Dog advice.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

Lady Tippy Wolfsbane: You obviously love your dogs, you have researched a topic, and developed opinions about spay and neutering. This is a very interesting topic and maybe it should get it's own thread because on some things you are correct. Spay/neuter is heavily sold in the US and there are some issues, although other than urinary incontinence you haven't mentioned the other compelling reasons we might be over-selling these surgeries.

Firstly, thank you for your civil response.

I over-sell spaying and neutering to people all the time. Do I feel it is wrong to not always inform people of the all risks involved, yes. I usually over-sell spaying and neutering to my friends and associates that I know breed for the sake of money. I know they will find anyway possible to justify not neutering their dog, especially the 'bully breeds', and that reasoning will have nothing to do with love or good intentions. Therefore, I totally understand the need for the surgeries.

Yagathai has touched on some of the issues I wrestle with each day when advocating what is best for their loved pets. Again, it's complicated and fascinating in it's own right.

I totally understood and agreed with those issues. I am not a lazy, irresponsible pet owner. If I were a notable breeder I would have never been attacked because I would be breeding 'purebred' money makers.

But... In my 17 years in the veterinary profession, in my day to day life as a practitioner, and in the entire history of the human race, I have yet to find a person that fucking needs to neuter his dog's more than the OP.

I totally agree.

I feel for the guy and am glad he asked for advice. And the correct advice, given by multiple people, was that he needs to neuter his dogs. This would solve his main issue and would also carry the benefit that the area bitches won't be spewing unwanted puppies from their wombs like gatling guns. In all complete honesty that is the only solution that is even remotely going to help him in this time of difficult decisions.

I completely agree. If you read my original post you saw where I advocated spaying and neutering to him the same as everyone else, although it was obvious by his responses to everyone else that he was not listening and it was not something he planned to do. Therefore, I gave him other options. One of which was to give up a dog if possible, while telling him to not get another female. I also tried to explain to him in a civil way why people had come at him so viciously because he had obviously been offended, and that was not helping the situation.

Your advice works for you but what posts of his makes you think that he has the capacity to prevent his dogs from ejaculating in every estrus swollen vagina in the region? For chrissakes, have you and I been reading the same thread?? Correct response for Rolex is that you should neuter your male dogs, because I guarantee you that in his situation that is the only correct decision.

Again, I completely agree...and that is why this has been so frustrating. I NEVER told him to do what I do because neutering is the devil. I gave him other options since he was so resistant to neutering. If he refuses to fix his dogs things could be bad...or they can be really bad. I saw it being really bad. I advocated neutering, but if he won't neuter them I chose to give him advice on other methods that he may try, instead of verbally attacking him and treating him as if he is stupid. Surely, everyone could see that route was not working.

I meant to be done with the thread after that, but I was then unfairly attacked, and only tired to defend my position. I was not advocating my position, simply explaining it.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

I didn't say that's what you said, what I said was that you are not showing the sources from which you gleaned this information. Until you do that, you sound like a crackpot on the level of people who don't vaccinate your children.

I thought it was obvious to everyone that cancer has been linked to genetics and nutrition. We hear this everywhere. My doctor has even had this conversation with me. That statement was all I said. I didn't say food caused cancer, or that removing ovaries was unnecessary, or that you can have ovarian cancer without ovaries, or any of those other outlandish things that you associated with my post.

Either way, I'll be a crackpot that believes food causes cancer and that neutering your dog is stupid, because I just don't care anymore.

[Balefont]

I believe that's what dub and chef are flirting about over in manscaping thread.

Gah, Terra, what happened to my post?!

[Balefont]

Since I think Terra accidentally edited out the content of my original post, I'll attempt to recreate it. (It's okay, T. :kiss: )

Lady Tippy Wolfsbane:

If I had a dog that had health complications that fixing him or her would potentially cause worse health issues, I would probably make the same choice as you with the expectation that I would do all I could to ensure unwanted pregnancies are prevented.

That said, it's statistically far better for dogkind that animals that aren't going to be bred in an ethical manner be fixed.

[Robin Of House Hill]

This will all end, badly.

I hate being right.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

Lady Tippy Wolfsbane:

If I had a dog that had health complications that fixing him or her would potentially cause worse health issues, I would probably make the same choice as you with the expectation that I would do all I could to ensure unwanted pregnancies are prevented.

That said, it's statistically far better for dogkind that animals that aren't going to be bred in an ethical manner be fixed.

Thanks for telling me, I had no idea.

