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Ran

How would you rate episode 309?

How would you rate episode 308?  

1,329 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      11
    • 2
      3
    • 3
      4
    • 4
      9
    • 5
      10
    • 6
      15
    • 7
      27
    • 8
      144
    • 9
      300
    • 10
      804


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certainly one of the best two or three of the season (maybe the best) and almost the best by a good margin.

it showed a. that the writers are capable of great things when they sit down and plan to write an episode of television, and not a compilation of scenes

and b. that too often, they just mash things together. the dany scenes were just stuck in there and would have been better off in another episode when they could have breathed a bit more. extending the run up to the massacre would have made the episode even better

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All the Dani stuff was horrible, just horrible through and through. The rest was ok, a few bizarre changes as usual.

The RW was brutal though!

I give it 6.

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A VERY strong 9/10

I would have loved to give it a 10/10, but there were some things that didn't make me feel it was a perfect episode. This was one of the greatest episodes of GoT, and it was so full off spectacular moments that I'll not even try to tell about all of them. Highlights for me were: The Hound and Arya, "no more Hodoring!", Rickon and Bran :frown5: , Jorah, Daario and Grey Worm as the three musketeers, all the gruesome deaths (four important characters and a direwolf died in this one episode, now that's brutal), and the performances of pretty much all the actors at the RW, Roose just letting Cat see the chainmail sent shivers down my spine. The scene was heartbreaking, and I'm currently really, really sad and melancholic, everything seems so meaningless :crying: . Michelle Fairley crushed my heart, and that part where she pleaded Robb to save himself was even more heartbreaking than in the book. RIP Robb, Cat, Talisa, old man who got shot by Ygritte and all you northmen who didn't deserve what you got (no RIP to Orell, didn't like you).

What left me a bit disappointed, and was the major reason for this rating not being a 10, was the music during the RW. It wasn't chaotic and loud, and the Rains didn't play when the slaughter actually started. AND WHERE WAS THE DRUM? WHY COULDN'T THEY KEEP THE DRUM?! That drum was one of the things about that scene that still haunts me in my dreams, and I have NO idea why they didn't have it in the show. At first I thought Cat's final moments were a bit odd, but when rewatching (yes, I actually managed to rewatch the scene), I understood how we got to see that her scream when she cut Walder's wife's throat was her dying scream. She lost her will to live, and while she did not claw her face, it left us with a pretty haunting image, though my gripe is that it looked a tad fake.

Edited by The Lord of Cinder

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10. They got it pretty much perfect. Harrowing. The substitution of Frey's wife for Jinglebell never made any difference. Catelyn never tore her own face apart before she died as she does in the books, but it was still an uneasy watch. Having Robb's wife die first instead of disappearing as she does in the books was an excellent idea. I wonder how people out there who haven't read the series are going to feel about this episode. Having read the series first, I'm still disquieted by the carnage that ensued.

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The best episode yet. The worst episode so far, just gut wrenching. I gave it a 10.

The only objection I have to it should actually fall on the earlier episodes, which didn't do ANYthing to set up how important the guest right tradition is in Westeros/Essos world. In the books they foreshadow that, mentioning it at least 2 or 3 times before the RW.

GRRM sure likes to crank up the emotional investment that his readers have to put into his books. The Frey hatred on Twitter is good evidence of that.

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How often can you repeat "Excellent production values, good actors, great plot"? They are default positions.

Episode-by-episode, analysis would naturally instead focus on the things that stand out in the depiction, and particularly the things that don't work. Why those rather than the things that do? Well, because it's an adaptation, usually "what works" is stuff that we're already familiar with: story and character and plot points from the novels. Saying "the Red Wedding is great" is something we've all heard for for over a decade. Saying "the adaptation did not establish the same atmosphere as the novel" is something we could not say before yesterday.

this statement seems a little strange to me. So basically, there are only 2 categories of things book readers could possibly like about the show.

1) the acting, which is "good" and the production values which are very good. but we have mentioned these things so they're not worth mentioning again.

2) the plot, because it's the plot we already know and love. and, based on a lot of comments i see here, we only appreciate the plot insofar as it replicates faithfully the plot from the books, which is good a plot. again, this is not worth mentioning because everyone knows we like the books.

therefore: any specific comments about an episode must be negative.

