Yet another frakkin' BSG thread

[mcbigski]

Totally obvious in hindsight, but I was starting to think that the cat was the final cylon or something.

Also nice to see the President engage in a bit of pet napping at the end of the ep. More abuse of executive power.

At least now I understand Tigh's wardrobe malfunction.

[Ran]

I'm with Shryke and Lord of the Oop North. This episode was not really even bad. Romo was interesting, the Adam-Tigh conflict was good, Adama-Athena was good, always good to see Zarek around ... The worst of it was simply Lee becoming interim president. They should have just told that one senior politician they mentioned as a candidate (the one who had no interest in being president) that, "Hey, take it now, resign it in a few months if you want." It was very lame.

Or maybe Lee really was forcing the issue to make himself the only acceptable candidate. You ambitious bastard!

Anyways, not at all a terrible episode. It had some very strong moments, it turned in an interesting direction ("What happens to the government if the president disappears or dies?") that I hadn't seen coming as such, and so on.

[Regina]

My main problems were:

1) Too much Lee, although at least it wasn't like the horrid old love-quadrangle episodes, lol.
2) Didn't we eventually learn Romo had kept the poor cat in there for weeks? Um...(looks for delicate way to say this) wouldn't something be noticed by anyone like Lee walking in the room?
3) Emo Adama

[Wouter]

[quote name='Regina' post='1377936' date='May 31 2008, 05.19']I have several new questions, but this is the most important: [i]what are the writers smoking?[/i] :huh:

Otherwise, all I can say is it's bad when I need to come in here and read the thread just to figure out wtf just happened. :bs:

(And I'd been really enjoying the show again. Hope this one was a fluke.)[/quote]
I agree, way too much Lee, for something that was obvious from the start (just make him president already, there was absolutely zero suspense or surprise in the scenes between him and Lampkin).

However, I think it was a fluke as "The hub" promises to be an entirely different kettle of fish. Already the preview is very interesting ( [url="http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=2UnA9TrYGA8"]http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=2UnA9TrYGA8[/url] ). This episode will likely follow the same timeframe as "sine qua non", but follow the much more interesting rebel Cylon storyline, probably including some major fireworks and the potentially interesting return of another semi-major character (which I think will be handled better than Romo's return).

[Werthead]

Composer Bear McCreary [url="http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=367"]with the background[/url] on how he come up with Lamkin's theme. Plus, he confirms that the cat isn't real.

[EHK for Darwin]

The episode largely sucked because it made very little sense.

[b]The President thing[/b]. Yeah, its pretty clear they're gonna shoe-horn Lee in some way, but is he really the only guy on the fleet that the Quorum won't castrate and the Admiral will work with? Adama hated Zarek cause he's Zarek, but I'm sure there's at least one of those 47 that he'd find suitable. And why would the Quorum find Lee acceptable? They don't really know him. They don't know the extent of his relationship with Commander Adama. What they do know is he's the guy son. And Commander Adama running the military with Baby Adama as President looks pretty damned much like a military dictatorship to anyone who doesn't know the full context. (which presumably the Quorum and their constituents don't) For all their whining about being dictated to and cut out of the loop, why would they accept an Adama hereditary monarchy?

The Commander Adama thing. WTF? Your President and a fair chunk of your military just disappeared...and its suddenly a foolish thing to keep looking for them? Over 3.5 seasons leaders in this show have risked alot more for a hell of alot less with noone questioning them. How is this any different? How is this a sign of Adama's clouded judgment? Why are some of the idiots who made even dumber decisions that panned out now chiming in to chastise his judgment? This is fucking stupid. Sit around for a while. Noone knows the way to earth anyway, so its not like you're losing time. You can jump out the moment Cylons arrive, so that's not a big deal. And if you're really worried, take one jump away, leave some kind of marker....but not the fricken commander.

Saul Tigh is what...a year or three removed from his disastrous and short reign as commander? And he spent part of that time trying to slaughter innocent humans in marketplaces. How is he A: Fit for command and B: a better candidate than even 'judgment clouded' Adama?

And the cat shit....you've got to be fucking kidding me. I hope RDM apologizes during the podcast and admits that 'yeah, we realized this episode was a bit mundane and dialog heavy, so we pulled something out of our ass just to invent some tension near the end. Hope you like it.'

