Rape Victim in India Dies of Her Injuries

[Fragile Bird]

In the rush before Christmas I wasn't keeping up with world news, and on the weekend before I sat down and got caught up by scanning through a pile of unread papers. I had vaguely heard about a horrible rape case in New Delhi, and was truly shocked when I read about the case. A 23 year old woman had been out with her boyfriend, and caught what they thought was a bus to go home. The bus was a private bus with 6 men on it who beat up the boyfriend and then repeatedly raped and beat the woman before dumping both their bodies on the road. The initial story.

The article I read just before Christmas was a report that the doctors had been unable to save any of her intestines. She was moved to a hospital in Singapore for more advanced care, but just quietly died this past hour after succumbing to her horrific injuries.

I mean, WTF? Here is the updated story.

And then a 17 year old was raped during the Diwali festival, and police refused to charge anyone, suggesting she either marry one of the rapists or accept cash compensation. She finally committed suicide this week.

I'm not even sure what the purpose of this thread is, except to express outrage over what has happened to these two women. Apparently thre is such an incredible stigma over rape in India it is suspected the reported rapes don't come anywhere near the actual number. Why oh why do these things happen?

[Fragile Bird]

BTW, I see on the news the bus apparently passed through several police checkpoints while the men were raping the woman on the bus. Protests by women across India were met by police attempts to stop the protests with water cannons. And the attitude in India is that a woman who has been raped has dishonoured her family.

[Jolene Brown]

I am so sickened by this case. It is particularly disturbing to me that rape stats have actually shown a drastic increase in incidents in India since 1971, too much I would think to simply reflect an increase in reporting of rape.

[Datepalm]

Ah, damn. I've been following this and thought about starting a thread a few times, but it's just too fucking depressing.

Anyone with more familiarity with Indian politics/cultural attitudes/whatever one files this sort of thing under, are the protests likely to lead to any policy change? Attitude change? Culture war type stuff? I read someplace the government had semi succumed to the protests by putting up a public database of convicted rapists, but that sounds like both something of a symbolic gesture and one that I find troubling in itself.

On a lightly moderatory hat note:

Lets not bring Tysha into this. She's a fictional character.

[Fragile Bird]

Datepalm, I wanted to open a thread after reading the story but, as you say, it was just so depressing.

Naz is in India right now. Perhaps he'll see this thread and talk about what he's seeing and hearing.

[Tears of Lys]

That is just so fucking depressing that I don't even know what to say.

[sperry]

What the fuck is wrong with these cultures.

[Sci-2]

I'd like to see some actual data/evidence that confirms the majority of Indians in India find this kind of thing culturally acceptable, or that being a rape victim is seen as a dishonor to the family.

[Kalbear]

What, the US? Where rape victims are shunned, laughed at, mocked, told to their face that they deserved it or should have known better and are often so ashamed that they don't ever say a word?

India ain't that different. A couple months ago we had politicians saying that a woman who got pregnant via a rape should always have the baby, how some women "rape easy" and how women have ways of fighting pregnancies via rape. Not even ancient culture.

[Tears of Lys]

Please don't let this thread degenerate into a shit-fest where this horribly unbelievable crime becomes lost in the boarder arguments about whether the U.S. is better or worse than other countries. I heard about the brutal assault back a while, but didn't even want to post about it then just because I didn't know much of the facts. The fact that a women's protest was met with water cannons doesn't speak well, to say the least, but we'll see as the details come out. This story isn't going to go away, for sure.

[Robin Of House Hill]

Gotcha! The culture isn't the problem, men are.

[Sci-2]

I'd say India has a more patriarchal society, though there a high number of sexual/physical assaults in the US that don't get covered by the American media as well.

There are definitely cultural barriers to women's advancement in India, but I think a generalization that the entirety of Indian culture is at fault is as problematic as any other generalization. Fundamental attribution error applied to nations/cultures.

There are probably boarders who can give you a better picture of the various factors involved here - From my Indian-American perspective part of it is the cancer of a patriarchal society losing its grip and part of it is corruption/ineptitude of the police and justice systems.