[rocksniffer]

rocksniffer, you are definitely on my list of boarders to meet. :cheers:

well drop on by, I'll be the one on the porch with a bong in one hand a drink in the other, two beautiful spayed girls sleeping peacefully at my feet and one spunky de-nutted boy ... waiting for his hit...yes I know irresponsible right...but just so damned funny....

...let the next round begin.... :smoking:

[Howdyphillip]

Unless you are in to breeding for all the right reasons (pedigree, breed preservation, not for money, etc.), all dogs should be spayed and neutered. Not doing so is cruel because if you prevent them from copulating, they get pent up hormones (i. e. agression) with no hope for release.

I agree with the vast majority of your post. It is by far easier and better to have a dog neutered than to not do it. I do however disagree that not letting a dog mate is cruel to a non neutered dog. There are some dogs that do just fine dealing with their hormones. There are others that do not.

As I mentioned earlier, I have two dogs. One is neutered and the other is not. The one that is neutered was having problems with aggression towards other dogs, and that is the reason that I made the decision to have him cut. The other dog doesn't suffer from that, so I have left his dangles alone and take extra precautions to not allow him around female dogs.

For me, both decisions that I made were the right ones.

Is it not true that it only takes a minor slip-up on your part for your dogs to contribute to the breeding of unwanted puppies? Or are you that confident that your procedures as as foolproof as a surgical one in terms of preventing unwanted pregnancies?

I know that this wasn't addressed to me, but I would like to respond anyway. Part of being a responsible dog owner with a non neutered pet means that I am willing and able to care for any "accidents" that might happen. My Chihuahua and I have had discussions about this. If I get one set of pups from the neighbors bitch, then it is off with the nuts for him.

[Seli]

...

I totally understood and agreed with those issues. I am not a lazy, irresponsible pet owner. If I were a notable breeder I would have never been attacked because I would be breeding 'purebred' money makers.

...

There are always multiple avenues for discussion. In that case I probably would have linked to the BBC documentaries examining the show breeding and pedigree dog subculture in the UK, which do show the dangers that can result from some types of breeding pressure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedigree_Dogs_Exposed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedigree_Dogs_Exposed_-_Three_Years_On

While I would in no way want to imply a self-proclaimed breeder of fine animals is not aware of some of the pitfalls, it is always important to raise awareness of animal welfare issues linked to some breed specifications. Not only in dogs, I have seen pieces on similar issues with horses and cats for example.

[scotcat]

The best advice I could give, like so many others on this thread, is to get the dogs neutered. Unfixed male dogs will fight, this is what happens. Neutering will help with any agression, plus it will have health benefits for the dogs in the long run.

Unless you plan on breeding them - in a responsible manner - get them neutered.

[Balefont]

I agree with the vast majority of your post. It is by far easier and better to have a dog neutered than to not do it. I do however disagree that not letting a dog mate is cruel to a non neutered dog. There are some dogs that do just fine dealing with their hormones. There are others that do not.

As I mentioned earlier, I have two dogs. One is neutered and the other is not. The one that is neutered was having problems with aggression towards other dogs, and that is the reason that I made the decision to have him cut. The other dog doesn't suffer from that, so I have left his dangles alone and take extra precautions to not allow him around female dogs.

For me, both decisions that I made were the right ones.

I know that this wasn't addressed to me, but I would like to respond anyway. Part of being a responsible dog owner with a non neutered pet means that I am willing and able to care for any "accidents" that might happen. My Chihuahua and I have had discussions about this. If I get one set of pups from the neighbors bitch, then it is off with the nuts for him.

Hahaha.

Hey, as long as people are willing to take responsibility for unwanted pups so that they can live their lives in a safe and loving environment and not be euthanized, thumbs up.

It's just that responsible owners of non-fixed pets are far fewer that irresponsible owners.

Especially in the south. Many of the rescues in the northeast come from kill shelters in the south. Not exactly fair to the pets waiting for adoption in our no-kill shelters but people seem more likely to rescue a pet they know will be put down if not adopted.

[Tears of Lys]

My opinion on the whole thing is that your animal(s) should be neutered and spayed unless there's some extraordinary health consideration. There's just too many potential pets out there already. Go get some and stop letting them make more!

My Benny came to me with no balls. He's as happy of a dog as I've ever seen. Loaded with energy. I've seen many, many male dogs who were unfixed that were, quite frankly, real pests to be around just because of their behavior, not to mention the possibility of their running the streets.

My parents, on the other hand, have an unspayed female lapdog. She is my mother's shadow - never goes anywhere without her, even to their fenced-in yard. We've tried to talk them into spaying her, to no avail, and now she's a bit older and we fear it would be more traumatic than it's worth.

