December Fifith Promo.

[reiver]

Renly isn't how i imagined either but he fits in with the other casting. He looks like he could be related to Mark Addy and (definitely) Gendry so at least that's consistent. If he'd been as described in the books he'd be hard to buy as the guy who liked like a young Robert a la Mark Addy.

I think the lack of the kids in the trailer may be a marketing choice rather than a sign that the series wont focus on them as much as the books. As it is i'm suprised they repeated the word "fantasy" so much as it's a genre that will ellicit a (perhaps uninformed) negative response from a lot of people. Despite the popularity of the lord of the rings, harry potter and twilight it's still a bit of a dirty word. Combine that with a heavy focus on the kids and a lot of people could make snap decisions tht this isn't a show they're interested in. Even though i agree with the guy who said this trailer felt more a sop to bring existing fans onboard i think they didn't wnt to make the appeal too narrow, especially given the show it was on before.

Take the wire. I was raving about it to a friend and he was quite interested in it as he'd heard about it before. When he asked me to be more specific about what it was about i said something along the lines of post-industrial Baltimore (not the best description i admit but even with time i'd find it hard to boil it down to a couple of sentences) and immediately you could see the interest fade. I knew he'd enjoy once he was in there so i gave him the easier hook of the drug investigation in the first episode. Interest came back. He's now watched them all and loved it as much as me but if it wasn't for that entry point of Stringer bell and Omar there was no way he was making it through a single episode about public schools.

What i mean is, that from here in we probably shouldn't worry too much about the tone of the marketing as they're going to be trying to draw in an audience that would probably change the channel at the first mention of dragons.

[Juba]

Just because I'm a pedantic prick, I'll rain on the happy parade--

King's Landing with palm trees is annoying--if they are truly trying so hard to differentiate locals--why make King's landing look so similar to Pentos? a Medieval London look would have been much better (and would also have have the distinct advantaged of making sense and being true to the novels.)

Still think the Lannisters helms and armor looks like an unholy amalgamation of 4th edition DnD artwork, Warcraft, and Samurai armor.

The Unsullied look like extras on Zena (simply add quilted tunics and they would have been good to go.)

The Dothraki are a travesty as well--leather straps across the chest--what is this Neverwinter Nights? Honestly, what was so bad about painted leather vests, horsehair leggings, belts made up of copper disks, bells and braids? Not exotic enough?

Concerning the bells making too much noise on set--simply absurd, as the bells could be crafted without clappers, or made of painted plastic or resin--not to mention a lot of the dialog and foley sound is often recorded later in the studio because of such extraneous noise(as well as wind, fighting, etc.) but I digress.

Really, the art direction is unfocused and inconsistent--the books describe all of this in great detail(and has the advantage of being much cooler.) Sorry, but the stuff HBO cooked up is NOT an improvement in my book--but what can one expect from Hollywood?

Truly, what worries me even more are what they'll do to the story itself--if they are willing to make such arbitrary changes to the look of the books--what kind of craziness might we see from the writing? That Robert quote about "War's a comin' Ned, not sure where, or who, or how, but I feel it in these old bones of mine. . ." doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence. Hope I'm wrong though.

[aimlessgun]

Take the wire. I was raving about it to a friend and he was quite interested in it as he'd heard about it before. When he asked me to be more specific about what it was about i said something along the lines of post-industrial Baltimore (not the best description i admit but even with time i'd find it hard to boil it down to a couple of sentences) and immediately you could see the interest fade.

Haha I had that exact problem with the Wire.

"Whats it about?"

"Uhh...its about Baltimore"

"What does that even mean"

"Like...it captures the city, its reality. It's like the Truth, man."

Friend just ends up confused.

It's hard to hone down your pitch to a simple hook when the totality of an awesome series is on your mind. Just selling it as a cop show is a good call for the Wire...but I'm hard pressed to think of a catchy and simple half-truth for ASoIaF.

Anyway, no one else cares that GRRM said Jon and Robb are as close as brothers!? He's clearly saying R+L=J, since he didn't say "as close as brothers can be."

Was/is R+L=J in doubt?

[Kat]

Whoa, is the site all blue for anyone else?

Anyway, no one else cares that GRRM said Jon and Robb are as close as brothers!? He's clearly saying R+L=J, since he didn't say "as close as brothers can be."

