Deaf Twins Euthanised In Belgium

[Castel]

Linkz

Identical twins were killed by Belgian doctors last month in a unique mercy killing under Belgium's euthanasia laws.

The two men, 45, from the Antwerp region were both born deaf and sought euthanasia after finding that they would also soon go blind.

The pair told doctors that they were unable to bear the thought of not being able to see each other again.

The twin brothers had spent their entire lives together, sharing a flat and both working as cobblers.

...

Under Belgian law euthanasia is allowed if the person wishing to end his life is able to make their wishes clear and a doctor judges that he is suffering unbearable pain.

The case is unusual because neither of the men was terminally ill nor suffering physical pain.

Just days after the twins were killed by doctors, Belgium's ruling Socialists tabled a new legal amendment that will allow the euthanasia of children and Alzheimer's sufferers.

The major and controversial change will allow minors and people suffering from dementia to seek permission to die.

...

Last December, the Belgium-based European Institute of Bioethics published a report raising concerns over "the absence of any effective control" over euthanasia and "ever?widening interpretation" of the law.

The institute noted that over 10 years and 5,500 euthanasia cases not one had ever been referred to the police for investigation.

Not just for the story itself but for the possible amendment. Sci talks about how people often claim that "it's their body" when it comes to prostitution but would be uncomfortable if it included suicide (especially for minors). Having seen a lot of debate on this elsewhere I was wondering what people thought of the case and the new law the Belgians are pushing for.

[Tears of Lys]

It makes me a bit queasy when "mercy killing" is carried out by the government. I suppose safeguards are put in place to prevent abuse of the law, but still it seems you can't think of everything that might go wrong in such a scenario.

[Errant Bard]

It's not carried out by the government though, it's carried out by private doctors, at the request of those wanting to die. It's just made not illegal.

[Fragile Bird]

What makes me queasy is how the right to die keeps getting expanded. It started with people with terminal illnesses or in terrible pain, and now it's lonely people? Or would you say, blind people? And then the idea of allowing children to be allowed to kill themselves. It will be interesting to read reports of under what circumstances they would allow/actually allow children to kill themselves.

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

Honestly though, it's their life. Why should they not be allowed to end it if they so chose, providing they were totally mentally competent and of a certain minimum age (I'd say at least 25 unless perhaps they have a terminal disease before that age)?

Edit: The article said children would need parental approval, no?

[Sivin]

There's potential fo abuse in the system, but I have no issues with assisted suicide. Someone wants to die and it isn't a mental disorder, that's their deal. Personally, if I was terminally ill and got to the point where my affairs in order and I was ready to go. I'd do it. Though, I'd try to have fun with it, something like jumping out of an airplane without a parachute. Or strapping myself to 2,000 bottle-rockets.

[Errant Bard]

For adults, if they want to die, I prefer they do so in a way that does not monopolize people who are devoted to saving lives, does not make building explode, doesn't kill others with a stray bullet, or doesn't traumatize that unlucky kid finding their hanged corpse... and also a way where they go as peacefully and painlessly as possible.

For children, I'm against, they don't have the same rights as adults for a reason, and it would seem to be prone to bad abuse.

[The Anti-Targ]

There's potential fo abuse in the system, but I have no issues with assisted suicide. Someone wants to die and it isn't a mental disorder, that's their deal. Personally, if I was terminally ill and got to the point where my affairs in order and I was ready to go. I'd do it. Though, I'd try to have fun with it, something like jumping out of an airplane without a parachute. Or strapping myself to 2,000 bottle-rockets.

Well arguably the suicide of these twins was a result of a mental disorder. The reason cited was being unable to bear the thought of not being able to see one another. Another description for that mental state could be depression. There's not many cases where people want to kill themselves that don't involve some sort of treatable emotional or psychological disorder. These guys could have been worked throught he transition to blindness and they may have come out of it with a reasonable and happy life.

Having a terminal illness and being in intractable physical pain would be one of the few circumstances that would qualify for euthanasia in Anti-targistan.

[Sivin]

Deaf and Blind? I'd fucking kill myself, that's no quality of life I'd want to have. I mean, seriously? What are they supposed to do with their lives at that point? Learn to read braille and discuss it with each other via tapping morse code on each others' heads?

[Tears of Lys]

It's not carried out by the government though, it's carried out by private doctors, at the request of those wanting to die. It's just made not illegal.

I understand now. I misread the post and, for some reason, I thought the government was involved. :drunk:

I'm not against mercy killing per se, especially in cases like Anti-Targ mentions above where a person's suffering intractable pain from a terminal illness. Hell, I'd like to have that option myself.

Michigan, where I live, is where Dr. Kervorkian, the so-called "suicide doctor" or "Dr. Death" was from. He was on a crusade to legalize assisted suicide and went way too far. He landed in jail for it, in fact.

personally, I think a lot of assisted suicide goes on behind closed doors. Access to medicines where an overdose eases the patient out of his/her misery isn't unheard of, I don't think. Kervorkian just got into people's faces and forced law enforcement's hand.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Michigan, where I live, is where Dr. Kervorkian, the so-called "suicide doctor" or "Dr. Death" was from. He was on a crusade to legalize assisted suicide and went way too far. He landed in jail for it, in fact.

personally, I think a lot of assisted suicide goes on behind closed doors. Access to medicines where an overdose eases the patient out of his/her misery isn't unheard of, I don't think. Kervorkian just got into people's faces and forced law enforcement's hand.