In the OP's situation, it's pretty clear that he/she should neuter his dogs. Whether he/she'll do it or not remains to be seen, but it sure is out of OUR control.

Public Service Announcement: RESCUE A DOG OR CAT! THEY'LL LOVE YOU FOR IT.

[IheartTesla]

Funny you should mention that, since I just bought a rescue dog over the weekend. They didn't even do a home check or anything.....

Not opening the spayed/neutered debate can of worms.

[Lyanna Stark]

Posting in awesome thread before it gets locked!!

[Ken Stone]

,Probably the biggest tragedy with all the euthanize dogs and cats is the large amount of waste. The animals are killed and then dumped in trashcans like garbage. It's f*cking sad. In a world where there are starving people I just can't behind this practice. That's perfectly good meat going right to the trash heap.

[Tears of Lys]

Funny you should mention that, since I just bought a rescue dog over the weekend. They didn't even do a home check or anything.....

Not opening the spayed/neutered debate can of worms.

:love: Pics as soon as it's feasible, please!

They didn't do a home check when I rescued a dog for my mother either. They wanted us to spay her and told us we had to show them proof, but there has been no follow-up so far. :uhoh: as I said, they haven't done it and won't.

[Deedles]

Op, Im sorry to reiterate the point but you really should get your dogs neutered. They don't need to breed. They do need a responsible loving owner ( and I'm sure you do love them).

My little Jamie is a purebred Westie. He has 2 GB champions in his pedigree and 2 Irish champions also. There are no crosses in his family tree going back 5 generations. From a pedigree pov he is pretty perfect. Having said that, come 8 to 10 months he is going in for the snip. Until then he will never be outside without a leash unless in the back walled garden.

(I would have liked to rescue but the rescues wouldn't let me adopt due to lifestyle. As i had to buy I ensured that I 1) bought from a breeder recommended by the Irish kennel club affiliated breeders club, 2) met the o owner and mother in their house a few weeks before buying, 3) checked how many litters she had had, 3 over 6 years including this litter and 4) basically had to pass an interview with the owner of the mother. I did this to ensure that I was buying from a reputable breeder and wasn't encouraging irresponsible accidents. Unfortunately op, i would class you as an irresponsible breeder)

[Nukelavee]

No check when I adopted Squiggle-pig either.

The shelter said she was spayed when I got her, she even has a scar that looks right, but, nope, she wasn't.

She still isn't, which bothers me, because, hey, it's my responsibility, but, meh, life and finances have made it impossible to ever have the money to do it.

On the other hand, she's never off the leash, or at the park in heat. Not taking a chance, and, unfair to the other dogs to be around her, as well.

She's the only dog I've had that I didn't get fixed, or who wasn't fixed when I got them.

When i was a toddler, we "had" a little black beagle, Pupper. Guess how she got the name? Evidently, she was a stray who discovered the dens a neigbour had built for his hunting dogs next door, and adopted us. That dog did pump out puppies like a gatling, but she was uncatchable when it came time to considering spaying her.

So, at least once a year, there would be a flood of puppies from the vacant lot... and then, Pupper would drive the pack like sheep, around the village, dropping off a puppy at each house.

20years later, a few memories clicked together, and I realized I remembered Mom and I in the car with a box of puppies dropping them off at teh university science labs.

So, yeah, I have to agree that we have to realistically consider our ability to provide homes for animals, if we aren't going to ensure that surprise breeding isn't going to happen.

[Kelli Fury]

There are a lot of low cost spay and neuter organizations out there to encourage people who are put off by the cost. Local shelters can tell you where to go.

[Tears of Lys]

No check when I adopted Squiggle-pig either.

The shelter said she was spayed when I got her, she even has a scar that looks right, but, nope, she wasn't.

She's the only dog I've had that I didn't get fixed, or who wasn't fixed when I got them.

When i was a toddler, we "had" a little black beagle, Pupper. Guess how she got the name? Evidently, she was a stray who discovered the dens a neigbour had built for his hunting dogs next door, and adopted us. That dog did pump out puppies like a gatling, but she was uncatchable when it came time to considering spaying her.

So, at least once a year, there would be a flood of puppies from the vacant lot... and then, Pupper would drive the pack like sheep, around the village, dropping off a puppy at each house.

20years later, a few memories clicked together, and I realized I remembered Mom and I in the car with a box of puppies dropping them off at teh university science labs.

So, yeah, I have to agree that we have to realistically consider our ability to provide homes for animals, if we aren't going to ensure that surprise breeding isn't going to happen.

:stunned: Shit and fuck in a handbasket. That's chilling.