[Lord of Oop North]

[quote name='Il Chiarimento' post='1378701' date='May 31 2008, 19.52']The Commander Adama thing. WTF? Your President and a fair chunk of your military just disappeared...and its suddenly a foolish thing to keep looking for them? Over 3.5 seasons leaders in this show have risked alot more for a hell of alot less with noone questioning them. [b]How is this any different?[/b] How is this a sign of Adama's clouded judgment? Why are some of the idiots who made even dumber decisions that panned out now chiming in to chastise his judgment? This is fucking stupid. Sit around for a while. Noone knows the way to earth anyway, so its not like you're losing time. You can jump out the moment Cylons arrive, so that's not a big deal. And if you're really worried, take one jump away, leave some kind of marker....but not the fricken commander.[/quote]

They found a wreckage field that seems to indicate they are all dead.

[Werthead]

[quote name='Lord of Oop North' post='1378716' date='Jun 1 2008, 02.08']They found a wreckage field that seems to indicate they are all dead.[/quote]

Except they didn't find any human bodies, nor conclusive evidence that any of the destroyed basestars was the rebel one.

It would seem that there are grounds for reasonable doubt.

Okay, time for speculation that involves one spoiler of huge proportions so avoid if you want to go unspoiled:

SPOILER: Major Major BSG Spoiler

Allegedly they find Earth in Episode 10, just in time for the mid-season cliffhanger. There are shots of Baltar and Lee on the surface, indicating the fleet reunites fairly quickly. I'm just trying to work out how it all falls out. The previews suggest that Cavill revives Three (interesting: why him, when he was so keen to box her before?). I think we can guess Three reveals the identities of the Penultimate Four to the others (there's a bit in the preview where she suggests that Roslin might be a Cylon, but I think this is her messing with Roslin's head)...but then what? Once they come clean do the Four's 'real' memories click in and they are able to reveal where Earth is? Or is some other force at work. And once the fleet finds Earth, what then? What takes up the remaining ten episodes of the season? Interesting times ahead.

[Werthead]

The latest issue of the UK [i]SciFi Now[/i] magazine [url="http://news.scifinow.co.uk/?p=234"]has an interview[/url] with Edward James Olmos and Aaron Douglas, among others. Interesting highlights:

SPOILER: BSG

The ending is very bleak, but not totally nihilistic. From the sound of it, the human race survives, but not in a fantastic state. Apparently Olmos says that "We are left with almost nothing," and "It isn't a happy ending." According to Douglas, they now all know who the Final Cylon is and the speculation on Internet sites "Doesn't even come close." That's probably hyperbole, unless it's confirmation that it's a previously unknown character, or someone returning from the dead. Otherwise everyone from Jake the fracking dog upwards has been considered.

Something that is interesting is that Olmos says they've shot the finale already, but according to other sources they're only finishing off Episode 18 this week and moving onto the two-part finale next week. Perhaps be meant they've read the script for the finale already (which chimes with producer Verheiden and Douglas talking about being blown away by it last week), but not shot it yet.

[Lord of Oop North]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1378741' date='May 31 2008, 20.47']Except they didn't find any human bodies, nor conclusive evidence that any of the destroyed basestars was the rebel one.

It would seem that there are grounds for reasonable doubt.

Okay, time for speculation that involves one spoiler of huge proportions so avoid if you want to go unspoiled:

SPOILER: Major Major BSG Spoiler

Allegedly they find Earth in Episode 10, just in time for the mid-season cliffhanger. There are shots of Baltar and Lee on the surface, indicating the fleet reunites fairly quickly. I'm just trying to work out how it all falls out. The previews suggest that Cavill revives Three (interesting: why him, when he was so keen to box her before?). I think we can guess Three reveals the identities of the Penultimate Four to the others (there's a bit in the preview where she suggests that Roslin might be a Cylon, but I think this is her messing with Roslin's head)...but then what? Once they come clean do the Four's 'real' memories click in and they are able to reveal where Earth is? Or is some other force at work. And once the fleet finds Earth, what then? What takes up the remaining ten episodes of the season? Interesting times ahead.

