NFL VI - I'm dreaming of a White Christmas...

[Bronn Stone]

I mean... he lost to the 1985 Pats... how bad is that? (I still liked that team. Shut up)...

Not as much as the Bears did... ;)

I've always asserted that counting Super Bowl wins is a terrible way to judge QB's. Defenses win Super Bowls for the most part. Though Brady pretty much gets credit in my mind for carrying the team to victory in the one they played against the Carolina - he was unstoppable that day.

[Mexal]

What got me in the Jets/Bengals game was how bad the Bengals were at tackling. It was their starters too that were missing tackles. I don't think it is a good sign for them next week. But they will be at home, so it will be a vastly different game. I am just glad the Jets showed up and played (unlike the Falcons game which was also a must win at the time).

I heard there was some bad tackling and that's fair enough but they've generally been a very good tackling team this year so I have no problem writing it off. I mean, Tom Nelson was starting but he's not a starter. He was terrible last night but the real starter is Chris Crocker who will be back next week. Nelson was a 3rd string undrafted rookie free agent. We had no Peko in the middle, no Geathers on the outside and no Crocker at safety. Between those 3, they're basically our run defense, that and Maluaga who is gone for season :( Anyway, I suspect it'll be better next week. The defense isn't my concern. The offense is. Supposedly Ocho can't extend his knee and should he not be able to play, we have absolutely zero passing threat which means we'll most likely lose the game. So here's to me hoping he'll be ok.

[Rockroi]

I've always asserted that counting Super Bowl wins is a terrible way to judge QB's. Defenses win Super Bowls for the most part.

Its not the best way to judge it. I mean, if you win one and NEVER sniff the playoffs again (Trent Dilfer), its hard to say that you are any better a QB than the next guy who can just throw deep (Rex Grossman). You win two and its usually a "chicken and the egg" discussion (were you good because you won two superbowls, or did you win two superbowls because you were good?). When you get to three, you kinda have to just say, "Okay, this guy is special." I do NOT think its possible for a mediocre QB to win multiple SBs.

But if you win four its clearly because you suck and the rest of the team carried your sorry ass. At least that's the way the media has taught me to judge Terry Bradshaw.

Though Brady pretty much gets credit in my mind for carrying the team to victory in the one they played against the Carolina - he was unstoppable that day.

Its interesting you brought up the Carolina Superbowl. Everyone forgets this now, but the reason that was such a completely fantastic game was because of a major screw up - by Tom Brady. I believe it was the third quarter and the Pats were driving- about to score the KO TD to just put the game away. Brady drops back and fires... A KILLER INT to the Panthers. From that point on it was just an epic back-and-forth slug fest between the Pats and the Panthers (and the ONLY time the Pats D did NOT come through- and YES I am including the 2007 SB). Had Brady just done what he was supposed to do- complete a gimmie TD -that game sucks (and we are spared like 6 years of "Jake Delhomme is a good QB" discussions).

Now, everything else you are saying is completely true- Brady carried that team that whole game- he just owned. BUT ... he sort of HAD TO! The guy put the Panthers back in that game! Jerk.

I think Brady's most memorable games came in the playoffs - the 2005 game at Pittsburgh, the Near Perfect game against Jacksonville in 2007, he was also really good in that Snow Bowl game (the Tuck Rule Game). And I always have maintained that he was the ONLY thing working offensively in the 2006 loss to the Colts. The game against the Dolhpins where he threw an INT off his butt? Not so much.

[Slyfinger]

I think Brady's most memorable games came in the playoffs - the 2005 game at Pittsburgh, the Near Perfect game against Jacksonville in 2007, he was also really good in that Snow Bowl game (the Tuck Rule Game). And I always have maintained that he was the ONLY thing working offensively in the 2006 loss to the Colts. The game against the Dolhpins where he threw an INT off his butt? Not so much.

Thank you for stirring the pot luck soup of my memories bringing up that game! Watching my Steelers getting shredded at home by Brady in another AFC Championship game makes me feel awesomey.

And to add to the discussion, where's Roethlisberger in the whole top QB mix? I'd argue that he is definately top 5 due to the numbers he's been putting up the past few seasons despite having a subpar O-line.

The 2 Super Bowl wins(one of which doesn't really count) have to solidify his ranking.

[Jaime L]

Well, Trebla, it may be $10 million a year for Shanahan but they've been saving money for a couple of years by paying Zorn peanuts. :P I feel a little bad for Zorn just for the classless way the organization treated him. He's a good man and deserved better. The reason I don't feel horrible for him is this would've been the only chance he ever had to be a head coach, especially at 57. His 3 year contract with the Skins also will allow him to take home the same amount of takehome pay as if he were a QB coach for the next 15 years. Was it worth all the hits to his dignity? I think if you ask him, after all is said and done, he's still glad to have gotten a chance, regardless of what a clusterfuck it turned out to be. But he's a strange guy.