That wasn't an accident. Kevorkian was engaged in open civil disobedience. Some people maintain that civil disobedience is ONLY appropriate when you are willing to to submit yourself to punishment for your disobedience. I happen to think that view is shit, but his actions fall within a long and distinguished history of opposition to unjust laws in the United States.

[Sixshells]

This is making me very uncomfortable. This is expanding the area of validity of assisted suicide very widely, not mentioning the potential abuse of this. I fear it might become an "easy solution" (for medical and social institutions) rather than provide actual help to people so they can get past the situation in question. It was not a terminal illness so I don't think it was very ethical for a doctor to help them do this without them having first tried to work through the transition, at least.

For children and people with dementia, I'm not sure about it. Children aren't considered responsible for a lot of things before a certain age for a good reason. And how do you tell the person with dementia is fully aware of the implications or isn't responding to some sort of pressure or influence?

I also doubt that with an ever widening range of cases where it becomes allowed to do it it's possible to keep hight standards of oversight on this practice.

The report (pdf) by the European Institute of Bioethics on euthanasia in Belgium mentioned in the article provides a description of the current situation, the future projects for widening the depenalisation of euthanasia, as well as its concerns for what they see as a trivialization of euthanasia and lack of oversight on the application of the law.

The part where they mention there is a growing trend of handing out an organ donor form with the consent to euthanasia form is troubling.

[Deedles]

While I hesitate to say I'm all in favour of this I really don't have much objection to it. I do believe in bodily autonomy as this falls in with that belief.

Provided there were periodic assessments over a period of time, personally I'd say a year, to allow change of mind and obtaining help if wanted, go for it.

Kids Im less sure on. On the one hand if we don't allow you vote on a government why would we let you make an irreversible life ending decision . On the other, who am I to say whether a terminally ill child in pain canter have the right of an adult albeit requiring parental consent.

[Ravenhair]

I suspect Tears is right, and a great deal of assisted suicides happen behind closed doors.

IMO, the key word in the OP is "sought." These men asked to die after learning what would befall them. Should they have been forced to stay alive, sitting through hours upon hours of therapy while they literally went blind, after already being rendered deaf? Would prosecuting the doctors who assisted them make any sense?

As for the amendment, at first blush, I could not fathom including children, but a child who is terminally ill and in unbearable pain....there would have to be so very many restrictions, conditions, and expert opinion requirements because of the potential for abuse.

[Seli]

Overall a good thing. These are two people who could only really communicate with eachother and now were losing that single mode of communication as well.

With the proposed changes the Belgians are moving closer to the Dutch limits, but I don't know exactly how their procedures match. But the Belgian system is apparently a bit more likely to grant euthanasia for the 'prospect of mental anguish' than the Dutch system,

In the Netherlands children can request euthanasia from age 12 (with permission form parents), at 16 they don't need permission but the parents will be involved in the procedure and at 18 people are treated as adults. Alzheimer's and dementing patients can request euthanasia as long as they are still of good enough mind to understand what they are requesting. (but I believe euthanasia of both young people and dementia patients is very rare)

One aspect of the process here is that one of the doctors in the process needs to have a long-term acquaintance with the patient, which is intended to prevent snap decisions by the patient.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

ViniS,

Deaf and Blind? I'd fucking kill myself, that's no quality of life I'd want to have. I mean, seriously? What are they supposed to do with their lives at that point? Learn to read braille and discuss it with each other via tapping morse code on each others' heads?

Yeah, Helen Keller, WTF was she thinking leading a full and rich life?

[MinDonner]

The only remotely controversial thing about this is the "assisted" part. These two guys could perfectly legally have committed the suicide themselves, and I'm glad that, having made that choice, they were able to do so in the most painless way possible and that the doctor would not be penalised for helping them.

[Winter's Knight]

Deaf and Blind? I'd fucking kill myself, that's no quality of life I'd want to have. I mean, seriously? What are they supposed to do with their lives at that point? Learn to read braille and discuss it with each other via tapping morse code on each others' heads?

Plenty of people with such disabilities manage to live whole and fulfilling lives.

“Speaking for the grotesques,” he said, “I beg to differ. Death is so terribly final, while life is full of possibilities.”

[Artas]

Plenty of people with such disabilities manage to live whole and fulfilling lives.

Sure, but wouldn't you say that is their choice to make? It's not as if anyone was forcing these brothers to kill themselves.

[Winter's Knight]

Sure, but wouldn't you say that is their choice to make? It's not as if anyone was forcing these brothers to kill themselves.

I was responding specifically to the poster I quoted and was not trying to question the decision of these brothers. Sorry it came off that way.