To be fair, in the books, Jon and Robb are almost never treated as brothers, because of Jon's distinction of being Ned's bastard son. He is not like the other siblings. He and Robb are close, but I also get the idea that the situation is unusual for Westeros society and clearly some people like Catelyn are displeased. I don't think it has anything to do with R+L=J.

ETA: Here's what I said in the other thread, since we're talking about getting non-readers interested in the show.

I think my parents will end up really liking this. They don't have HBO but they have watched a lot of the shows on DVD such as Rome, The Wire, and Six Feet Under, and after watching Lost my mother grudgingly admitted that maybe she did, in fact, like science fiction. I also got several members of my extended family at Thanksgiving interested in the show. My cousin and her husband are very likely to watch it since they already have HBO and love SFF. They haven't read ASOIAF but they're huge costuming geeks and their attention perked up when I said it was fantasy with HBO levels of sex and violence. :lol:

I sent the video to my father and he is intrigued by the large cast including some familiar British actors and Aiden Gillen, and he told me he went and looked it up on IMDB to look at things like casting locations, etc. He asked me how much fantasy there was in it, and I said that the first season has very little magic, mostly hints at the supernatural, but that more stuff would be introduced later on, and in general it is not a magic-heavy fantasy,

[mormont]

Whoa, is the site all blue for anyone else?

Anyway, no one else cares that GRRM said Jon and Robb are as close as brothers!? He's clearly saying R+L=J, since he didn't say "as close as brothers can be."

'Clearly' is an overstatement, I think.

If Ned is Jon's father, that still only means Jon and Robb are half-brothers. Half-brothers and brothers are different things, particularly as the immediately preceding passage specifically draws a distinction between Jon and the children Ned and Cat 'have together'. It's enough to mean that this is at best an evasion or hint, no stronger than anything else GRRM has said previously.

Concerning the bells making too much noise on set--simply absurd

Well, it was a passing thought of mine, so if you want to slag someone off about it, please make it me rather than the art direction. ;) FWIW, I reckon bells without clappers would be pointless. They might as well replace them with metal rings braided into the hair, at that point: or indeed with ritual scars on the torso, or some other marker, or even drop them altogether. Again, it's a small thing: if it saved time in makeup or made shooting easier or just didn't look right to the director, I'd expect it to go.

Truly, what worries me even more are what they'll do to the story itself--if they are willing to make such arbitrary changes to the look of the books--what kind of craziness might we see from the writing? That Robert quote about "War's a comin' Ned, not sure where, or who, or how, but I feel it in these old bones of mine. . ." doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence. Hope I'm wrong though.

I suspect there will be changes to the story. In fact we know there are. The abovementioned changes to Ned's character, the scene with him held by a noose, Robert's quote, added scenes... and that's just so far.

Honestly, anyone who isn't prepared for changes to the story that they think are 'arbitrary', or unnecessary, or lose some of the subtlety, or whatever, either hasn't ever watched an adaptation or has been harbouring unrealistic hopes. As I've said, it's in the nature of an adaptation that it is different from the source. And it's in the nature of people that what one person thinks is a good change will strike another as arbitrary or even harmful.

[alguien]

King's Landing with palm trees is annoying--if they are truly trying so hard to differentiate locals--why make King's landing look so similar to Pentos? a Medieval London look would have been much better (and would also have have the distinct advantaged of making sense and being true to the novels.

???

I thought Kingslanding was a hot, summery type city? Certainly never thought of London when reading about it.

Honestly, anyone who isn't prepared for changes to the story that they think are 'arbitrary', or unnecessary, or lose some of the subtlety, or whatever, either hasn't ever watched an adaptation or has been harbouring unrealistic hopes. As I've said, it's in the nature of an adaptation that it is different from the source. And it's in the nature of people that what one person thinks is a good change will strike another as arbitrary or even harmful.

QFFT

[Padraig]

Anyway, no one else cares that GRRM said Jon and Robb are as close as brothers!? He's clearly saying R+L=J, since he didn't say "as close as brothers can be."

Nah. Don't think so. He just means that, even though Jon and Robb aren't full brothers, they treat each others as if they were.

I wonder what GRRM's thoughts were on inserting a more physical rivalry between Jaime and Eddard.

GRRM has worked in Hollywood. He knows what it gets up to. His ability to accept changes is why he can stay so involved.

As it is i'm suprised they repeated the word "fantasy" so much as it's a genre that will ellicit a (perhaps uninformed) negative response from a lot of people.

