Doctor Who: Regenerated discussion

[polishgenius]

puts the lie to your claim that your resistance to change is because of dedication to the canon.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Canon says they can control how they regenerate. The reason why the Doctor cant is most likely because he's always dying at the time. If i ask someone to make a snowman, they can do it no problem. If i kick them in the balls first, different story.

[Lady Octarina]

The one problem I'd have with a female Doctor, really, would be dealing with the changes of his name on the subtitles on Latin languages.

There are pictures of the box. Supposedly there is spoilery screenshots from in the episode too, although I've avoided those. I mean it's only those who pre-ordered the dvd in America from some suppliers. Can't be that many people received it.

At least a couple hundred, I imagine. I've yet to see those pictures, but I'll believe you :cool4:

[Seli]

The one problem I'd have with a female Doctor, really, would be dealing with the changes of his name on the subtitles on Latin languages.

They already confuse some colonials by using British English apparently, so I cannot see them bothered about that.

And there are so many actresses that would be great in the role, perhaps not all affordable but that is another issue.

[john]

Cool. So it can happen or Corsair was an anomaly (based on the Master, Doctor and Romana maintaining their gender). With Who it all boils down to how good the execution would be. I don't think any of the current writers could do a female Doctor justice to be honest. I'd much rather they'd bring the bloody timelords back so we could have a female timelord thrown into the mix. I'd settle for ANY timelords. There's a whole generation who've never seen any other timelords except for the Master and Timothy Dalton. I think we've had enough time to focus on the Doctor - what would make him really unique is how he stands out from a whole race of Timelords.

They might even do it soon. If the fallout from the series finale is that the Time War is back on, he might well find a different way of ending it this time.

Also, for those who're interested here is what wikipedia has to say about Doctor Who canon.

[Jon AS]

The one problem I'd have with a female Doctor, really, would be dealing with the changes of his name on the subtitles on Latin languages.

Or in German. It even gets dubbed here. I caught a couple of minutes of that once, and if possible that felt even more wrong than any other dubbing. Doctor Who is just so quintessentially British.

[manmiles]

Actually, Douglas Adams wrote the Regeneration scene,

Of course, given that we've seen Time Lords create 'mental projections' of future regenerations (the Watcher in 'Logopolis' and K'anpo/Cho Je in 'Planet of the Spiders' who was also clearly meant to be of Middle-Eastern appearence), who knows what the attitude of Regeneration is to Time-Lords who don't spend their time running around in high risk situations. Maybe for Time Lords and Time Ladies of Romana's era, the first regeneration is more of a frivolous thing.

[Werthead]

The problem is that if it's a random event why hasn't the Doctor been female assuming 50/50 odds? If it's an active choice then why has the Doctor never tried it before and does it reflect badly that he hasn't?

I wouldn't say so. I mean, we can switch genders if we really want to, and it doesn't reflect badly on us that those of who haven't, haven't. Time Lords who use regeneration as an opportunity to switch sexes can be categorised as transgender people who simply have a built-in mechanism allowing them to do it rather than having to shell out for expensive and long-lasting surgery. It doesn't reflect badly on everyone else who chooses to stick with the sex of their birth ;)

I also fear what the writers would do with a female Doctor - it could be a very spectacular and insulting mess if the writers made the Doctor different on what they perceived as feminine traits. Now, if the Doctor was essentially the same but character's reactions to him/her changed that could be really interesting. It would be the one scenario where I'd tolerate a Doctor/companion love interest if the Doctor's gender changed mid-relationship. I just fear more could go wrong with the idea than could go right.

I actually think it's a difficult idea for the BBC to approach in the context of the on-going series. If they do it and the audience simply doesn't buy it, the show's in trouble, even if the actress is terrific. I don't think they'd go for it unless it was a one-off special (maybe like a web serial) where they can gauge reactions without committing to the idea permanently.

Also, for those who're interested here is what wikipedia has to say about Doctor Who canon.

