aDwD - Only Five Chapters To Go?

[mormont]

On the number of viewpoint characters: GRRM has several times indicated that he's aware of this problem and has plans to cut it down significantly after ADWD. I believe he'll find that very difficult and I doubt he has a firm plan on who will go and how, but he knows it's a problem and he intends to fix it, and at this stage I think that's all we can ask.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

red snow,

Conspiracy or not, it would be pretty stupid, if the book isn't going to be out until at least march, not to to have some kind of overlap with the launch of the show as that way both would benefit. The TV show will cause more interest in the series and sticking a "now a major TV show" (hopefully a sticker or display stand - not the book) will pull in more casual readers and remind cavemen fans that the TV is about to start.

I personally hope they'll start sticking photos of the main characters on the books - Sean Bean on the front of ADWD would be amazing ;)

I still can't bring myself to be too excited about anything regarding the completion of the book until the editors have the finished version in their hands. GRRM himself have up making predicitions once he failed on several occasions.

Bite your tounge. I'll be mad as hell if they start doing "movie covers" to promote the HBO series. The Sookie Stackhouse novels to not have primarily movie covers when they are released.

As to the news I'm excited. I hope to be able to bring my copy of ADWD to Worldcon along with my new hardback first edition of ACOKs to have GRRM sign.

:)

[Slick Mongoose]

GRRM has several times indicated that he's aware of this problem and has plans to cut it down significantly after ADWD. I believe he'll find that very difficult and I doubt he has a firm plan on who will go and how

FIRE AND BLOOD!!!

[BigFatCoward]

another issue with books having maximum sizes. does the increase of kindles and the like mean that books will start to increase in size? at present i imagine it keeps a lot of authors in check, but unlimited book size means that people won't need to edit as much and books could become a lot more rambling and less tight.

[Ran]

Scot,

They're certainly doing a TV show image for the GoT reissue, and may well do it with more of the books if they reissue those. It's unlikely ADwD will have one, though, it seems to me.

[SamanthaofHodorsfield]

Well just as long as they continue to do the traditional covers, then I really don't mind if they also sell tie-in covers. As for the five chapters to go, it's great news, but I'll hold the true celebrating until I read on the blog that it is done and handed in.

[red snow]

red snow,

Bite your tounge. I'll be mad as hell if they start doing "movie covers" to promote the HBO series. The Sookie Stackhouse novels to not have primarily movie covers when they are released.

As to the news I'm excited. I hope to be able to bring my copy of ADWD to Worldcon along with my new hardback first edition of ACOKs to have GRRM sign.

:)

My tongue was firmly in cheek hence the Sean Bean ADWD cover :P

I hate the tv covers on books but it sure helps shift more copies so it's bound to happen. I'm sure we'll still get the regular covers for the completion of the series though. We'll just have to be a lot more acreful when ordering them online.

[mormont]

TV covers for the books depend on the TV series actually being successful enough to impinge on the public consciousness. To actually replace the 'standard' covers, as opposed to getting an additional print run of TV covers in paperback, say, the series would need to be a huge hit. As big as anything HBO have ever done, I think. So I doubt it'll happen... but if it does, it's for a good reason. :)

[Rockroi]

Sorry to be a tad skeptical about the timing and all but... Coincidentally coming out riiiight before HBO's Game of Thrones? Anyone notice this? Maybe it means nothing.

I think it would be VERY GOOD business sense for Martin and the publishers to release ADwD as the series is being launched... and it has nothing to do with ADwD; the increase in sales for that book would be minuscule. I think the real sales ride happens when the series is launched and you get a bunch of people watching the show and THIS conversation takes place:

Guy: Wow, that episode was awesome! How were the actual books?

Girl: The books are fantastic! You would love them.

Guy: Okay, cool. When did the last book come out?

FREEZE:

Which answer is better to prospective readers who are getting turned on to a new brand:

Girl: Oh my God, the newest book was released in March! It was crazy-good!

OR

Girl: Oh my God, the last book was released five-and-a-half years ago, it received very mixed reviews, and we have no clue when the next one is coming out.

Its not a contest. New readers want some comfort that their prospective investment will be worth it and leaving fans hanging for 5 years-plus is not a great incentive to new readers.