As for Shanhan, like Malth, I like it a lot. I've always respected Shanahan and he's the kind of coach who should immediately restore discipline and respectability to the organization just through presence. I can only assume at his initial press conference he won't refer to the Skins as the "Maroon and Black". So that right there is a step up. He and Bruce Allen would give us the most competent coach-GM duo since Gibbs-Beatherd. Also listening to Denver Sports Radio and the number of fans who speak longingly of Shanahan pumps me up that we're likely going to get him.

And to add to the discussion, where's Roethlisberger in the whole top QB mix? I'd argue that he is definately top 5 due to the numbers he's been putting up the past few seasons despite having a subpar O-line.

The 2 Super Bowl wins(one of which doesn't really count) have to solidify his ranking.

Yeah somehow I forgot Big Ben when making my top 5 list. Big Ben, in my view, is clearly elite. And I still argue that the only QB in the league that could've won that second Superbowl for the Steelers was Big Ben. Every other one would've ended the year on IR considering how porous that O-0-line was but Big Ben was mobile and big enough to withstand the punishment. He's not refined like a Manning or Brady, he doesn't look good out there all the time, but he's a proven winner and the kind of guy that's able to do more with less.

Until Rodgers lifts the Packers on his back the way Roethlisberger has done, I gotta put Big Ben ahead of him. Revised list: Manning, Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Rodgers.

[Jaime L]

BTW, the most entertaining story of the day belongs, as usual, to the Raiders. Cable's on record as saying that the Raiders "would've been a playoff team if not for JaMarcus Russell" which leads everyone to suspect he's getting fired for that (and, not, y'know...punching out his assistant and domestic abuse charges), which allows all the radio hosts to replay parts of the awesome

where he looks like the cryptkeeper and reads emails he sent to Kiffin saying: "JaMarcus Russell is a great QB, get over it." Good times all around.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Jaime L--it's a fantastic deal you Redskins are getting (as long as he keeps Slowik as a DB coach, and not the coordinator). Shanahan is my all time favorite coach. I think if he got rid of Slowik in Denver and brought in Nolan (rumor has it that's why Bowlen fired him because he refused to part with Slowik for Nolan), then he would've been building something pretty special in Denver.

I'll be excited to see what Shanahan has in store for the Redskins. I think he's going to straight to drafting a franchise caliber QB.

[Commodore]

Until Rodgers lifts the Packers on his back the way Roethlisberger has done, I gotta put Big Ben ahead of him. Revised list: Manning, Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Rodgers.

Matt Schaub threw for the 6th most yards ever in a season, he belongs on that list if Rogers does.

[Rockroi]

Thank you for stirring the pot luck soup of my memories bringing up that game! Watching my Steelers getting shredded at home by Brady in another AFC Championship game makes me feel awesomey.

Well, to be fair, your Steelers have been a de-facto all around great team in the AFC and NFL for the last 10 years. LAst season, when the Pats looked like they could get into the playoffs, the Steelers just rumbled into Foxboro and beat the tar out of the Pats to secure their playoff run and hamstring the Pats'. In 2004, the Steelers ended the Pats consecutive game winning streak.

And to add to the discussion, where's Roethlisberger in the whole top QB mix? I'd argue that he is definately top 5 due to the numbers he's been putting up the past few seasons despite having a subpar O-line.

Ben has been pretty special since he came out his rookie year. I will say that he has had really talented WRs and at the start of his career, he had a solid running game. Obviously, the D did its part along the way. Big Ben's put up some sick numbers and he seems like he does everything right on the field. While his first SB appearance was forgettable, his second was special. Again, not sure you can be a mediocre QB in the NFL and win two superbowls.

[Arakasi]

I'm not as big a fan of Brees as others here are. While I do think he has outstanding games, I feel he has a tendency to fumble the ball away that is a bit too high for my liking. He is very loosey goosey with the football and I think it could bite NO in the playoffs this year. My top 5 would be in this order Manning, Ben, Brady (I just think Ben is more reliable in big game situations lately then Brady), Rodgers, Rivers.

[Trebla]

To borrow from Sports Illustrated, I present my Fine Fifteen:

1. P. Manning

2. T. Brady

3. D. Brees

4. P. Rivers

5. B. Roethlisberger

6. A. Rodgers

7. T. Romo

8. C. Palmer

9. K. Warner

10. D. McNabb

11. M. Schaub

12. E. Manning

13. J. Flacco

14. M. Ryan

15. V. Young

Pretty easy to see why it is a passing league. It's top heavy with pretty damn good qb's and then the league falls flat. I really believe the days of having a "bus driver" qb and having the great running game/defense are over. Mainly because when that was chic, the league was down in qb play. Since about 2003 or so the league has had an influx of good young qb talent. About the only teams that made the playoff with the running game/defense are the Jets and they barely made it. Got a lot of help, too, with 2 teams laying down for them.