They way I look at it:

Every episode is full of innumerable choices (or flourishes or quirks or their own personal "spin", etc.) that the actors and crew have made/added, when given the established framework of book. The choices are specific and they can and should be discussed. A lot of us happen to like many of these choices that the show made. As a result, we tend to like the show in general and take pleasure in discussing how these specific choices impressed us and why.

Likewise, another group of people dislikes almost all of these specific choices and as a result don't seem to like the show much at all. They of course like the books on which it is based, they appreciate that someone attempted to bring them to life onscreen, and they believe the people behind the show (with the exception of David and Dan, who tend to do things wrong) are largely competent professionals from an objective standpoint, but they don't enjoy the overall product. Why not? Mostly--I seem to hear--because it's not like it was described in the books.

So I don't think it's as simple as "everything good to say about the show has already been said" and does not bear repeating; it could be that you don't think it's a very good show (and certainly not a good adaptation) and just don't enjoy it that much

EDIT: I should also state that the above was only responding to Ran's specific comment (and many similar comments by book readers) and not to Elio's show analysis in general, which is quite balanced and regularly goes into specifics regarding likes and dislikes. All the more reason I thought the statement was strange.

Edited by Khal Pono

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I tried watching the episode again, but as soon as I saw Robb and Cat I had to turn it off again. The ending was so distressing that it may take me a few days before I can rewatch it. Am absolutely dreading re-reading these chapters once I get to them!

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Khal Pono,

I said "usually" what works. Given that about 90% of the story and the characters is from the books, it's not a surprise that 90% of what works is also from the books.

But there are things they add that work well -- Joyeuse as Catelyn's victim was smart, Theon in that candle-lit room on Pyke, Irri and Rakharo's arguments, Ned spotting Arya and directing Yoren's gaze to her -- that one praises. But they are relatively few and far between, since again, 90% of what's on the screen is from the novels.

One need not say, "Hey, the story is good." It's a given. That's the source material, it's being adapted because it's good. So how well do they do it? And where do they deviate, and why, and how well does that work?

That's the way I view it, of course. There are many who choose to simply put the books aside and simply watch it as a show. That's their right.

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No, it only matters to the people who assume that a Robb Stark who has never warged before and about whom nobody says that his eyes roll at the moment of his death somehow did a warg level 100 trick and entered Grey Wind. The only evidence is that a continuity error would suggest he had extraordinary physical power and some dialogue that would suggest warg dreams, completely different from entering your wolf at the moment of your death.

It's never been stated by Martin but every Stark child we've had a POV of has been able to warg into their direwolves with the exception of Sansa. And that's just because Sansa's wolf died too early. The only reason we never see Robb do it is because we're always looking through Cat's perspective. We do know that Greywind was always at his side though and Robb would talk about him often. Wargs are known to enter their animal's bodies once they die. We've seen it multiple times in the books and never has a warg died without shifting. Robb didn't have to be a master warg or even understand what his "dreams" actually meant to enter the body of Greywind upon his death.

I also don't know how it is possible to criticize the evident anti-conventional and anti-climatic quality of GW dying like he did and Arya seeing it (and assuming what happens from it), as opposed to him being liberated by a Westerling and going down fighting.

Robb's wolf died like he did in the books because either he warged into him (like I believe) or he felt his master die and fell into a rage. Greywind was a fierce, Northern beast who went out like a Southron poodle in the show.

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I'll preface this by saying I gave this episode a 10. There were several nitpicky things that bugged me, but those were lost in my awe for the great adaptation of the RW. I was really worried going into this episode that they would rush it, or it wouldn't be as severe as the books, or they would dramatically change some aspect of the murders. I feel like D&D did just about as good of a job as the could considering the limitations and format of the current show.

Things I loved:

The humorous lines and quips towards the beginning of the event. Showed just how clueless the Northmen were.

How they spaced out the drama during the RW. It wasn't just one long scene but an event throughout the episode.

The shutting of the door and The Rains of Castamere.

Cat's slow realization and Roose's sly glances at her and Robb.

Cat's acting... just, wow. Brilliant.

I was surprised how much I cared about Talisa's murder. I really didn't care for her character in the show at all. But the brutality with which she is stabbed while being pregnant just caught me off guard. I think I audibly gasped. The carnage was just perfect in keeping true to the goriness of the book. Glad they didn't sugarcoat anything.