I imagine HBO realises that it can't get away from the fact that it is fantasy (fake world and all that), so the best way to deal with it is to show the kind of gritty fantasy it really is. Don't hide it.

why make King's landing look so similar to Pentos?

They shot in Malta and N Ireland. It was going to look like one of those. :P I know, we can all wish they had the money to shoot in 4 or 5 different countries but that's not really practical.

As far as I know, the Unsullied look like how they are described in the book? So I can't see why you'd criticise that. Except if you accept that somethings don't work so well on screen, so HBO feels free to change stuff. Personally, I don't care what they do with clothes. I'd be a lot more concerned about changes to plot. Like bells? I always thought that was a strange idea having this guy walking around always ringing. It could get tiring very quickly for the audience. (Fine for a book of course. :)) I like the fact that they are having fun with Lannister armour. Like why not? Its a fantasy world.

I think they put in the Robert line about war to give the series more of a focus. You want to get the audience interested in the coming episodes. Threatening a war is a simple way to do that. Besides, it doesn't change anything. Maybe he is trying to give himself some purpose? And it actually plays into the fact that later on he has a major falling out with Ned because he fears a war with the Dothraki.

[alguien]

GRRM has worked in Hollywood. He knows what it gets up to. His ability to accept changes is why he can stay so involved.

Its a step toward making Eddard more of a stereotypical hero. I can see why they'd do it for TV/general audience. I don't even know if I have a problem with it. Not only do we see them talking sh*@ to each other, we actually see them fighting in the very beginning. I'll be very curious to see how the fight goes.

[smegma]

Renly isn't how i imagined either but he fits in with the other casting. He looks like he could be related to Mark Addy and (definitely) Gendry so at least that's consistent. If he'd been as described in the books he'd be hard to buy as the guy who liked like a young Robert a la Mark Addy.

Yeah my initial surprise at his youthfulness was tempered by his looking very similar to Gendry - they could be brothers. Excellent way to go about it, and again I think it makes more sense that he's so youthful because of Margarey/Loras/Sansa/etc.

[Scion of Valyria]

Its a step toward making Eddard more of a stereotypical hero. I can see why they'd do it for TV/general audience. I don't even know if I have a problem with it. Not only do we see them talking sh*@ to each other, we actually see them fighting in the very beginning. I'll be very curious to see how the fight goes.

What problem is there to have? Eddard IS a stereotypical hero. That's what gets him killed. As to the fight with Jaime, I thought that was the showdown between them in the books, sans the rainy gloomy atmosphere that made the fight so memorable in the books. THAT I'm slightly miffed about.

AS TO THE SCENE WITH THE NOOSE: It's Ned. It isn't Brandon. No flashback characters have been cast. Plus, we don't find out what truly happened to Brandon and Rickard until Jaime reveals it to Cat in...the second or third book I recall. They probably just elaborated on the scene of Ned's arrest, showing us what happens after "I did tell you not to trust me."

OVERALL I was pleased with this stuff. Every clip I see makes me think more and more that come April, I'm no longer going to think "Boromir" or "Trevalyan" when I see Sean Bean, but Eddard. I am interested to see if they're going to release any special on the background to GOT, talking about Robert's Rebellion, Greyjoys, etc. There's a lot there, I'm not sure how much they'd be able to fit in the show itself.

[The Mormegil]

AS TO THE SCENE WITH THE NOOSE: It's Ned. It isn't Brandon. No flashback characters have been cast.

Except Jon Arryn, you don't hire a trained actor if the only scene required is to be a corpse. So expect some Jon Arryn flashbacks (could just be to his Incest Investigation but could go back to the Rebellion).

As to other actors, we had no idea Beric was cast till his filming was already done and dusted so not hearing of them does not mean they haven't been cast.

As to the possible Brandon flashback*. It could be they swapped things around and what we are seeing is Rickard Stark strangling himself trying to get to a burning Brandon. This explains why the person is older than 20 something and why they could possibly get away with Sean Bean playing the part.

*Still think it's Ned and Cersei/Jofferey is torturing him.

On another point what are peoples opinion of the seasons seemingly being extended. In the book IIRC Ten years is considered to be a long Summer or Winter yet the show seems to be going with a Winter lasting Twenty to Thirty Years.