[Rockroi]

The way I look at it is, if today you had to start an NFL team from scratch and had to pick a QB to run that team:

1. Who would you take

2. Who would be the last guy you would really be happy you got and who would be the first guy where you would have to "be content" with taking? IE- Okay, I GUESS I'll take X.

For me, there is no wrong answer going down that list right down to #5. I cannot fathom why anyone would take any QB over Manning and Brady, but if they said "Breese has a better arm, he has done more with less, etc" I think that's a fine answer (not to sound too much like a homer, but my feeling has always been that the NFL has a 1 and 1A at QB- Manning and Brady, and when you factor in Brady's injuries this season, I think that's about right, but wtf do I know?).

For me, its after Big Ben that things get to "Okay, I am "content" with this QB, but not thrilled." Nobody between Rodgers and Shaub has won a SB, with the exception of Warner and Warner is really questionable at times (the guy can still put up a great game and then throw 4 INTs). And his age is not great either.

And then I think there is a second drop off after Shaub (who, I think, is really good). I think Eli is highly questionable after yet another uninspired season (he looked downright terrible a few times). I think the jury is out on the remaining guys, incl Flacco who I was high on, but now think he has to do more.

Overall, look at the teams that are- year in and year out- competitive? Colts, Pats, Chargers, Steelers; its really hard to deny that in order to do really well in this league you need a really good QB ... or a crazy luck-sack catch off some idiot's helmet. Okay, I'll stop.

[LCOTNW]

As suspected, Welker tore his ACL (and MCL) and is done for the season. They are hopeful he will be ready to go next Fall.

linky

Results from an MRI exam confirmed that Patriots WR Wes Welker suffered a torn anterior cruciate ligament and medial collateral ligament in his left knee during a non-contact injury on Sunday, according to a source with knowledge of the situation.

Welker and the team expected that season-ending news following an initial evaluation of the injury on Sunday. Welker, who suffered the injury in the first quarter of New England’s 34-27 loss to Houston while planting the leg to make a cut, is expected to make a full recovery for the start of next season.

I'm no Pats fan, but it's sad to see them crippled like this going into the post season. Most of the playoff teams have some injuries here and there, and it's part of the game, but this one seems particularly unfair.

[Rockroi]

I think sympathy for Welker's injury is heart-felt for a number of reasons, but the most prominent is that Welker "played the game like its supposed to be played." All out, every catch, every time. You could see it. I am not saying this statement is NOT true for other players at other positions, but with Wes, it SEEMED more prominent. There is no bigger compliment a guy can get than that, frankly. I think people in general appreciate that.

Also, when you look at Welker (on TV) you are immediately struck by how... average he looks; he's like 5'9, 200 pounds. Not exactly an intimidating specimen (and when Brady congratulates him after a big play, its practically comical the way Brady TOWERS over Welker). I think that (to some extent) guys who look at Welker can (maybe?) feel a kinship to him because Welker LOOKS like them. And when they look at how Welker plays, on some level (I believe) they think to themselves, "IF I could play this game, even if I was not the most skilled player, I would play the game with the same intensity as THAT guy." Again, I may be projecting here.

He is also ridiculously fun to watch. He can make a grab and turn even a modest gain into a huge play. But its not the one play but the consistent, play-in, play out reliability of the guy, knowing he can do it on each and every play, 6, 10, 20 yards at a time. Everyone forgets this now, but in the Superbowl, Welker OWNED in the Pats last scoring drive. He was uncoverable. The whole playoffs the guy was money and he has been the most prolific WR in the game (he can catch, run for YAC, run on trick plays and return punts).

When he had the injury, the camera paned to him and Welker was crying on the sidelines. And nobody batted an eye-lash. We saw his pain and we felt like somebody we knew, who we identified with, who we rooted for (regardless of the costume) was dealt a really unfair hand.

This is in stark contrast to when Brady went down. Some people (NOT on these boards, generally) loved it. Some douchebag started selling "Bernard Pollard for President" tee-shirts on E-bay; apparently, at the Mandalay Bay Sports book in Vegas, when Brady's injury was announced, the place erupted in applause; when Jay Leno mentioned Brady's injury during is monologue, his audience started applauding, causing Leno to have to uncomfortably quiet them down. PART of that has to be the illusion of Brady as NOT being "one of the guys." He is on the cover of GQ, is married to a super model, and stays a safe and respectable distance from anybody with a camera, microphone or notepad. Fans felt no kinship with Brady so no empathy when his career was put in similar jeopardy. (Obviously, I took a completely different take on this).

