that it supposed to explain something about HeadSix and HeadBaltar phenomenon. But I can't imagine what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormon Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Is anyone else expecting Lee to make an impassioned speech to the last group of survivors right before the Cylons attack, then jump into his Viper and lead the attack personally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raidne Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 [quote name='Bormon' post='1380104' date='Jun 2 2008, 12.58']Is anyone else expecting Lee to make an impassioned speech to the last group of survivors right before the Cylons attack, then jump into his Viper and lead the attack personally?[/quote] Kind of, but it's possible that even Emmerich hires better writers that the BSG staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Eh, I figured it was a little "mind fuck" type plot device + a subtle "Projection => Romo could be the last Cylon" type clue. And Lee knowing what he wants, but not going for it is pretty standard at this point. The only thing I can figure is Romo's gun pulling schtick was a crazy mans way of getting Lee to get the fuck off his ass and lead like he knows he wants to and is capable of. I figure he'd try and refuse the honour if Romo had told him straight up "You should be the interim President". Not that it was a great scene or anything. But it might make sense to a crazy man like Romo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbigski Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 [quote name='TrackerNeil' post='1380016' date='Jun 2 2008, 12.06']Word. Also, why the hell did RDM spend an entire episode on something the viewers could tell was going to happen? As soon as the Quorum began the search for an acceptable president I (and likely anyone else who was conscious) knew that Lee was going to be that guy. Duh.[/quote] Somehow I doubt RDM was going for "Lee Adama is Dick Cheney". But as soon as Lee decided to lead the search committee, I knew what the result would be. Cheney, of course, was tasked by Bush in 2000 to chair the committee that would select Bush's running mate. Its very predictibility would tend to support the need for manufactured drama to compensate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crow's Eye Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 [quote name='Shryke' post='1380053' date='Jun 2 2008, 11.34']They? Some random thugs/people on his ship obviously. And that's his STATED reason anyway. It might be more accurate to say, he thinks humanity is going to hell, and he pulled the gun on Lee to make him finally step the fuck up and do something about it. Lee's always been a passive, "go with the flow" fucker until the very last minute.[/quote] That was my impression during the whole thing. He was definitely losing it - somehow related to the dead/imaginary cat and its connection to the rest of his family - and saw in Lee someone he believed could be a president respected by the Quorum (i.e., not a Roslin-like dictator) and still work with the military. I think he knew that a power vacuum at the top (caused, in part, by the Admiral's refusal to recognize Zarek) would, without doubt, doom the fleet, or at least the semblance of a functioning society they created (hence, the "save them" comments). Tigh impregnating the Cylon? Not so surprised, really, as I had always assumed something else was going on there when he was cutting off the camera. It's not hard to invision, actually, given his mental state and the fact that he's seeing Ellen's face and hearing her voice when talking to the Six. But when Cottle said that the Six was pregnant, I assumed that he meant the dead one he was just examining, and didn't realize it had anything to do with Tigh/Six until the Tigh/Adama scene. As for Adama leaving, I thought this was the most implausible part of the episode. He's already questioning Tigh's judgment (and his past leadership shows that there are many, many problems there) and now he leaves the entire fleet in his hands? Not buying it, really. There are lots of ways they could have found the President that would not require the most senior and experienced military officer to resign his commission and read books alone in a Raptor. Or not, in which case it was a terribly written episode. Seriously, though, it wasn't as bad as the emoticons-peeping-through-the-spoiler-tags made it out to be. Still not good, mind you, but not the worst this show has had to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormon Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 [quote name='Crow's Eye' post='1380129' date='Jun 2 2008, 13.08']Tigh impregnating the Cylon? Not so surprised, really, as I had always assumed something else was going on there when he was cutting off the camera. It's not hard to invision, actually, given his mental state and the fact that he's seeing Ellen's face and hearing her voice when talking to the Six. But when Cottle said that the Six was pregnant, I assumed that he meant the dead one he was just examining, and didn't realize it had anything to do with Tigh/Six until the Tigh/Adama scene.[/quote] I have always wondered that if Ellen was just an aged Six. OK, if Tigh is a cylon, and Six is obviously a cylon...how could she get pregnant from Tigh? I thought that two cylons couldn't have children. So if thats the case....who else was sleeping with Six? