The Police Are Your Enemy

[Ser_not_appearing_yet]

Well, they are theoretically bound by laws.

What I guess it comes down to is, would you rather the police be controlled exclusively by business, or the government? You'd make a hell of a lot more money as a mercenary than as a policeman, but I'm not sure the rest of us would find it quite as fun.

[peterbound]

And the current police force is a shining beacon of morality and goodness?

Jeezus, are there even a need for police in Canada?

As to the Blackwater thing, they are called Xe now, Prince had to change the name after whole killing 17 civilians thing. Most of those cats do their one/two years in Blackwater and become cops anyways, so you get your wish as to the cops being Blackwater. And we could do worse, you usually have to have SF time to get on that contract so they usually become pretty damn good cops. Highly disciplined, professional, and in great shape.

[King Nobody]

I don't think a 19 second video is enough time to decide what that was. Especially not knowing what happened before hand.

Beating someone who isn't resisting is always police brutality, no matter what happened before.

[MercenaryChef]

Beating someone who isn't resisting is always police brutality, no matter what happened before.

i agree.

however, the argument that many of the posters have made is that the police are totally vile and detestable, the police need eliminated from our societies as they are crazed, power-drunk bullies who have no desire to uphold laws and keep citizens safe.

this argument and using videos like that to 'prove' how inhuman and brutal the police are is simply asinine.

using isolated incidents and minority acts to 'prove' rash and overreaching generalizations is absolutely idiotic.

[Stubby]

[MOD]

Guys, mods have already posted warnings in this thread about playing nice.

Also, a gentle reminder to not complain within the forum if a post get deleted. Any complaints of that nature are to be dealt with via PM.

[/MOD]

[awesome possum]

generally not doing anything with your life.

weed? Its for losers.

Tell me about it! Guys like Michael Phelps, Michael Bloomberg, Aaron Sorkin, Richard Branson, Ted Turner, Barack Obama - just a tiny sampling of people who have admitted to smoking lots of weed in their life - they haven't amounted to shit. What a bunch of fucking retarded losers!

I think the potheads will forgive me.

Yeah, no problem. People enjoy being called retarded losers as long as the person who said it is in a bad mood. I'm also sure people who make idiotic generalizations like calling all potheads retarded losers don't mind being called sanctimonious jackasses either. It's just a fun way of expressing yourself without actually adding anything relevant to a conversation!

[Lord Mord]

Tormund,

Well, private ones would not be breaking legs now will they? Why would you hire someone to break your own legs?

Well, clearly I wouldn't -- not intentionally.

But you wrote about keeping the ruffians out. What do you do with the ones you already have, or worse, the ones who turn ruffian? You can ask them to leave, but I think a good many will resist.

Private ones could be fired.

Public ones can also be fired. It can be difficult, yes. OTOH, Blackwater is private, yeah? They're in security? Are there not a lot of bad apples in that barrel? Do we know that many -- or any -- have been let go?

People use private security all the time. There's a security guard at the front desk of my office. They do an admirable job making sure people don't park in our lot or steal our client's information.

Yes, but I don't suppose they round up rapists and murderers and racketeers. This last category, also, will end up being very difficult to distinguish, won't it? I mean, how will we know who are the "security" and who are the gangs?

I'm not saying it's always so terribly easy to do now, but at least it's not, you know, the explicit law of the land that they're supposed to get away with it; at least there's a system that one someone finally gives enough of a shit people can go to jail in public and humiliating trials.

If the only thing going for private security is that it isn't demonstrably any worse than public police, then I'd rather go with the system that isn't just a sell-out of principle, and with the system that has at least some organs in place for disinterested prosecution of offenders.

[GSP]

He apologized already, so I'm good. My pothead nature makes me the forgiving kind.

People have different physiologies. What may make one person watch you tube and giggle brainlessly for the rest of their life makes somebody else want to get up and go. Strains can make all the difference in the world. I've noticed in my own case that if I'm buying the cheap commercial variety, I'm a couch locked buffoon. If I'm fortunate to be smoking some primo, I tend to want to hike or spar or something. It could be that the primo's I get are more often than not Sativa's or at least a Sativa hybrid. Or it could also be that the more commercial varieties are often left to over ripen, gaining more mass but with the side affect that more of the thc breaks down into other compounds that have more lethargic affects. Whatever the difference, it is pronounced. You just can't even generalise about this stuff's affects IMHO.

I imagine different people feel the effects of blow differently as well. I mean, if everybody felt like I did on blow, nobody would become addicted. There is no way my various buddies with issues in that department feel the same thing I do: hyper awake, but agitated, paranoid and chewing my cud like a god damned cow so badly my jaw is always sore the next morning. Yay! And for only $100 I can do the same thing tommorow! Where do I sign up!

[Lord Mord]

Laron,

The police would look a lot better, if they said something like "Sorry, our bad.

Emphasis mine.

I quite understand what you mean, but I rather think that not only should we generally consider the actual character of the police as of superior importance to the appearance of their character, but more importantly, I think the police would actually be a lot better if they apologized. I believe that demonstrations of decent character can be terrifically powerful -- potentially indelible.

[Lord Mord]

Shryke,

:rofl: You assume they'll still be alive? :rofl:

Well, that is the pertinent question. At that point, my knowledge of the proposed solution and its underlying theory reaches its present limits.

[Insert Edit]

Strangely enough the time it took to wade through this thread = the time it takes to watch Clockwork Orange.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Private ones are mercenaries for hire with no morals or codes.

This comes from reading too much fantasy. Do we not pay the current police? Would they do the same job for no pay?

What I guess it comes down to is, would you rather the police be controlled exclusively by business, or the government?

