A bully getting what he deserves.

[Insert Edit]

Rockroi,

I have been there before too, thank you for sharing.

Thor,

I don't have relevant studies handy, but from the population of mentally ill kids I work with, police reports and reports to the teacher seem to do very little in stemming the tide of bullying. Most police reports don't stick.

The critical thinking question I have for you is why does the father believe that it would make things worse by reporting it to the police? Where does this belief come from? Why does it exist?

Well in my anecdotal experience, it goes to the idea of being a 'tattle-tale.' Telling teachers or authority figures only paints a bigger target on your back. It's a fine line.

I know with my daughter, we spent plenty of time trying to get her to tell authority figures LESS. Not to say that she shouldn't. But even her teachers were seeing her being targeted because she'd run to the teacher every time someone looked at her sideways. How big a deal is this? Can you handle it on your own? Do you need to involve the teacher?

[Sheep the Evicted]

There seems to be a consensus here that psychological bullying can be just as bad if not worse than physical bullying. Why is it then that so many people hold the position that physical violence, no matter how slight crosses some line and is inherently wrong? Apologizes if I'm getting the two group confused since I didn't keep track of names. I mean physical violence can be much worse than any name calling or social ostracism, but the vast majority of schoolyard (or bar) fights never even approach that level.

You seem to be getting us confused. There was no consensus; some people said physical violence was worst and then there was a wave of people who very vocally pushed the psychological abuse can be worst argument, probably based on their experiences. To my knowledge i'm the only person who said i think physical is worse because it crosses a line and shows that just about anything is fair game. Also Stego's examples of physical bullying are so much worse then everything else mentioned in this thread they were immediately considered the exception, when i'm not so sure that this is true.

[Rockroi]

At least we finally have confirmation that Ipsa and Rockroi are not one and the same.

Oh come on!

[The Progressive]

I speculate that we might see a decrease in incidents of bullying (and a variety of other school-related problems) if caning was to be reintroduced in the education system.

Totally unscientific speculation, of course.

[MinDonner]

I would prefer the mass introduction of telekinetic powers. Carrie White knew what she was about.

[Swordfish]

There seems to be a consensus here that psychological bullying can be just as bad if not worse than physical bullying. Why is it then that so many people hold the position that physical violence, no matter how slight crosses some line and is inherently wrong? Apologizes if I'm getting the two group confused since I didn't keep track of names. I mean physical violence can be much worse than any name calling or social ostracism, but the vast majority of schoolyard (or bar) fights never even approach that level.

I think the conversation about which is worse is mostly nonsensical for the simple reason that it seems like physical bullying would almost always be accompanied by psychological bullying.

if it wasn't, it would just be fighting.

[Trebla]

In Texas, paddling was still being done as of the early 90's. I know someone who was bent over the principals desk and ass-smacked with a large wooden paddle. However, I don't think "Thank you sir, may I have another!" was uttered.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

In Texas, paddling was still being done as of the early 90's. I know someone who was bent over the principals desk and ass-smacked with a large wooden paddle. However, I don't think "Thank you sir, may I have another!" was uttered.

Well, then I suppose it's safe to assume it wasn't Chataya.

[TrueMetis]

I think the inference is that Casey may have complained to teachers before, they did nothing, and that made him a "tattletale" even more 'deserving' of getting picked on. Hardly an implausible scenario.

Yes that sounds likely. Says something about the power of teachers.

[Sirius]

Yes that sounds likely. Says something about the power of teachers.

Or their willingness to do anything about a situation. It's a different environment, but I lifeguarded for a few years and watched no small number of kids get bullied day after day. Most of the lifeguards knew it was happening, nobody was going to step in without being asked, and many wouldn't have, even after being asked.

ETA: There, They're, Their... stupid school system failed me

[Greywolf2375]

I would prefer the mass introduction of telekinetic powers. Carrie White knew what she was about.

We just need to start importing bucket loads of chicken blood and this can be tested out.

[Spastic Plastic]

And that bully was only in the 7th grade. Imagine how bad it must have been for Casey to get to the point where kids even three grades behind him were bullying him. He must have been the punching bag/target for every bully in that school.

That really is mind-boggling, that Casey didn't stand up to a bunch of kids three years younger than him, until he was cornered by that scrawny little shit in the video.