Things I thought could have been improved:

The biggest peeve I had with the scene was that the Northmen did not fight back at all. I know they were caught by surprise and had no weapons, but it was the same in the books and they still managed a small counter attack. Where was the Greatjon clubbing people in the head with chunks of meat? Where was the table being flipped over to use as a shield with crossbow quarrels flew around? I would have liked a little resistance.

Would have liked a little bit more of the dread seeping into Cat's mind. Where was the spurned dance which originally led to Catelyn's discomfort? Or looking around and noticing the "moderate" Frey's all missing from the hall. Which brings me to also realizing that we didn't get to see any of the Frey brood's unease.

Roose's drive-by knifing was kind of strange also.

Missed the annoying discordant music and poor fare. It is a small detail but goes along with the slow ramping up of the feeling that something is wrong.

I don't know if Roslyn wasn't informed of the plan, but she seemed a bit too happy to me.

Also I am hoping we will see the large part of Robb's army being slaughtered outside the walls in the next episode.

I realize I am nitpicking here, these are simply observations.

I don't understand people questioning Robb's lack of sadness or emotion at the death of his pregnant wife. He was just completely taken by surprise by Frey's hostility after seemingly offering them his hospitality and protection. That is something that was never broken; A sacred vow. He was clearly in shock. I thought it was played nicely.

Now don't get me wrong, I loved the episode. That is why I gave it a 10. That being said, I hated the Yunkai sneak attack that Jorah, Grey Worm and Daario pulled off. Seriously, what the hell was that? I felt like I was watching Power Rangers. And they get flooded by a huge number of guards, yet come back to say they just threw down their weapons despite outnumbering the attackers over tenfold? Weird.

Arya's scenes with The Hound were great.

Didn't really care for Jon and the wildlings scenes. Would have liked a little more recognition with the dire wolves. On the other hand, if he didn't high tail it out of there he would have been cut down or shot.

Bran and co. I was actually surprised with. That is one story that I haven't cared much for thus far, but I enjoyed the scenes in the last episode. Rickon speaks out of nowhere!

2 things that made my laugh my ass off during the episode:

YER A WIZARD, SAMMY

YER A WARG, BRANNY

Edited by Snookson

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I'd have to say that Danys storyline kind of seemed a little confused. The fight scene was decent but they cut away when her guys looked like they were going to be slaughtered and did not do a good job in explaining how they survived and ended up winning the day. Would have liked to see Dany and Barristan conversing similar to the way they did in the book while waiting for the outcome. I suppose they will have other oppurtunities to do this going forward.

I'm sort of up in the air about the RW show version. One thing that never made sense in either the book or the TV version is how Robb did not know about Bolton capturing and releasing Jaimie.The whole garrison of Harrenhal knew Jaimie had been there, it was not a secret. Overall there were to many clues in the books, things that should have put Robb and his people on their guards There are a lot fewer holes in the TV version, its more beleivable that Robb fell into this trap but it did lack some of the subtlties of the book. I gave the episode an 8, would have been higher but Danys stuff was weak.

I want to add that I agree with Snookson. Robb was in shock and was trying to die with honor on his feet like the fellow at Queenscrown. His wife was dead, his kid was dead, he was dead and he just wanted to get on with it.

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I'd have to say that Danys storyline kind of seemed a little confused. The fight scene was decent but they cut away when her guys looked like they were going to be slaughtered and did not do a good job in explaining how they survived and ended up winning the day. Would have liked to see Dany and Barristan conversing similar to the way they did in the book while waiting for the outcome. I suppose they will have other oppurtunities to do this going forward.

I'm sort of up in the air about the RW show version. One thing that never made sense in either the book or the TV version is how Robb did not know about Bolton capturing and releasing Jaimie.The whole garrison of Harrenhal knew Jaimie had been there, it was not a secret. Overall there were to many clues in the books, things that should have put Robb and his people on their guards There are a lot fewer holes in the TV version, its more beleivable that Robb fell into this trap but it did lack some of the subtlties of the book. I gave the episode an 8, would have been higher but Danys stuff was weak.

I want to add that I agree with Snookson. Robb was in shock and was trying to die with honor on his feet like the fellow at Queenscrown. His wife was dead, his kid was dead, he was dead and he just wanted to get on with it.

I feel like when Robb says "Mother..." he just wants her to shut up so he can die. Nice observation.

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Didn't feel like the RW was epic enough or had enough build up. Should've been more sense of impending doom that Robb and others were foolishly ignorant of, like in the book. Should've been more greatjon and more actual fighting rather than just a slaughter. The feast hall wasn't nearly as big as I pictured in my head when reading that story either.