[Padraig]

I can see why they'd do it for TV/general audience. I don't even know if I have a problem with it. Not only do we see them talking sh*@ to each other, we actually see them fighting in the very beginning. I'll be very curious to see how the fight goes.

Sorry, I should have said that I'm sure GRRM would have preferred if Ned wasn't changed. But I imagine he wasn't surprised at the change. A bit of further Jaime v Ned tension wouldn't be so bad.

IIRC Ten years is considered to be a long Summer or Winter yet the show seems to be going with a Winter lasting Twenty to Thirty Years.

There could have been a winter or two between the war of the Usurper and the present day? Maybe a mild one? The main thing is that the last winter is 10 or more years ago. That means that none of the kids should remember winter.

Except Jon Arryn, you don't hire a trained actor if the only scene required is to be a corpse.

I was wondering could they include a deathbed scene for Jon Arryn right at the beginning? One way to easily explain why Robert is visiting Ned. I agree though that they might be keeping a few castmembers quiet. Surprise us. :)

[SergioCQH]

I agree with the sentiments that the art direction, set design, and costuming could have been more faithful. There doesn't seem to be any budgetary or dramatic reason for the changes in these areas.

[Brude]

I tend to wonder if it was a sound problem, myself: if the bells actually made any noise, no matter how soft, it could be very distracting both to the actors on a shoot and to the viewer on screen. That's the kind of problem you don't have on a page. ;)

If they did have the bells, they would be prop bells that made no sound and they'd just foley in the tinkling whenever and at whatever volume best fit the shot/scene. That wouldn't have been a problem.

We don't know that flashback characters haven't been cast, just that thy weren't announced. Several roles, like Beric Dondarrion, were not officially announced but leaked out other ways and were later just confirmed by HBO. I hope that there are some flashbacks, but I don't know if we'll see them or not.

[Scion of Valyria]

I concede, I suppose you can't know for sure if they're doing flashbacks.

However, when Jaime tells Cat the details of Brandon and Rickard's fate, its a great scene and very telling of the inner conflict of the Kingslayer. Introducing it now would just weaken its impact later on. I don't think these guys want to bust their load too early. At least, I certainly hope they don't.

[Commodore]

One small concern, in the books Sansa is initially captivated by Joffery, his looks disguise his true nature.

Whereas in this show he looks like his personality, cruel and psycho.

[jurble]

On Ned being turned into a badass warrior - I'd point out that in the novels other characters seem to think that of him anyway. People think he slew Ser Arthur in single combat, and when King Robert comes to his bed after the fight with Jaime, he says something like "He slew two of your men, and you slew six of his." Even though all Ned did in that fight was fall under his horse.

[So1ar]

they seem to be gearing towards a rising conflict between ned and jaime. i have no problem with that since ned (very stupidly) thinks jaime wants the throne for himself. also, i don't really mind eddard being more badass than he was in the books IF and only if they don't make him better with a sword than jaime. if jaime comes off looking second best against ned i will freak out.

On another point what are peoples opinion of the seasons seemingly being extended. In the book IIRC Ten years is considered to be a long Summer or Winter yet the show seems to be going with a Winter lasting Twenty to Thirty Years.

where is that said? have you been listening to old nan's stories again?

[Xanrn]

On Ned being turned into a badass warrior - I'd point out that in the novels other characters seem to think that of him anyway. People think he slew Ser Arthur in single combat, and when King Robert comes to his bed after the fight with Jaime, he says something like "He slew two of your men, and you slew six of his." Even though all Ned did in that fight was fall under his horse.

No he killed the Lannister Captain with massive ease and maybe a couple of others, can't be bothered to find my copy.

[Lord of Autumn's End]

I think that Ned being made a bit more formidable as a swordsman isn't really a bad thing. I mean, obviously I'd prefer if he was portrayed just the same as he was in the books, but we know a TV adaption requires changes and this is a pretty tame one as far as they could go.

Besides, even if Ned isn't all that great, the fact that he and Howland Reed slew Arthur Dayne suggests he's perfectly capable of holding his own. Nothing we've seen so far explicitly shows Ned to be a great swordsman. To me, the line between Ned and Jaime about wanting to keep enemies in the dark when he fights them for real sounded more like a defensive retort than a threat or one-liner. And the fight between the two after leaving Chataya's brothel is almost certainly going to end with Jaime beating the shit out of him. Since Ned wasn't on his horse in the fight, his injuries will probably be inflicted at Jaime's hands rather than in a fall.