I can sympathize with Casey, but I really don't understand why he allowed himself to be put in that situation. I was bullied for about a year in middle school, but I was scared of fighting back because the bullies were older and bigger than me. It took a lot until I reached my breaking point (I've related the whole story in an older post).

[brook]

That really is mind-boggling, that Casey didn't stand up to a bunch of kids three years younger than him, until he was cornered by that scrawny little shit in the video.

I can sympathize with Casey, but I really don't understand why he allowed himself to be put in that situation. I was bullied for about a year in middle school, but I was scared of fighting back because the bullies were older and bigger than me. It took a lot until I reached my breaking point (I've related the whole story in an older post).

I have a younger relative who went through an awful time being bullied. Now he is a BIG boy (at 11 taller than my husband, who is not a short man, and wider as well) and were he to fight back would do some serious damage.

The thing is though that, not only has he always been a gentle kid but he's also had it drummed into him so many times about how careful he has to be because he IS so much bigger than everyone else that its really just not an option for him. Besides the few times he did retaliate at all every authority figure at the school came down on him like a tonne of bricks because, despite being aware of the bullying, they could not see anything but a giant pushing around kids half his size.

His mum ended up moving him to a different school which did help, but not every parent has that option.

[awesome possum]

That really is mind-boggling, that Casey didn't stand up to a bunch of kids three years younger than him, until he was cornered by that scrawny little shit in the video.

I can sympathize with Casey, but I really don't understand why he allowed himself to be put in that situation. I was bullied for about a year in middle school, but I was scared of fighting back because the bullies were older and bigger than me. It took a lot until I reached my breaking point (I've related the whole story in an older post).

I doubt he "allowed" himself to be put in the situation. And I'd be willing to bet that most of his bullies are bigger, or at least taller than him, as he wasn't much taller than the runt.

The kid who comes after Casey at the end of the video is bigger than him. He's also the same kid who is yanked out of the frame at 4 seconds in the video (or at least the version I watched. I'd hazard a guess that whoever yanked that kid (let's call him D-Bag) back is also bigger than Casey.

If you watch the video closely, it becomes clear that this incident was nothing new. First Dick (or Richard, as the kid with the camera calls him that at one point) walks up and says, "I heard you been talking shit."

Casey replies with a confused, "huh?"

Dick repeats the question, at which point D-Bag walks into frame and I believe it is he who says, "what the fuck are you talking for?" before being yanked back.

There's the first punch, and you hear goads from out of view. Not gasps of surprise that Dick just straight up cold-cocked Casey, which means there's no surprise. Even the two girls Casey appeared to be talking to at the beginning just stand there. They don't really flinch or cringe or show any reaction besides backing up. This tells me everyone there knew Dick was going to throw a punch.

And the goads. First there's, "he's laughing it ya!" Then the kid with the camera brays a doofusy laugh before cheering Dick on with a "Go Richard go!" Dick takes another swing, which Casey blocks, and Doofus laments, "ah, this is getting sad, bro! Guess I'll just keep recording." A few moments later, "Look at that, who's that in the background?" It's the Girl who steps in D-Bag's way later on.

She also starts to step in right before Casey goes to slam Dick and says, "OK, that's enough."

After Casey slams Dick, D-Bag comes back into the picture. He sounds angry as he asks, "What the fuck you thinking, you fucking idiot?"

"Stop" you can hear the girl say softly, to which D-Bag replies, "Fuck you." She tries to step in his way and says, "I think you need to back off, he's done nothing to you" but D-Bag walks around her. Casey is already down the hall and around the corner, but as the clip ends you can see D-Bag beginning to run.

I might be completely wrong, but the tale that 42 seconds tells is enough to convince me. Casey has no choice in allowing it. He's been picked on so much his bullies are bored with the routine of torturing him. So much so that they goad others into doing it for them.

[Res ipsa loquitur]

So do I. This is not a contest; most contests have a winner. Says you. Your opinion of events is your own. You get to build a foundation on it; prop a life up on it. But the reality is that whether we think Casey was right or wrong, we all know one thing: at least now he knows. Casey now knows what it feels like to shed that victim skin. He had had enough. Once that occurred, that little shit with the horrid boxing stance got taken. And never so much as brushed against Casey again. Did not so much as look at him the wrong way. So now Casey knows which he will prefer and can adjust his actions accordingly. Yes, he may have gone too far (he hadn't) and yes their may be consequences (mild), but at least he empowered himself enough to discover what its like to make them stop. That feeling- one I can only imagine -will make Casey know he will never want to feel the victim again OR make him not want to be the defender again. But he knows.