Pretty much. The absolute bottom line is that the TV series - including the old and new series and the 1996 TV movie, and the BBC spin-offs - are all canon. Whether other stuff (novels, computer games, short stories, audio plays) is or not is the grey area the BBC has refused to dwell on. But if it's in the TV series, it's definitely canon, and the TV series has said, explicitly that Time Lords can change sex. And certainly the more recent statement of canon (from The Doctor's Wife) trumps anything written by someone thirty-five years earlier.

[DaveSumm]

I'd much rather they'd bring the bloody timelords back so we could have a female timelord thrown into the mix. I'd settle for ANY timelords. There's a whole generation who've never seen any other timelords except for the Master and Timothy Dalton. I think we've had enough time to focus on the Doctor - what would make him really unique is how he stands out from a whole race of Timelords.

Until very recently, I hadn't realised that the Time War was a recent thing. I assumed this was always the backstory to the Doctor all through OldWho. And to be honest I prefer it that way, a lot. It reminds me of how Superman's story is given its poignancy by casting him as the last of his race, and so he chooses to save his adopted home when he can.

I think post-Time War Doctor has a far more fascinating existence; he's guilt-ridden over his role in time-locking Gallifrey, and spends his time roaming time and space. It should be the greatest life possible, but it's hampered by the irony that it's the only one he has. He has no home to go to, no fellow Gallifreyan's to converse with. He probably gets incredibly lonely, so despite his better judgment, he brings along companions from time to time. And all to no particular end. He has no real direction or goal, so he simply helps when he can and cherishes life.

I don't fully understand how OldWho worked - what was the Doctor's job? Why did he do what he did? Did he have a mission? How much did Gallifrey play a role? Did he go home much? Did all Time Lords wander aimlessly for no reason? Do they all have Tardis's? I know it's always been a bit obscure, but even without much info to go on the Time War definitely changes the Doctor's entire character.

[manmiles]

I don't fully understand how OldWho worked - what was the Doctor's job? Why did he do what he did? Did he have a mission? How much did Gallifrey play a role? Did he go home much? Did all Time Lords wander aimlessly for no reason? Do they all have Tardis's? I know it's always been a bit obscure, but even without much info to go on the Time War definitely changes the Doctor's entire character.

Job- Nothing really, apart from saving the Universe.

Why did he do it?- Exploration, scientific-research, pure enjoyment of not staying on Gallifrey and merely observing.

Mission- Not really.

Gallifrey- Not so much, unless the plot demands it.

Going home Much?- Not unless the plot demanded it. It was a joyful exile.

Time Lord Wandering- They preferred to sit at home and do nothing. The ones who don't are either evil renegades who want to take over the Universe for no reason or the Doctor.

TARDIS- Not really.The TARDIS' Time-Lords like the Doctor, the Master and the Rani have are all stolen. The Time Lords don't go out much. Except maybe for milk.

[Werthead]

I don't fully understand how OldWho worked - what was the Doctor's job? Why did he do what he did? Did he have a mission? How much did Gallifrey play a role? Did he go home much? Did all Time Lords wander aimlessly for no reason? Do they all have Tardis's? I know it's always been a bit obscure, but even without much info to go on the Time War definitely changes the Doctor's entire character.

The Doctor was a renegade. He stole a TARDIS to see the universe. The other Time Lords used TARDISes apparently for observation and for fixing problems as they arose, most notably when other races developed time travel. They weren't supposed to interfere (it was inferred there was a Prime Directive analogue about non-interference, though it was never codified as such), although the Doctor did, reasoning it was callous to stand aside whilst innocents died.

Gallifrey didn't play a major role. The Doctor sometimes went home (sometimes against his wishes) and got involved in stuff going down there, but it was very rare. Gallifrey appears in just 6 out of 155 serials in the original series. The Doctor doesn't seem to have any family beyond his granddaughter (who travelled with him before electing to remain on Earth in 2164) and few friends, so there was no real reason to go home.

