Rape Victim in India Dies of Her Injuries

[naz]

Isn't this thing getting massive pressure - from the protestors? At the risk of being callous towards the actual victim, that's what I find really interesting and startling here. A fairly random combination of factors - particularly horrific case, central location, media coverage - seems to mean this one has hit a nerve, but surely the nerve was there to be hit.

There are three major reasons why this case has blown up as much as it has: (1) the brutality of the crime; (2) the fact that it happened in a metro city (which has already gotten a lot of bad publicity re: rapes and molestatation) to a middle-class student; and (3) the fact that the girl was not alone and had a male friend with her at the time.

Most reported rape victims in India are among the rural poor. This incident resonates with the type of people who are protesting (young urbanites) because it could've happened to them and because the standard psychological safety net - having a male companion - didn't do anything in this case.

This is why we need more leaders like Stannis..what a sad and disgusting story..those men should be whipped,flayed,skurged,gelded and flogged and then be hanged in public and left there for about a month for all to see.

Ugh. Sickening. What types of capital punishment, if any, are available? Hopefully these people can be hung, drawn and quartered.

Except that none of these things will actually deter rapists in India from committing rapes. Rapists in India aren't worried about being hanged or castrated. They do it because they think they will not get caught/convicted or because they think what they're doing is 'not such a bad thing' - that a girl dressed immodestly or walking about alone is 'asking for it'. This won't change with the threat of capital punishment; it will only change when sexism and misogyny is addressed at the very basic levels of society - the school and the home.

[naz]

Sorry, I had missed that.

What about the driver?

The driver is one of the six.

[straits]

Except that none of these things will actually deter rapists in India from committing rapes. Rapists in India aren't worried about being hanged or castrated. They do it because they think they will not get caught/convicted or because they think what they're doing is 'not such a bad thing' - that a girl dressed immodestly or walking about alone is 'asking for it'. This won't change with the threat of capital punishment; it will only change when sexism and misogyny is addressed at the very basic levels of society - the school and the home.

Some will be deterred. Maybe a small number, but at least you treat the incidents as more than statistics. The basic levels of society won't change overnight, and the rapes will continue in the short term.

edit: and you're taking rapists/murderers off the streets whenever you convict/execute.

[naz]

But the government does seem to be responding to the protestors - albeit in a piecemeal and stodgy fashion. Fast tracking the case, putting up the name-and-shame rapist registry. Legislation already appears to be on the books - it's not like rape is legal in india - but cultural attitudes (not particularly unlike in many other countries, but more extreme) see it poorly enforced and women bearing the brunt of coming forward. I'm wondering if the protests around this might lead to woman feeling more confident coming forward, to police treating them differently, to the general social attitude towards being a rape victim - or perpatrator - changing. Not overnight, certainly, but these things always go in fits and starts.

It might, yes. The protests are certainly not a bad thing. But it will all be temporary. No real laws are likely to change. For example, it's not legally considered rape to be penetrated by an object. Marital rape is not considered rape. The legal definition of sexual harassment is very vague, using terms like 'upsetting a person's modesty' or somesuch. These laws are not likely to change because the it requires too much effort by politicians to change them. Right now, they're all clamoring for action, but months from now, when the hypothetical legislation comes up for review, the same old douches in government will start whining about technical terms and vocabulary and start on their male-protectionist stances.

Or instead of laws, people will suggest stupid things like they've done in the past, e.g., impose a curfew for women after 8pm. That's what the local politicians think is the solution to the problem. Frankly, the current generation of politicians has no real interest in dealing with this issue. It's too controversial and no one wants to touch it with a ten-foot pole. Ultimately, this will all die down and the public and politicians will go back to freaking out about the price of petrol and vegetables.

[naz]

edit: and you're taking rapists/murderers off the streets whenever you convict/execute.

This has been proven false and is the main reason for much opposition to capital punishment for rape cases by those who actually know about this sort of thing. If the death penalty is invoked, judges will be less likely to convict because the death penalty is only used in the rarest of the rare cases (e.g., the lone surviving terrorist in the Mumbai attacks).

I'm sorry that I can't back this up with data, but it's common enough knowledge here in India.

eta: You take rapists off the streets when you give life sentences as well. The punishments are not the problem in India; it's convictions and reporting. Rape cases are rarely reported, and when they are, they stagnate in court for years. Also, many rapes are committed by family members; people are usually unwilling to send family members to the gallows. Yes, even if they are rapists.

[Kalbear]

Yeah - while there are plenty of rapists, there aren't plenty of rapists who repeat or do it regularly. These 6 for instance - no evidence that they did it any time before, or would do it again. Doing the death penalty doesn't help.

That being said, the six are now being charged with murder. And that does carry the death penalty.

[Winter's Knight]

Datepam:

This case is just the latest in a long lime of horrible incidents this year.The reactions you are seeing is simply people snapping. I am told that the conviction rate for rape cases in India is 25%, with a vast majority going unreported due to a combination of unhelpful police, social stigma and harassment from the rapist(s).