Didn't like how Greywind was handled at all. Should've had him howling early on and had him chained up outside where he could at least do a little damage before dying. Greywind going out like that seemed like a really pathetic and lazy adaptation, IMHO.

The Danaerys scenes were ok, but the capturing of the city was really meh. Having guards just randomly come out in huge numbers from out of nowhere.. makes no sense.. silly scene, even though it was nice to see the different types of combat on display.

Also agree with others that the Hound/Arya scenes at the end could have been more dramatic. Arya wasn't nearly as "urgent" as she should have been trying to get into the camp once she figured out what was going on. And the Hound should've had to cleave a few folks while chasing after her.

Despite all of that, though, I still gave it an 8. Powerful stuff. Just could have been, and deserved to be, so much more powerful.

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I pity Dany :(

She's such a loved character but was so hated in this ep. She's my favorite and if she's not in an ep I get kind of pissy about it but she did not belong in this one. This was about the STARKS, and to add yunkai in was so off putting. I have yet to read one review out of the five boards I've read over on Ep09 saying they enjoyed Dany, when usually we're all "yeah, Dany's a badass!"

..Now, some of you I have to shake my finger at *shakes it* Can we all be adult enough to agree to disagree? I am the first to admit that I am a purist, not ashamed to admit it. I'm reasonable though, and usually try to contain my nitpicks to the negative nitpicking board. But people who did not enjoy whatever about this ep should be able to feel free to post about it wherever. I, personally, am just an overly meticulous, analytical person. I analyze everything, it's just my personality. So, that being said, even if there's a plethora of things I dislike about an ep, I still think that Game of Thrones is one of the most brilliant shows on tv right now. We don't have a lot, with reality crap like the kardummians taking over, and all of these ridiculous singing competitions. I love Game of Thrones, but I cannot take off my Analyzing Cap for anything. I do the same thing with any and all adaptations, especially the Harry Potter films.. I read all the books and constantly compared them to the movies. Just because, I mean, I don't know about anyone else, but there are certain scenes or dialogue that I really look forward to, and when it's left out I get kind of bummed.

Anyhoo, this was the biggest episode of the season, so y'all know that there will be a ton of opinions (negative and positive). It's crazy when I read all the posts attacking people who didn't like this or that (ie, "the purists are gonna piss themselves lololol" "when will the purists stop complaining!!"). Yeah, some people take the nitpicking overboard, but if that's how they felt, then they should be able to express it. They shouldn't have to be contained to only one board. I have yet to read one post responding to a purist asking them how they feel the way they did (I know that sometimes I get very interested in why people think certain scenes didn't turn out right, or why they hate this character, etc, especially if I like it!) they just constantly get attacked with the "stop complaining!" or "why do you even watch it!" We can totally disagree with one another.. what would the boards be if everyone was all "OMG I love DD, they do everything perfectly, there are no flaws with the show!" or "Ugh, I hate this episode, it was the worst, I rated it a 1, because Roose said 'The Lannisters' instead of 'Jaime'!" I just think that we can all be civil about it.

Don't worry, be happy...

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This episode fracking rocked.

It made me forgive all unJayne Westerling from Ashaii, and all the faults they (imo) have made with Arya, the hound, and the whole bran Company,

For me this is the best episode of Agot so far.

As every book reader, I knew what was going to happen.

The marriage feast was also well done. I felt jolly, even though I knew some beloved characters would soon snuff it.

I can't even imagine how blindsided non-readers were.

Jorah even got some action.

It doesn't get much better than this.

Onto season 9, I say.

Agot forever.

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Complete shit. Hated it to the point of not wanting to watch the series anymore. Eff you HBO. Eff. You.

Try a Disney movie then, you may sleep easier!

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I feel as if I have to jump in here to your aid Elio, it seems like a lot of the time you're one of the only people to voice realistic criticism whereas everyone else is awash with fanboyism.

I couldn't agree more. I also felt this was a serious cop out by David and Dan, and this season is really making me question whether they actually comprehend the material. They seem to only care about events, violence, gratituous sex and nudity and jerking themselves off writing retarded new scenes.

Hahaha! You are obviously not a producer! If you are so enraged about this episode, how have you gotten this far? 10 episodes to cover 600 pages is not easy.

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