"Shed that victim skin"? I have not seen anything so histrionic in quite some time. Why do you write so triumphantly about an act of savagery? I think the answer there is that its YOU who wishes he could shed a victim skin. Maybe you read how I did an act similar to Casey. Trust me, no "victim skin" was shed by me, and likely not by Casey. ALL I did was show I could hurt someone as he hurt me. Thats not noble, thats not admirable; in fact, what I did was pretty damn lousy. And, your desire to inflict pain shows me you are not all that removed from the tormentors. People can defend self without resorting to violence. What Casey did was disgusting. And its not defensible because you had an unhappy childhood. Really, I would have thought you would have known better...hurt as you claim to have been, I cant imagine why you are happy that pain was inflicted by Casey, even if its on someone you dislike.

Obviously, I take it a step further: nobody has a defacto right to hurt another

like that. And nobody gets to treat another like that. Its degrading, harmful,

demoralizing, rude, crude, and unfair. Nobody was going to make it stop.

Except, of course, the victim. Lets ask that little shit if he wants Casey's milk money now. And if he's got what it takes to take it. My guess? No. And thus Casey gets the reprieve from victimhood.

Yes, Casey had no right to do what he did regardless of how Richard treated him. No one, as you stated, has a defacto right to hurt another. And, Casey will be a victim if he continues to think of himself as one. Beating up a child wont magically make Casey's psychological problems ie, his "victimhood" disappear. And, maybe, Casey will become the bully that you so hate.

What ever gave you that idea? Its the first time I have ever mentioned it: here or really anywhere else. I brought it up because when I first saw the video I immediately started to tear up and didn't quite know why. And then I knew. And it stirred in me all the things I have been trying to deal with for a long time now. I would hardly call that "reveling." Its something that happened to me a long time ago, and my lack of action puts me to shame.

You showed clearly then and now that you are still choosing to live as a victim

of your past; that you live in your shame, that you bury yourself in the issues of your childhood, that your issues are, as you say "unresolved". Its clear in how you seem to be living and relieving your own issues vicariously through Casey's acts.

That's fine, for you. But, even you would agree, that that response was simply a byproduct of extraordinarily bad behavior. And its also untrue. What does not kill us can also make us weaker. Does suicide make us stronger? Can cruelty just be chalked up to a "learning experience" and the victim be sent on his merry way? Does somebody else's bad behavior somehow get credited with my own ability to move past that bad behavior? Its like crediting Andrew Jackson with Native American Casinos.

You do have a point there actually. A crystal with a flaw in its matrix will shatter when stressed; so to will a human. So yes, some people CAN be made weaker by events. And yes, to the strong, to the ones who have a good sense of self, it is indeed a learning experience, though it can take years for the lesson to be learned. To be sure, as a CHILD I did not know that lesson. As a child I was weak, and flawed, due to the very things that made me such an easy target for the derision of others...but not as an adult. And those horrid experiences taught me as an adult to be very secure in who and what I am. I do credit others behavior and the experiences of the past in shaping my personality; no one lives in a vacuum.

And please, do not include me in your version of improvement through pain. I do not think- not for one second- that the torment endured makes me a better person; I was a pretty fucking good person before I was descended upon. The bully does not deserve any credit in the good-graces and good behavior of the victim. That's just misplaced responsibility. Its like saying that the raped should be somewhat grateful to the raper for the crime done to them. Because it made them "improve."

I was a good person afterwords not because of the torment, but in

spite of it. Some ordeals- ones we undergo because of circumstances or

bad luck or the cruelty of others -can make us stronger, but that in no way

makes the struggling at that time acceptable. That's the problem here: the

struggle was finally, at long last, overcome. Why id that wrong? Or bad? Or

cruel? No. A young man stood up for himself over the cruelty of others. And

somehow that's wrong?