And as far as "wow this is good news" I completely agree with Mormont, 100%. Five chapters are five chapters; incomplete is not complete. I am happy he has made progress, but I will be far happier with a finished book.

[TrackerNeil]

On the number of viewpoint characters: GRRM has several times indicated that he's aware of this problem and has plans to cut it down significantly after ADWD. I believe he'll find that very difficult and I doubt he has a firm plan on who will go and how, but he knows it's a problem and he intends to fix it, and at this stage I think that's all we can ask.

Clearly, George needs another few weddings to trim down the number of POVs.

[KyleLitke]

going back to what size is desirable for a book, anecdotaly my thrones, kings and crows are fucked. but swords which was split in 2 in the uk are in perfect condition.

My Clash of Kings and Feast are perfectly fine. Storm had a couple problems. Game I've had to rebuy twice because pages simply fell out. I actually had the same problem with the Wheel of Time...I've had all but Book 1 since I bought them (many, many years ago in some cases) and while they're a little worn out, they're okay. But Book 1, I've rebought two or three times because pages just fall out. Not sure why as those two aren't the largest books in their respective series, but there ya go.

[Jonias Snow]

I think it would be VERY GOOD business sense for Martin and the publishers to release ADwD as the series is being launched... and it has nothing to do with ADwD; the increase in sales for that book would be minuscule. I think the real sales ride happens when the series is launched and you get a bunch of people watching the show and THIS conversation takes place:

Guy: Wow, that episode was awesome! How were the actual books?

Girl: The books are fantastic! You would love them.

Guy: Okay, cool. When did the last book come out?

FREEZE:

Which answer is better to prospective readers who are getting turned on to a new brand:

Girl: Oh my God, the newest book was released in March! It was crazy-good!

OR

Girl: Oh my God, the last book was released five-and-a-half years ago, it received very mixed reviews, and we have no clue when the next one is coming out.

Its not a contest. New readers want some comfort that their prospective investment will be worth it and leaving fans hanging for 5 years-plus is not a great incentive to new readers.

And as far as "wow this is good news" I completely agree with Mormont, 100%. Five chapters are five chapters; incomplete is not complete. I am happy he has made progress, but I will be far happier with a finished book.

Rockroi, this is absolutely the best logical reason out there for GRRM to finish ADwD within the next few months. If like you say casual viewers or newbies who enjoy the first season realize that the last book was released that long ago and there is no indication when the next is to be released they might feel that the series will be unfinished and thus decide not to invest their viewing time. I can see HBO and the publisher presenting this argument to GRRM earlier this year.

HBO exec: (to publisher) So you are telling me that Mr. Martin has no idea when ADwD will be finished could be another year or two, and yet last year you mentioned the book might be in your hands by October.

Publisher: Well sir, he is having difficulties ironing out certain plot threads and resolving others, he is trying his best.

HBO exec: I notice he spends alot of time on the convention circuit and working alongside other authors, perhaps he needs to curtail these for awhile.

Publisher: He has obligations with these side projects, he can't just cut them off.

HBO exec: We are investing a considerable amount in time and money ($60 mil) in bringing to life his first book, should we just curtail this project.

Publisher: What can I do about it, he keeps his own time.

HBO exec: Impress on Mr. Martin, the importance of the next book being finished before the show airs next spring. Put across him how this might sound; HBO's new show based upon the series by GRRM whose last book was released in 2005 and we don't have any idea on when his next book is to be published. Then hit him with this line, HBO's new show based upon the acclaimed series by GRRM who's most recent book ADwD is to hit bookstores this spring. Now tell me, which line should be attached to the shows premiere.

Publisher: Yes sir, I will impress upon him the urgency of the situation.

[Ran]

:rofl:

Glad to know we have some more fantasy authors on the board!

Seriously, HBO doesn't give a damn about the release schedule of the novels. Viewers of the show are going to watch the show, period, whether the literary series is done or not. The only thing they might even vaguely care about is a little bit of loss in cross-promotion opportunity, but given that HBO's advertising campaign is probably going to be 10-20 times that of Spectra's, so it's chump change.