[Lion of Judah]

This is really sad and just to think the majority of sexual assaults against women in India go unreported. There are some wicked people in this world, to do something like that.

[naz]

I don't have any new insight except that, yes, this is the top news story in the entire country right now. Everyone has an opinion on it and voices it stridently. The gist of the protests (mostly young people) is to see swift and severe punishment, namely hanging of the rapists. There are the usual calls for public castration and stoning, but no one is taking that seriously.

I just found out that the victim died this morning. It happened too recently for the morning papers so people will be finding out slowly throughout the day. I imagine a new round of protests will occur.

As for my own opinion... well, anyone who knows me on Facebook has already read my shpiel, so I won't repeat it here except to say that I'm against capital punishment for any crime, no matter how heinous. I also believe that this is indeed a cultural problem and therefore I don't expect it to change anytime soon; hopefully if we teach our kids right today, the next generation will be more respectful and appreciative of the stature of women in Indian society. Anyone who expects that more severe punishment or swift legislative action is going to change anything quickly in these parts is fooling themselves. India has very weak central governance (especially so now, as the current PM is essentially a lapdog of the party chief); all politics (and culture) in India is local local local. Until that changes, I expect more of the same for the time being. (I was going to say "for the foreseeable future", but I'm not that cynical... seeing some of the passion of the younger generation - including my students - gives me some hope that things will change in time. A very long time.)

[Robin Of House Hill]

It just angers me and I don't know whether to be angry at the rapists or those who condone their acts, first.

[Winter's Knight]

The thing with such incidents is that there is that the police/authorities have zero interest in actually doing shit. The Patiala rape victim who committed suicide had been trying for a ,month to get her case registered at a police station before finally giving up. The Delhi protests have been going on for a week and despite the fact that every news channel and paper has been up in arms over the horrible treatment of victims, the Patiala police did not seem to have even considered so much as registering her case, trying instead to coerce her into either accepting a cash settlement or marry her rapist.

Cops will openly tell women "If you go out, we can't protect you":

After a woman who worked at a Gurgaon pub was gang-raped, the local police has said women cannot work at pubs or nightclubs after 8 pm.

Delhi police, in April were caught in a sting operation expressing some very disturbing view:

(trigger warning: extremely crude victim blaming under the spoiler tag and in the article)

But all this effort is pointless because as Satbir Singh, Additional SHO of Sector 31 Police Station, Faridabad, puts it: “Ladkiya jo hai unko yahan tak yahan tak (he gestures to mean that women should cover their entire body, then carries on speaking)… Skirt pehenti hai. Blouse dalti hai; poora nahi dalti hai. Dupatta nahi dalti. Apne aapko dikhawa karti hai. Baccha uske taraf akarshit hota hai.” (Girls should be covered from here to here… They wear skirts, blouses, that don’t cover them fully. Don’t wear a dupatta. They display themselves. A kid will naturally be attracted to her.)

Sub-Inspector Arjun Singh, SHO of Surajpur Police Station, Greater Noida, clarifies the position further: “She is dressed in a manner that people get attracted to her. In fact, she wants them to do something to her.”

Further more, North India is dominated by Khap Panchayats,unofficial ruling bodies at the district and village level who promote a severe patriarchal and restrictive culture. Recently they have come under public scrutiny for for ordering and promoting honour killings, medievalesque judgements and blaming Chinese food for rapes. They do however constitute a strong voting bloc for the government and thus face much less retribution than they deserve.

[Lady Olenna]

I don't have any new insight except that, yes, this is the top news story in the entire country right now. Everyone has an opinion on it and voices it stridently. The gist of the protests (mostly young people) is to see swift and severe punishment, namely hanging of the rapists. There are the usual calls for public castration and stoning, but no one is taking that seriously.

I just found out that the victim died this morning. It happened too recently for the morning papers so people will be finding out slowly throughout the day. I imagine a new round of protests will occur.