I guess I know how to make lemonade when I am given lemons. The torture I received as a kid did help shape who I am, and I know that, and am happy it happened, now, in retrospect. It DID shape me into the good person I was today, as a forge will shape raw metals into something beautiful. And I did not intend you to believe that I

did not believe I was good prior to the teasing, ...of course I was. The teasing

and taunts helped to refine the good qualities inherent in me. A young man did not stand up for himself as I saw it; a young man brutally attacked another child when he could have and should have walked away. This was not self defense; it was aggression. Casey's reaction was repugnant. That you cheer this show of violence merely means to me that you have allot of unresolved issues of your past.

And yes, ANYTHING can be a learning experience, and everything has an opportunity to be one.

No child- and no adults -should have to be made an accomplice in their own

torment, which is what these teachers were saying, misguidedly. Did it ever

occur to them that possibly the reason I was so upset- such a "spaz" -was

because I just could not take it anymore? And that by extension I should not

HAVE to take it anymore? In my day, it was just "boys will be boys" and we

had to "suck it up." That is- only recently -been changed. Children must learn

to stand up for themselves; to demand proper treatment (not special privileges).

And if some asshole and his buddy with a camera cannot be made to behave,

we cannot and should not dole out proportional punishments so that the victim

and the bully are somehow white-washed with the same overly broad brush.

The bully fought. The victim fought back. Big. Difference.

The adult is not making that child an accomplice in his torment, the adult is being honest and telling the child WHY it is happening and giving the child the power to make it stop. You and I did give those unkind children of yesteryear what they

wished for...whether it was our tears, humiliation, degradation, or what have

you. And the adults who told us that we were being teased because of our reaction to it were not laying blame on us, they were trying to help us NOT be victims by making us aware of our own faults in that matter.

I assure you that if we had not reacted as they wished, there would have been no reason for them to be mean and bully us. And in college, when people tried to bully me again, I did not at all give them what they wanted. And you know what? It stopped.

Watch it.

Or what? Dont make me laugh here.

You have to learn to say things better than you are actually saying them. I can

see you don't actually understand what torture is. It makes people believe

things they would not normally believe. Obviously, I deserve some blame in my

circumstances. But you know who deserves more? The fucktard who tortures.

The bully. That's where our ire and our energies should be aimed. And when

the bully finds the gaul to simply attack without fear of retribution- and low and

fucking behold - retribution finds him, our anger should not be in the form of

some morally superior outrage aimed at the person defending themselves.

That's pious incongruity, designed to make examples even out of those who

fight back. Its misguided, holier-than-thou tripe.

Yes, no one should torture others. That includes body slamming a child on

concrete. And, having experienced my own torture and torment as a kid, I

know well what it is. Not agreeing with your words doesnt make me unaware of what torture entails. As a child I did believe the unkind words, and had a few

bad years. Then I grew up, and realized that its only MY view of myself that

matters.

Of course I should be angry at that true show of excessive force that Casey

demonstrated. And, having undergone what amounts to childhood torture, I

do indeed know what it is. But, I dont wallow in that past misery, nor do I revel

in it like you are and thus feel a "revenge by proxy" as you seem to, when someone mistreats another. This boy who picked on Casey is NOT the child/ children who picked on you.

If you see my desires for people to stand up for themselves against

oppression, as being a form of bullying that says a lot more about you than it

does me or that video.

You did not desire for people to stand up to oppression. You wistfully desired Casey to "hit him again". You, an adult, wished a child to be beaten. You did not desire justice. You wanted him to savagely beat up a child because YOU were miserable as one.

My childhood sucked too. But, note that I do think it fair and just...or see it as some sort of sick revenge/ vengeance for the slights that I received that Casey acted as he did.

[Repman]

"Shed that victim skin"? I have not seen anything so histrionic in quite some time. Why do you write so triumphantly about an act of savagery? I think the answer there is that its YOU who wishes he could shed a victim skin. Maybe you read how I did an act similar to Casey. Trust me, no "victim skin" was shed by me, and likely not by Casey. ALL I did was show I could hurt someone as he hurt me. Thats not noble, thats not admirable; in fact, what I did was pretty damn lousy. And, your desire to inflict pain shows me you are not all that removed from the tormentors. People can defend self without resorting to violence. What Casey did was disgusting. And its not defensible because you had an unhappy childhood. Really, I would have thought you would have known better...hurt as you claim to have been, I cant imagine why you are happy that pain was inflicted by Casey, even if its on someone you dislike.