[Padraig]

Indeed Ran. My eyes were popping out of my head reading a couple of those posts. :worried:

Crazy stuff.

[mormont]

I think that conversation is only slightly more likely to have taken place than one about whether Martians will feature in the next book.

The idea that HBO would put any pressure on GRRM when they are not committed to doing a second series, let alone a fifth (or sixth - there's some question about whether ASOS could be done in one series) is absurd. As is the notion that HBO would even threaten to cut off the project because of the delay in producing ADWD. They're going to throw away the money they've spent on rights, the pilot, and all because 'people might not watch the first series because the fifth book isn't out'? Really? Come on. That's insane.

Meanwhile, the idea that such pressure, if it existed, would actually have any effect on GRRM's writing, is a supposition made up out of whole cloth. Look, there is absolutely no doubt at all that GRRM has fully understood the many prior, and considerably more important, reasons why he should urgently finish the next book since about, oh, 2006.

So, all in all, I'm thinking that's a pretty fanciful idea.

[Blue Roses]

Oh this has cheered me up ....2011 will be a fine year with drooling at Sean Bean in a big shaggy cloak and reading ADWD.

I'm now going back to my shitty 2010 existence.

[Rockroi]

The idea that HBO would put any pressure on GRRM when they are not committed to doing a second series, let alone a fifth ... is absurd....

Meanwhile, the idea that such pressure, if it existed, would actually have any effect on GRRM's writing, is a supposition made up out of whole cloth. Look, there is absolutely no doubt at all that GRRM has fully understood the many prior, and considerably more important, reasons why he should urgently finish the next book since about, oh, 2006.

So, all in all, I'm thinking that's a pretty fanciful idea.

and

Seriously, HBO doesn't give a damn about the release schedule of the novels. Viewers of the show are going to watch the show, period, whether the literary series is done or not. The only thing they might even vaguely care about is a little bit of loss in cross-promotion opportunity, but given that HBO's advertising campaign is probably going to be 10-20 times that of Spectra's, so it's chump change.

Hmmm... when did I say HBO is pressuring Martin again? Let me check my post again. I sometimes forget what I write:

Quoting me:

I think it would be VERY GOOD business sense for Martin and the publishers to release ADwD as the series is being launched...

(emphasis added)

So, in my mind's eye, I agree- HBO has NOTHING to do with this decision: MARTIN DOES! The Publishers and Martin know that in HBO rides a GOLDEN opportunity to greatly expand the readership of the books (NOT the viewership of the series). My dialog spoke of new people READING the books not new people WATCHING the series. If the new book is released in anticipation of the series AND the series is watched by people who may read the books, MY GOD! You would have to have ZERO business sense to not see this incredible money-making opportunity - new readers are far more likely to read a series that has been active within the previous six months than one that has been DORMANT for FIVE YEARS!

So yes, let me state, emphatically, that George RR Martin- who's a very smart and capable business person -may have calculated this into his process. It's too good of an opportunity- HBO as advertisement for the books, NOT the books as advertisement for the series -to simply think there is no connection.

Glad to know we have some more fantasy authors on the board!

Glad to see we have fantasy readers as well...

[Slick Mongoose]

I think they were talking about Jonias's post.

[Rockroi]

I think they were talking about Jonias's post.

Jomus was talking about my point, so the two may have gotten entangled. I wanted separation. And Ran's last comment was that the board had fantasy "authors" (plural) and then Padraig stated that their "eyes were popping out of my head reading a couple of those posts" (clearly plural). I'm implicated, and my point is simple: George RR Martin is, likely, going to release the next book just prior to the launch of the new HBO series and that makes a lot of financial sense for Martin and the publishers.

And opens a very awkward door...

[Ran]

Rockroi,

Were you the person I was responding to? Pretty sure it was Jonias who posted a fanciful conversation between an HBO executive and George's publisher.

HBO doesn't care, really, but there's some truth to the idea that it'd be good for the publisher (and GRRM) to get it completed sooner rather than later. But that's good in a business sense only. It may or may not be good in a creative sense. The ideal end point to the novel is one in which GRRM is pleased with it and thinks he couldn't do better.