The Doctor's status as a renegade did change after The War Games, the final story of the Second Doctor (Patrick Troughton). The Doctor was put on trial for violating the Time Lord rules on non-interference, but argued persuasively that he'd done good and helped people. The Time Lords accepted this and exiled him to Earth in the 20th Century (fortunately coinciding with multiple alien attacks on the planet). After the Doctor saved Gallifrey from a rogue Time Lord named Omega, his exile was lifted and he was allowed to travel in time and space again. The Time Lords also sent him on missions. We later found out that the Time Lords had a secret service called the CIA - the Celestial Intervention Agency - which did interfere in the Time Lords' interest, and the Doctor seems to have been used by them to carry out actions requiring deniability, such as trying to wipe out the Daleks at the moment of their creation. The Doctor can thus also be seen as a reluctant rogue agent serving the Time Lords' interests, not always in a very nice way.

[Derfel Cadarn]

He also became President of Gallifrey a couple of times, but buggered off sharpish to avoid the responsibility.

[The Killer Snark]

The fact that only female Time Lords can change their appearance at will was established with Destiny of the Daleks. Who cares about the revisionism of Nu Who? Will you have a female James Bond, just for the sake of it? The argument is preposterous, people. Would you have a white guy playing Malcolm X, just because he's the best actor for the role?

[The Killer Snark]

As soon as PC attacks fictional canon, in order to establish the idea that there is no such thing as seperate culural identity, we are all fucked. Ultimate objective of hardline communism. Nobody is an individual. Everybody is the same.

[Proper Dave]

All we have to indicate that Time Lords can change gender when regenerating - so far - is an anecdote told by the Doctor, who - as we're told all the time these days - lies. In the Classic series it certainly seems that Time Lords and Time Ladies are separate genders, but it's never stated explicitly.

[red snow]

Canon says they can control how they regenerate. The reason why the Doctor cant is most likely because he's always dying at the time. If i ask someone to make a snowman, they can do it no problem. If i kick them in the balls first, different story.

LOL - that's a good analogy. He never has the chance to think "maybe I should be a woman".

I also liked Wert's reasoning for why sticking to a gender would be perfectly fine.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Destiny didnt establish that only female time lords canchange at will, all it established was that Romana can - and that was under controlled conditions without any obvious injurt we could see. With nothing to the contrary to contradixtct it, its logical to assume both genders can. Maybe some individuals of either gender lack the ability. But the latest episode established the Doctor has the ability too, and this does not clash with anything previously stated.

[Derfel Cadarn]

As soon as PC attacks fictional canon, in order to establish the idea that there is no such thing as seperate culural identity, we are all fucked. Ultimate objective of hardline communism. Nobody is an individual. Everybody is the same.

Yor confusing established canon with your personal preferences. Theres nothing stated about it either way in the classic series. The new series has the newly regenerated 11th dr confirming his gender, and stating in The Doctors Wife that the Corsair had changed gender. He could be lying but given he thinks they're about to meet him/her it would be a weird thing to lie about. Its likely most time lords stay the same gender, but its now established that the ability is there , and nothing ever directly said otherwise.

[felice]

Destiny didnt establish that only female time lords canchange at will, all it established was that Romana can - and that was under controlled conditions without any obvious injurt we could see.

Assuming Romana can only regenerate a finite number of times, which seems a safe assumption, there must have been some reason for her to use one up. Possibly a preemptive regeneration to deal with a degenerative condition of some kind (either from radiation poising etc during the Armageddon Factor, or some untelevised incident)? And by choosing to trigger the regeneration before the damage reaches the critical point where it happens automatically, she is able to exert more control over the process than the Doctor does, holding her body in a state of flux for some time before finalising her new form. The only time the Doctor regenerated when not on the point of death (a punishment imposed by the Time Lords), he also had a range of potential bodies to choose from, though he wasn't in control of the process himself.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Pretty much. Maybe 10 could have chosen his next form if he'd regenerated right after his radiation poisoning rather than spend the time visitng old acquaintances?