Yes, Casey had no right to do what he did regardless of how Richard treated him. No one, as you stated, has a defacto right to hurt another. And, Casey will be a victim if he continues to think of himself as one. Beating up a child wont magically make Casey's psychological problems ie, his "victimhood" disappear. And, maybe, Casey will become the bully that you so hate.

You showed clearly then and now that you are still choosing to live as a victim

of your past; that you live in your shame, that you bury yourself in the issues of your childhood, that your issues are, as you say "unresolved". Its clear in how you seem to be living and relieving your own issues vicariously through Casey's acts.

You do have a point there actually. A crystal with a flaw in its matrix will shatter when stressed; so to will a human. So yes, some people CAN be made weaker by events. And yes, to the strong, to the ones who have a good sense of self, it is indeed a learning experience, though it can take years for the lesson to be learned. To be sure, as a CHILD I did not know that lesson. As a child I was weak, and flawed, due to the very things that made me such an easy target for the derision of others...but not as an adult. And those horrid experiences taught me as an adult to be very secure in who and what I am. I do credit others behavior and the experiences of the past in shaping my personality; no one lives in a vacuum.

I guess I know how to make lemonade when I am given lemons. The torture I received as a kid did help shape who I am, and I know that, and am happy it happened, now, in retrospect. It DID shape me into the good person I was today, as a forge will shape raw metals into something beautiful. And I did not intend you to believe that I

did not believe I was good prior to the teasing, ...of course I was. The teasing

and taunts helped to refine the good qualities inherent in me. A young man did not stand up for himself as I saw it; a young man brutally attacked another child when he could have and should have walked away. This was not self defense; it was aggression. Casey's reaction was repugnant. That you cheer this show of violence merely means to me that you have allot of unresolved issues of your past.

And yes, ANYTHING can be a learning experience, and everything has an opportunity to be one.

The adult is not making that child an accomplice in his torment, the adult is being honest and telling the child WHY it is happening and giving the child the power to make it stop. You and I did give those unkind children of yesteryear what they

wished for...whether it was our tears, humiliation, degradation, or what have

you. And the adults who told us that we were being teased because of our reaction to it were not laying blame on us, they were trying to help us NOT be victims by making us aware of our own faults in that matter.

I assure you that if we had not reacted as they wished, there would have been no reason for them to be mean and bully us. And in college, when people tried to bully me again, I did not at all give them what they wanted. And you know what? It stopped.

Or what? Dont make me laugh here.

Yes, no one should torture others. That includes body slamming a child on

concrete. And, having experienced my own torture and torment as a kid, I

know well what it is. Not agreeing with your words doesnt make me unaware of what torture entails. As a child I did believe the unkind words, and had a few

bad years. Then I grew up, and realized that its only MY view of myself that

matters.

Of course I should be angry at that true show of excessive force that Casey

demonstrated. And, having undergone what amounts to childhood torture, I

do indeed know what it is. But, I dont wallow in that past misery, nor do I revel

in it like you are and thus feel a "revenge by proxy" as you seem to, when someone mistreats another. This boy who picked on Casey is NOT the child/ children who picked on you.

You did not desire for people to stand up to oppression. You wistfully desired Casey to "hit him again". You, an adult, wished a child to be beaten. You did not desire justice. You wanted him to savagely beat up a child because YOU were miserable as one.

My childhood sucked too. But, note that I do think it fair and just...or see it as some sort of sick revenge/ vengeance for the slights that I received that Casey acted as he did.

I'm sorry, you seem to be a likable person but this post is filled with me me me me me me and my my my my my my.

Regardless of what you've experienced, there are some pretty fu**ed up people in this world. Turning the other cheek, being the mature one and all of that crap won't work. Authority is not present everywhere in a school. A person like Casey will simply never enjoy high school, most likely. But why does he have to fear it as well? I'm sorry slam those bullies Casey- punch em, kick em, smash em-until they leave you alone to at least get through your high school days in peace.

[Insert Edit]

But, I dont wallowin that past misery, nor do I revel

in it like you are and thus feel a "revenge by proxy" as you seem to, when someone mistreats another.

You do seem to 'wallow' and 'revel' in your own journey a wee bit. Good for you? Not everyone else can follow your path though.

[Shryke]

I doubt he "allowed" himself to be put in the situation. And I'd be willing to bet that most of his bullies are bigger, or at least taller than him, as he wasn't much taller than the runt.