[/quote]

Well, yeah, I didn't say it was evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. But it did provide them (everyone but Adama, I guess) with a logical reason to assume that they failed their mission.

SPOILER: BSG SPoiler

The Canadian previews for next week showed Three being revived and proceeding to kill Cavil. At least, it looked that way. Boomer was also in the room.

[Wouter]

Werthead; I've also seen the Douglas comment worded as "most of the guesses are wrong" rather than "all of the guesses are wrong": [url="http://www.syfyportal.com/news425078.html"]http://www.syfyportal.com/news425078.html[/url]

The latter sounds much more reasonable, as everybody and anything has been guessed at some point. I wonder what he actually said in the original source.

[Bronn Stone]

I really hated the episode.

I hated the Latin quote. Unless Kobol or a colony had a Roman Empire, Romo shouldn't be making quotes in Latin. And if they did, it is silly. Earth languages have no place on BSG - we should actually be assuming that what we are hearing isn't actually even English - we're getting translations from the Kobolese.

I hated the dog. Battlestar Galactica has daggets not dogs. Dammit! Earth animals should not be shown. Not even hallucinatory cats. If cats and dogs came to Earth with the 13th tribe, that is stupid.

Adama is a boxer. He should have pounded Tigh to a pulp.

Sure, Lee had to end up President. But he shouldn't have acted surprised when his name came up. The entire Quorum should have been on the first list.

Popping open the Raptor to go for a stroll was stupid. Even if you did need to check out the discovered ship.

Adama should have told "Athena" that an open airlock is no place for her child. Then put her out one. And probably the child as well.

"We lost half our Vipers, their pilots, our President, at least one ranking officer and a worthless traitor. The only logical plan for human survival is to have the Admiral shirk his duty to the fleet and resign in vain hopes of getting his nob polished once before Roslin dies of cancer. For that, we'll also give up a Raptor"

I've tried to give this season more credit than it is due. But that was terrible.

[Werthead]

[url="http://uk.tv.ign.com/articles/877/877683p1.html"]Interesting interview[/url] with Alessandro Juliani and an intriguing revelation.

Not really an important spoiler but it does confirm two important things they are revisiting before the end of the season that people may have been expecting them to forget about:

SPOILER: BSG

The thing that Baltar whispered to Gaeta that made Gaeta attack him? We'll find out what that is. We also get a bit more closure to their relationship.

[HokieStone]

[quote name='Cristiano Bronnaldo' post='1379419' date='Jun 1 2008, 19.24']I hated the Latin quote. Unless Kobol or a colony had a Roman Empire, Romo shouldn't be making quotes in Latin. And if they did, it is silly. Earth languages have no place on BSG - we should actually be assuming that what we are hearing isn't actually even English - we're getting translations from the Kobolese.

I hated the dog. Battlestar Galactica has daggets not dogs. Dammit! Earth animals should not be shown. Not even hallucinatory cats. If cats and dogs came to Earth with the 13th tribe, that is stupid.[/quote]


From military parlance, to everyday expressions, to driving humvees on Caprica, they haven't exactly shied away from including "Earth-centric" things on the show.

[Ran]

It's a fantasy in space. I'm not much concerned with Latin proverbs, identifiable Greek deities, dogs and cats, modern military structure, and so on. I find it weird that anyone would be. But even then, most of these things can be explained as translation -- Kobolese=English, Latin=Ancient Caprican, dogs and cats=less corny stand-ins for equivalent animals then 'daggets', and so on. ;)

[mcbigski]

[quote name='Cristiano Bronnaldo' post='1379419' date='Jun 1 2008, 19.24']I hated the Latin quote. Unless Kobol or a colony had a Roman Empire, Romo shouldn't be making quotes in Latin. And if they did, it is silly. Earth languages have no place on BSG - we should actually be assuming that what we are hearing isn't actually even English - we're getting translations from the Kobolese.

I hated the dog. Battlestar Galactica has daggets not dogs. Dammit! Earth animals should not be shown. Not even hallucinatory cats. If cats and dogs came to Earth with the 13th tribe, that is stupid.

Adama is a boxer. He should have pounded Tigh to a pulp.