[Sci-2]

I like Kal's idea of only giving worker visas to women but sadly it'll never happen. I doubt the West as a whole wants to do more than cluck their tongues.

[Galactus]

Why would they? It's not as if anyone has their hands clean with regards to rape.

[The Monkey]

To call this act rape is an understatement; it's murder with sexual elements.

[Robin Of House Hill]

Why would they? It's not as if anyone has their hands clean with regards to rape.

Because it is easy to call attention to the misdeeds of others?

[Kairi]

In a country with an ancient history like India behavior rooted in cultural attitudes is not going to be changed on the basis of a handful of cases. The change that will advance the cause of women in Indian society will also have to change attitudes to the Untouchables and a loosening in the caste system, not so much in urban areas but in the rural areas. When you factor in the teachings of many religions, governance and institutional commitment, arriving at a change in behavior becomes even more difficult. Further, has alcohol or any other drug use been mentioned on the part of the rapists? I do not ask this as an excuse for the rapist but to float the idea that maybe it worked in conjunction with ingrained behavioral patterns.

I don`t know if the other females on the board can identify with this but as a woman when I read about things like this, there is almost a physical reaction in my own body. If I end up in the same situation, they might kill me in the end but I will damage if not kill one of the fuckers before they kill me.

[Tears of Lys]

In a country with an ancient history like India behavior rooted in cultural attitudes is not going to be changed on the basis of a handful of cases. The change that will advance the cause of women in Indian society will also have to change attitudes to the Untouchables and a loosening in the caste system, not so much in urban areas but in the rural areas. When you factor in the teachings of many religions, governance and institutional commitment, arriving at a change in behavior becomes even more difficult. Further, has alcohol or any other drug use been mentioned on the part of the rapists? I do not ask this as an excuse for the rapist but to float the idea that maybe it worked in conjunction with ingrained behavioral patterns.

I don`t know if the other females on the board can identify with this but as a woman when I read about things like this, there is almost a physical reaction in my own body. If I end up in the same situation, they might kill me in the end but I will damage if not kill one of the fuckers before they kill me.

It brings out an unwelcome violent emotion in me as well. If you're going to die anyway, like airline passengers after 9/11, take a motherfucker out before he's ready.

[Veritum]

First of all, the news reports did say the rapists were inebriated, and wanted to have some "fun". The use of the rods allegedly began when the victim fought back and bit one of the rapists.

I do agree with you, Summer Isle Chick and Tears of Lys, it does bring out violent emotions, and thoughts like 'fighting to the death', though I feel that is easier said than done. If you or I were to be in that situation ( and I sincerely hope that never happens) , I honestly don't know what I would do.

[Seventh Pup]

I've written and deleted a couple of responses to this. How can one respond to something like this? It is so terrible. This woman was tortured to death, for being a woman. I hope, truly and deeply, that some kind of meaningful change comes from this. But it makes physically sick to think about, and words seem hollow when trying to say that I wish her family, her boyfriend (who witnessed the whole thing), and her friend my deepest most sincere sympathies, and hope they are able to find peace and happiness with the memory of her life not the horribleness of her death.

[Zoë Sumra]

Blog post by a woman who has experienced Delhi's molestation culture.

The more violent assaults won't stop till the less violent incidents become seen as unacceptable.

[Robin Of House Hill]

This sums it up well.

So fuck you and your calls for long term change. Don’t waste my time talking about the next five years. Tell me what you’re going to do in the next five hours when your mother, sister or wife leaves the safety of her home and wades into the filthy muck of the city, telling herself that there’s a distinct possibility she may not come home unviolated or even alive.

[Pliskin]

Blog post by a woman who has experienced Delhi's molestation culture.

Wow.

And I thought Japan was seriously f***ed up with their rape fetish. I was wrong. It's a perfectly sane culture.

[naz]

That was the only part of the blog post that I took issue with. Everyone is expecting things to change instantaneously, as if the Central government (which doesn't even have direct authority over the local police) will suddenly authorize police officers on every corner in the city, and that these officers will suddenly be well-trained, educated, and actually interested in catching criminals. And that all the tens of thousands of rape cases in the courts will be processed in the next week and all the rapists will go to jail or be hanged. It's like expecting in the US that just because Obama won the election, it means that gays will be free to marry in every state by next week.

The ONLY solutions are long-term solutions. That's not what people want to hear, but it's the reality. You can't change an entire culture of +1 billion people through simple and immediate government action. Five hours? I'm sorry, but that comes close to invalidating all the good points the author actually made in the article. Yes, the situation is as bad as she describes. No, it will NOT change in five hours by any stretch of the imagination. Not in five hours, not in five days, weeks, or months.

[Kalbear]

It may not, naz - but it doesn't mean the desire for it isn't there. Nor does it mean you can't sympathize with that desire, or possibly be angry too. Saying to people who live in total misery that they shouldn't be miserable and should just wait for constructive change is just a smidgen horrible.