Therefore, I really can appreciate that people are legitimately upset that Welker is done for a good stretch of time (I really think it will be AFTER the 2010 season). And it makes it a little easier.

It just fucking sucks, really.

[awesome possum]

Speaking as a Pats hater, Wes Welker has always come across as one of the few guys on the team who had not taken a bath in the fountain of douchebaggery.

He was basically the only entertaining aspect of Patriots games because he was fun to watch and his amazing ability to make great plays all by his lonesome is something even the most jaded Patriots loathers can respect.

[Rockroi]

Speaking as a Pats hater, Wes Welker has always come across as one of the few guys on the team who had not taken a bath in the fountain of douchebaggery.

Just wanted to point out that the "Fountain of Douchebaggery" is located about 100 yards from the "Plaza of Assholes" and two blocks over from "Raging Dickheads Square" in Patriots Place, Foxboro, MA. Patriots players bathe in the Fountain every Tuesday, noon to 2pm. They then go out and beat up homeless people.

[CelticBrennus]

I want to know whats up with Belichick lately, he seems to really be ripping into people (as far as Belichick goes).

After Casserly makes some comments regarding Brady playing with broken ribs etc...

“Who’s been wrong more than Charley Casserly since he left the Redskins? His percentage is like a meteorologist,”

After some previously unknown Panthers safety makes a comment about how hard Moss was playing:

"My response would be that's a lot of conversation coming from a team that just lost another game."

[Jaime L]

Well Shanahan to the Skins is official. I'm psyched.

Looks like it's only $7 Million a year. And that Shanahan will have final say, not the GM Bruce Allen. Florio's suggesting that Allen was hired all along at Shanahan's request to be his personal GM. We also get his son, Kyle Shanahan from Houston to serve as OC. Honestly don't know too much about him, but can't be worse than the Jim Zorn-Sherman Lewis tandem, right?

I'd love to see Shanahan install his stretch play-bootleg running game though I don't know if he needs Alex Gibbs and Gary Kubiak to install it properly. I do know Portis knows a thing or two about running in that system. I'm also very curious whether he'll keep Blache at D-Coordinator. Blache has clearly been far more successful than the last 3-4 D-Coordinators Shanahan had in Denver, especially in terms of stopping the run. But according to Peter King, there's rumors he's thinking about installing a 3-4 defense, and I'm not sure the Skins got the personnel for that. Regardless I'm excited. Back on the road to rejoining the NFL!

Jaime L--it's a fantastic deal you Redskins are getting (as long as he keeps Slowik as a DB coach, and not the coordinator). Shanahan is my all time favorite coach. I think if he got rid of Slowik in Denver and brought in Nolan (rumor has it that's why Bowlen fired him because he refused to part with Slowik for Nolan), then he would've been building something pretty special in Denver.

I'll be excited to see what Shanahan has in store for the Redskins. I think he's going to straight to drafting a franchise caliber QB.

Yeah, I'd be shocked if he doesn't draft a QB. Early rumors say Sam Bradford...but I don't think anyone has a clue

All I know is somewhere in the badlands of Montana, Jake Plummer has begun a workout regimen of throwing footballs through a tire swing.

[BLU-RAY]

Ugh. Congrats to the Skins, you bastards. This should help quite a bit.

*Please, God, no Charlie. No Charlie!*

[Jaime L]

Ugh. Congrats to the Skins, you bastards. This should help quite a bit.

*Please, God, no Charlie. No Charlie!*

I'll give what hope I can:

Report: Cowher meeting with Bills again today

Posted by Mike Florio on January 5, 2010 9:54 AM ET

At a time when there's an emerging sense that former Steelers coach Bill Cowher will remain on the sidelines for at least another year, multiple readers have brought to our attention a report from an obscure web site headquartered in the town of East Aurora, New York.

Per Joe Logan of EastAurora.org (which hopefully has the hamster power to withstand the coming crush of web traffic), Cowher will be in Buffalo on Tuesday for a face-to-face meeting with the Bills.

Giving the report more credibility is that the item, posted on January 4 at 6:35 a.m. ET, stated that the Bills would be firing the entire coaching staff on Monday. If there has been no time-stamp sleight-of-hand, Logan was the first to report that the coaches would be getting shown the door.

Logan also reports that Cowher is expected to make a decision on his coaching future by the end of the week, and that the Bills and the Panthers are the current contenders for Cowher's services.

You can apply whatever credence to this report that you choose. Given that Logan nailed the looming firing of the entire coaching staff, we think it was worth a mention that Logan also says Cowher will be back in Buffalo on Tuesday.

And if Cowher is still talking to the Bills, Monday's report regarding his inclination to take no coaching job in 2010 might have been part of the posturing in which he's engaged as he tries to get the kind of money and control that he desires.