I would rather police be controlled by the people they are supposedly serving. Not business or government. Also, the dystopia you are presenting flies in the face of countless private security firms already working for various business, individuals, and communities around the country.

Public ones can also be fired. It can be difficult, yes. OTOH, Blackwater is private, yeah? They're in security? Are there not a lot of bad apples in that barrel? Do we know that many -- or any -- have been let go?

Blackwater works for the government. Not for me. If Blackwater had been hired by the people of Iraq do you think they would still be working there?

[TerraPrime]

This comes from reading too much fantasy. Do we not pay the current police? Would they do the same job for no pay?

But the police is not a for-profit organization, like a mercenary company will be. I mean, is there no difference between scientists who work for the NIH versus those who work for Pfizer?

Also, the dystopia you are presenting flies in the face of countless private security firms already working for various business, individuals, and communities around the country.

But these private security companies exist in a society where police forces are present, so that they can't go rogue. In other words, we set up the game that the police will have the larger guns, so that nobody else can try to dominate by force.

Also, the dystopia that you dismissed so handily is a reality in many countries where government is non-functional. Say, the Congolese basin that's been plagued by warlord feuds and civil wars. When a central power structure is absent, we get strong-man dictators, not a libertarian paradise.

Blackwater works for the government. Not for me. If Blackwater had been hired by the people of Iraq do you think they would still be working there?

And you don't think Blackwater would work for the Iraqi insurgents if the insurgents could provide more pay?

[alguien]

Also, the dystopia that you dismissed so handily is a reality in many countries where government is non-functional. Say, the Congolese basin that's been plagued by warlord feuds and civil wars. When a central power structure is absent, we get strong-man dictators, not a libertarian paradise.

Oh, come now, its not nice to deconstruct someone's carefully fabricated faux-reality. ;)

[S John]

And you don't think Blackwater would work for the Iraqi insurgents if the insurgents could provide more pay?

I doubt it. I think that Blackwater probably did a number of different things in Iraq, but what got the most press were the security teams. For whatever reason some US personell in Iraq are protected by private security forces (and still are, though not much by Blackwater anymore). People who work for the State Dept., etc, who play a critical role but are non-military. Why the US government contracted out the security for US government employees working in war zones, instead of using the military, I do not know. I do know that some State Dept. people feel more comfortable in a nondescript up-armored SUV than riding around in an MRAP with a .50 cal mounted on the top.

Anyway, many Blackwater folks did prove to be bad seeds by conducting themselves in a reckless and arrogant manner, with complete disregard for the rules and sometimes for human life as well. But, I very seriously doubt that any of them would fight for the Iraqi's if the price tag were high enough. There are tons of bad things to say about Blackwater's role in Iraq, but I don't think that they could really be considered mercenaries in the traditional sense.

[Ser_not_appearing_yet]

Tell me about it! Guys like Michael Phelps, Michael Bloomberg, Aaron Sorkin, Richard Branson, Ted Turner, Barack Obama - just a tiny sampling of people who have admitted to smoking lots of weed in their life - they haven't amounted to shit. What a bunch of fucking retarded losers!

Lol, dude, being caught smoking weed once in your life hardly = pothead. A pothead in my book is someone whose life revolves around weed.

Blackwater guys make FAR more money than cops, FYI. They make three times as much as soldiers too. They are all about the money.

[slim da reaper]

....a reality in many countries where government is non-functional. Say, the Congolese basin that's been plagued by warlord feuds and civil wars. When a central power structure is absent, we get strong-man dictators, not a libertarian paradise.

Haha you get strong-man dictators with a central power structure as well, the more absolute a government's power the more corrupt it will be, people see it as their right now they have reached the top of the heap to reap the rewards, before they get brought down.

So are you really claiming that central government stops the creation of strong-men? Ludicrous, the African dictators Idi Amin's 8 year reign managed a death toll that was at least 80,000 and more likely around 300,000 then there's Robert Mugabe; Mobutu of Congo, who forced all television news channels to precede the evening news by an image of him descending through clouds from the heavens; "Emperor" Jean Bedel Bokassa, who it’s rumoured ate the human flesh of his victims.

[S John]

Blackwater guys make FAR more money than cops, FYI. They make three times as much as soldiers too. They are all about the money.

Of course they are. But that doesnt mean that many or most of them are not conscious of where that money is actually coming from. Just because they are willing to work in the pay of Uncle Sam doesn't necessarily mean they'd do the same for, say, Iran or North Korea. Some of them.... maybe, but I think you'd find the percentage to be microscopic.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

But the police is not a for-profit organization, like a mercenary company will be. I mean, is there no difference between scientists who work for the NIH versus those who work for Pfizer?

Of course they are. See civil forfeiture laws.

But these private security companies exist in a society where police forces are present, so that they can't go rogue. In other words, we set up the game that the police will have the larger guns, so that nobody else can try to dominate by force.

Whereas police exist in a society where they are accountable to no-one, so they go rogue all the time.

Also, the dystopia that you dismissed so handily is a reality in many countries where government is non-functional. Say, the Congolese basin that's been plagued by warlord feuds and civil wars. When a central power structure is absent, we get strong-man dictators, not a libertarian paradise.

The government in this country is not non-functional. What is non-functional is the police system, which is acting as a military occupancy force.

And you don't think Blackwater would work for the Iraqi insurgents if the insurgents could provide more pay?

Of course not. That would be retarded. They would (#1) be killed by the US Army, and (#2) never work again in their field (#3) face criminal sanction in the US.

[Nathanael]

Well, private ones would not be breaking legs now will they? Why would you hire someone to break your own legs?

Well, sure, I'm not going to hire them to break my own legs. But what if I hired them to break your legs?