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raidne Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 [quote name='Crow's Eye' post='1380129' date='Jun 2 2008, 13.08']Seriously, though, it wasn't as bad as the emoticons-peeping-through-the-spoiler-tags made it out to be. Still not good, mind you, but not the worst this show has had to offer.[/quote] Eh, when you consider how long we've been enduring the build-up to Lee becoming President, it was pretty lame. I mean, if that's all it was gonna be, why not just have Lee quit the fleet and join the quorum the episode before? Instead, they basically canned the Lee character the entire season this far just to give us..what? A little discomfort from Zarek and a crazy speech from Romo? Anyone but me think the Romo character would come off a little better if he were old enough that you had to wonder if he was a little senile? I think that would work a little better for me. And, if remember correctly, most of the spoiler-smileys were in reference to the cat. Which deserves every one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 [quote name='Raidne' post='1380045' date='Jun 2 2008, 09.30']Who are they, exactly? And you're going to take Romo at his word? I can't blame you for blacking out the trial, but still...I get the feeling that we're at least supposed to think he's more clever and devious than all of that.[/quote] Seemed to me to be an attempt to elevate his status as the potential last cylon. puppet strings, all that.... A poorly written, poorly executed, transparent attempt, but.... Whatcha gonna do, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 [quote name='Crow's Eye' post='1380129' date='Jun 2 2008, 13.08']As for Adama leaving, I thought this was the most implausible part of the episode. He's already questioning Tigh's judgment (and his past leadership shows that there are many, many problems there) and now he leaves the entire fleet in his hands? Not buying it, really. There are lots of ways they could have found the President that would not require the most senior and experienced military officer to resign his commission and read books alone in a Raptor.[/quote] It fits. Remember the "Search for Starbuck" episode back in S1? One of the best moments of the whole series (imo) is in that, where right as their finally about to leave, Lee asks his father: [quote]Lee: And if it was me down there instead? Adama: You don't have to ask that. Lee: Are you sure? Adama: If it were you, we'd never leave[/quote] And now, it's Roslin, and he's refusing to leave. But he's also refusing to put the entire fleet in danger too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Stone Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 [quote name='mcbigski' post='1379833' date='Jun 2 2008, 06.27']I'll admit the Latin was a little bit jaring, but not anymore so really than the phrase "Eye of Jupiter". They toss around Greek names without anyone batting an eye, what's so bad about Latin phrases?[/quote] The names of the Greek gods are a major exception to my 'no references to Earth history or cultures'. Especially since it seems to be a premise of the show that the thirteenth tribe brought their gods with them. On the animals, I can readily accept that Kobol had birds and cats and canids and vipers and other such beasties. I just don't want them to be the same species that exist on Earth. Thus I think that the directors should go to great lengths to not actually use any real animals in the shoots. The birds in the trees that Tyrol enjoyed so much on Kobol should be DIFFERENT from the birds we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Oop North Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 [quote name='Bormon' post='1380104' date='Jun 2 2008, 11.58']Is anyone else expecting Lee to make an impassioned speech to the last group of survivors right before the Cylons attack, then jump into his Viper and lead the attack personally?[/quote] Oh. My. God. This could be the greatest thing for American Triumphalism since ... well, [i]Independence Day[/i]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormon Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 [quote name='Lord of Oop North' post='1380170' date='Jun 2 2008, 13.26']Oh. My. God. This could be the greatest thing for American Triumphalism since ... well, [i]Independence Day[/i].[/quote] Lee: Good morning. In less than an hour, vipers from here will join others from around the fleet. And you will be launching the largest frakking space battle in this history of mankind. Mankind -- that word should have new meaning for all of us today. We can't be consumed by our frakking differences anymore. We will be united in our common interests. Perhaps its fate that today is the 4th of Caprica, and you will once again be fighting for our freedom, not from tyranny, oppression, or persecution -- but from annihilation. We're fighting for our frakking right to live, to exist. And should we win the day, the 4th of Caprica will no longer be known as an Caprican holiday, but as the day when the world declared in one voice: "We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a frakking fight! We're going to live on! We're going to survive!" Today, we celebrate our Independence Day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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