....

Popping open the Raptor to go for a stroll was stupid. Even if you did need to check out the discovered ship.

Adama should have told "Athena" that an open airlock is no place for her child. Then put her out one. And probably the child as well.[/quote]

As far as earth animals go, there have been references to cats, dogs, vipers, goats, bulls, raptors, and even chicken pot pie. Why can't you just assume dog=daggit if it makes you happy and you're running everything through a Kobolese translator in your head?

I'll admit the Latin was a little bit jaring, but not anymore so really than the phrase "Eye of Jupiter". They toss around Greek names without anyone batting an eye, what's so bad about Latin phrases?

As for Tigh and Adama fighting, it's possible that Tigh has might have extra human strength. He also kicked the crap out of Bulldog/Bulldaggit in 'Hero' which I found much less believable. He and Adama are about the same age at least.

I do agree that the Raptors should have been originally designed with an airlock, but it's a little late to change it now.

Overall, I thought the episode was decent. I'm not a big fan of Lee, so his becoming President seems kind of silly, but once in while you've got to give them a pass to shake things up, even if events might only make sense superficially and don't stand up to a deeper analysis. It's not any stupider than Ellen Tigh escaping from the 12 colonies in a coma and waking up half way through season 1, but that decision to bring her in as a character ended up working pretty well.

I'm certainly sticking around. I think the payoff will be worth the occasional plot shoe horns for the set up. YMMV.

[Shryke]

Lee has always been well liked by the Civies. He stood by the President during the Marshal Law thing. And the Quorum knows/thinks he has the ear of Adama, who it's rightly pointed out in the last episode, is essentially the defacto leader. The civilian government functions at his whim. The Qorum has looked to him for inside insight/information on the military several times this season.

RE: Stopping the Search

As far as they were aware, the assault fleet was dead. Or at least, unfindable. Staying in one place too long makes it more and more likely they'll be discovered by the Cylons. So, they left.

The desperate search is as much a sign of Adama's obsession as his desperate search for Starbuck was in S1. But this time, there's no Roslin to talk him down.

[SpaceChampion]

[quote name='mcbigski' post='1379833' date='Jun 2 2008, 08.27']As far as earth animals go, there have been references to cats, dogs, vipers, goats, bulls, raptors, and even chicken pot pie. Why can't you just assume dog=daggit if it makes you happy and you're running everything through a Kobolese translator in your head?

I do agree that the Raptors should have been originally designed with an airlock, but it's a little late to change it now.[/quote]

What´s so hard to believe? Humans clearly evolved on Earth, and then humans settled Kobol and then the colonies, and brought dogs, cats, cattle and chickens with them. There has been mainly what found on other worlds? -- algae and some plant life? Both might even have been seeded by the original colonists on terraformed worlds. Nothing identifiably alien has been seen on the show.

As for the airlock, I´ve seen and participated in trade studies for design of Mars rovers for human missions, and having no airlock is definitely a reasonable choice, and probably the preferred choice in the Raptor case. (For Mars, design studies seems to be settling on the concept of a suitport for larger vehicles; smaller vehicles that might be used in supportive capacity or shorter duration trips would be lacking a port or airlock). The Raptor in particular would rarely use such a thing, so most of the time it would be a huge waste of space and mass. If they would expect a particular mission where the military personnel would have to enter/exit often, then another type of ship or a modified Raptor with an airlock might be used instead. I don´t doubt the colonial military has many types of ships, but the fleet is lacking them since they couldn´t have planned on the apocalypse.

[Guest Raidne]

Why the hell did Romo pull a gun on Lee?

[mcbigski]

Either crappy writing and manufactured tension, or Romo was engaged in a deep psychological ploy to get Lee to commit to governing in a manner consistent with Romo's ideals. If I get around to watching it again before the next ep, I'll try to decide. Right now I can't really remember what Romo was bitching about and what Lee said to calm him down.

Until the cat bit, Romo had only seemed daft and eccentric - in the end his behavior seemed perfectly crafted to illicit his desired responses from Lee, Baltar, the opposing counsel, the witnesses and the judges. But this time he seemed to be legitimately bonkers. Or just projecting the cat.