The kid who comes after Casey at the end of the video is bigger than him. He's also the same kid who is yanked out of the frame at 4 seconds in the video (or at least the version I watched. I'd hazard a guess that whoever yanked that kid (let's call him D-Bag) back is also bigger than Casey.

If you watch the video closely, it becomes clear that this incident was nothing new. First Dick (or Richard, as the kid with the camera calls him that at one point) walks up and says, "I heard you been talking shit."

Casey replies with a confused, "huh?"

Dick repeats the question, at which point D-Bag walks into frame and I believe it is he who says, "what the fuck are you talking for?" before being yanked back.

There's the first punch, and you hear goads from out of view. Not gasps of surprise that Dick just straight up cold-cocked Casey, which means there's no surprise. Even the two girls Casey appeared to be talking to at the beginning just stand there. They don't really flinch or cringe or show any reaction besides backing up. This tells me everyone there knew Dick was going to throw a punch.

And the goads. First there's, "he's laughing it ya!" Then the kid with the camera brays a doofusy laugh before cheering Dick on with a "Go Richard go!" Dick takes another swing, which Casey blocks, and Doofus laments, "ah, this is getting sad, bro! Guess I'll just keep recording." A few moments later, "Look at that, who's that in the background?" It's the Girl who steps in D-Bag's way later on.

She also starts to step in right before Casey goes to slam Dick and says, "OK, that's enough."

After Casey slams Dick, D-Bag comes back into the picture. He sounds angry as he asks, "What the fuck you thinking, you fucking idiot?"

"Stop" you can hear the girl say softly, to which D-Bag replies, "Fuck you." She tries to step in his way and says, "I think you need to back off, he's done nothing to you" but D-Bag walks around her. Casey is already down the hall and around the corner, but as the clip ends you can see D-Bag beginning to run.

I might be completely wrong, but the tale that 42 seconds tells is enough to convince me. Casey has no choice in allowing it. He's been picked on so much his bullies are bored with the routine of torturing him. So much so that they goad others into doing it for them.

Yeah, looking more closely at the video, Casey isn't beating up his bullies, he's beating up the tiny kid his bullies sent after him to humiliate him even more.

It's a controlled, recorded bullying by the large jackasses out of frame. It's all staged to get a picture of their target getting beat up by a kid younger and smaller then him.

The minute Casey turns the tables, the real bullies behind the camera jump in to reassert their control of the situation.

Why does he "allow" it? Because it's not just 1 kid vs 1 kid here. Bullying usually involves a group in my experience. If you can take 1 of them, they come back with 3.

[Res ipsa loquitur]

You do seem to 'wallow' and 'revel' in your own journey a wee bit. Good for you? Not everyone else can follow your path though.

Thank you. My path is indeed one to admire, I think. Overcoming adversity and all that. Gives me serenity, to reflect on my accomplishments in some areas.

I also find it admirable that I, as an adult, do not wish harm upon children, and find it deeply disturbing that some grown men and women do find good in the harm a child suffered.

And yes, not all can follow the path I took, or take. Never said anyone was required to do so.

[Insert Edit]

Thank you. My path is indeed one to admire, I think. Overcoming adversity and all that. Gives me serenity, to reflect on my accomplishments in some areas.

I also find it admirable that I, as an adult, do not wish harm upon children, and find it deeply disturbing that some grown men and women do find good in the harm a child suffered.

And yes, not all can follow the path I took, or take. Never said anyone was required to do so.

Well you've certainly convinced yourself.

As a parent, I want to walk a middle road. I want my daughter to continue to be her compassionate, empathetic self. However, I also want her to be assertive. And that's a fine line. You think it's very black and white, and I don't agree.

Boundary setting is incredibly important, ESPECIALLY for those with empathy.

Am I going to encourage her to go around body slamming people who oppose her? No. Am I going to give her a big hug and encourage her if she stands up to a bully by punching him in the nose? Yes.

Your story about the brace and being punched makes me think you struggle mightily with boundaries.

I know I do, and will probably always struggle with them. My life experience has shown me that fundamental life patterns are incredibly hard to break. So I read a lot of your 'I've got life figured out,' stuff as what you want to believe more than what's probably true.

Hard to know over the interwebs though.