As for my own opinion... well, anyone who knows me on Facebook has already read my shpiel, so I won't repeat it here except to say that I'm against capital punishment for any crime, no matter how heinous. I also believe that this is indeed a cultural problem and therefore I don't expect it to change anytime soon; hopefully if we teach our kids right today, the next generation will be more respectful and appreciative of the stature of women in Indian society. Anyone who expects that more severe punishment or swift legislative action is going to change anything quickly in these parts is fooling themselves. India has very weak central governance (especially so now, as the current PM is essentially a lapdog of the party chief); all politics (and culture) in India is local local local. Until that changes, I expect more of the same for the time being. (I was going to say "for the foreseeable future", but I'm not that cynical... seeing some of the passion of the younger generation - including my students - gives me some hope that things will change in time. A very long time.)

Are public castration and stoning still done? Because the irrational and emotional side of me thinks that might be a decent punishment.

The fact that the bus went through multiple police checkpoints without being discovered is really sad. And the fact that the police look the other way is heartbreaking.

I recently watched a movie about all of the women that were disappearing in Mexico back in the 90's. they were being raped and sold. Police did nothing.

It's just wrong.

[naz]

Are public castration and stoning still done? Because the irrational and emotional side of me thinks that might be a decent punishment. The fact that the bus went through multiple police checkpoints without being discovered is really sad. And the fact that the police look the other way is heartbreaking.

Public castration and stoning are NOT done. Not legally, anyway. Maybe in a few villages, but not generally. Police look the other way because they're not paid enough to give a shit. Most of an Indian policeman's income comes from bribes. I don't have any evidence to back this up with, but I also don't have any evidence that the sky is blue. It may be too easy to say that if we paid the police better, we would get better policing, but I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that if we paid the police well enough, they would be less tempted to take bribes. Very few educated Indians decide they want to become policeman... if they do, it's a high-rank administrative position which doesn't amount for much on the streets. The street-level constables and inspectors are filled from India's relatively uneducated population, whose life experience still informs them that in order to survive, you do the least you can for the most benefit. Unfortunately that usually means getting paid to look the other way.

Further more, North India is dominated by Khap Panchayats,unofficial ruling bodies at the district and village level who promote a severe patriarchal and restrictive culture.

While you are correct on one level, this is a bit of an exaggeration. Local panchayats had nothing at all do with this gang-rape in Delhi. Nor do they have much to do with crime and injustice in urban areas. Panchayats rule the rural districts and yes, this is a great bulk of the Indian population, but governance in most urban areas is by local politicians, party bosses, businessmen, and crime lords.

eta: I should clarify that I'm sure Winter's Knight wasn't saying that Khap Panchayats had anything to do with this particular gang-rape. I think the intent was that they foster a certain male-dominated culture and THIS CULTURE permeates into the cities because much of the urban working class that commits crimes like these are immigrants from villages. I was just trying make sure that people didn't misunderstand and think that Khap Panchayats have any influence in urban areas.

eta2: I should also clarify that it's not just the working poor that commit rapes. They happen in all levels of society; in the higher classes, they tend to happen among family members as opposed to the random gang-rapes like the one on the bus. I'm not sure which is worse, though. It's all a fucking mess.

[ants]

Although the Panchayats don't directly influence the cities, don't they have significant influence in the rural areas of the North, where a very large percentage of the population of the North is? I've read that they do have a large say on the justice in the areas and what is acceptable and not.

[straits]

Further more, North India is dominated by Khap Panchayats,unofficial ruling bodies at the district and village level who promote a severe patriarchal and restrictive culture. Recently they have come under public scrutiny for for ordering and promoting honour killings, medievalesque judgements and blaming Chinese food for rapes. They do however constitute a strong voting bloc for the government and thus face much less retribution than they deserve.

People get 'that look' in their eyes after chow mein.

On topic, when I read the article about the woman who died, I thought the calls for death penalty were over the top rage indulgence. But brain injury, organ failure, rape, loss of intestines (?!?!?) , lung infection all administered on a bus, after which the woman succumbed to her wounds? That calls for flaying.