What was Jesus like?

[Theda Baratheon]

Have actually taken cleopatra inspired selfies before

dont h8 me cos u 8nt me

[The Fallen]

You're the Selfie Queen, no?

Not sure if you noticed, but my post contained links to posts that used descriptions from the bible. Obviously, they're open to interpretation, but I found the idea of a short and ugly Jesus to be pretty hilarious. (And thus I'm having fun with it.)

[voodooqueen126]

And ugly. http://theholyprepuce.tumblr.com/post/16580290068/did-jesus-have-a-monobrow-in-order-to-establish

Obviously the stuff about Jesus being a hunchback is calumny-whilst it is possible for ugly men (like Hitler and Mussolini) to amass followers, it is much more difficult for unhealthy (and hunchback's are much more obviously unhealthy than say short dudes) to gain followers.

However that he could have had a hooked nose is highly likely (the dude who was unearthed earlier in this thread had a big and hooked nose). Indeed the Song of Songs praises the heroine with the words " thy nose is like the tower of Lebanon which looketh toward Damascus."

Which shows that non western beauty standards actually like this feature. Imagine that!

A lot later and with a different culture, a lot of Islamic art features beautiful women with monobrows. Which again shows that these features are not necessarily considered ugly in cultures where they are common. In fact, I would consider a fondness for nose jobs and eyebrow plucking amongst such a population to be as unhealthy as the whole "Good Hair Bad Hair" thing.

As for height, when my father and I went to the Dead Sea Scroll exhibition, we saw a pair of men's sandles that were too small even for me. So it's likely that, given the Essenes were middle class people (not professional miners or some other height stunting profession) that the average height was a lot smaller.

[Woofless]

I believe that Jesus of Nazareth was a real person. He was a combination of a preacher and social activist. He teachings pissed off both the Roman and Jewish authorities. That is why he was crucified.

Jesus probably looked like an Arab, had black hair and swarthy skin.

:agree:

That being said, I loved 'Jesus Christ Superstar'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvVr2uks0C8

[TerraPrime]

I like the depiction of Jesus in Gore Vidal's "Live from Golgotha" wherein Jesus is short, slight chubby, and spoke with a lisp.

(paraphrasing from memory"

"As Jesus held up his hand, which looks like a stunted starfish, and said: "Why doth thou persecuthe me?" "

[DireWolfSpirit]

The Jesus of Nazareth was the latest in a long, long,

line of solar messiahs.

A line that included Horus, Dionysius,

Mithras and many, many, virgin born figures predating the

Christian myth.

They all built upon each other to form a redacted, imaginative,

narrative.

The Greatest story ever stoled/doled/sold.

The Pagan Origins of Jesus Christ and Christianity

www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biblianazar/esp_biblianazar_33.htm

[DireWolfSpirit]

He was one of those guys that just had to one-up your story with a better one and he never lost a round of competitive suffering. Except once to Siddhartha, but the refs were on the take from Vegas so it was really a push and most of the bookies didn't even try to collect because it was so blatant.

I loved this response.

At first I thought it must be some song lyrics.

I googled it and got nothing though.

Very catchy!

[Darzin]

He was one of the conditioned from Ishual, the rest was just an act to manipulate the worldborn.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Not every thread needs a Bakker reference... really.

[Horza]

You're a wise man, Scot. You've seen the world turn. You should know by now what is inevitable and what isn't.

[The Once and Future King]

He was a nice quiet boy. He used to come into the shop sometimes. He never bought anything but he was a good boy

[Theda Baratheon]

He was a nice quiet boy. He used to come into the shop sometimes. He never bought anything but he was a good boy

i don't know why i just read this in the voice of my nan

[maarsen]

i don't know why i just read this in the voice of my nan

I hear the voice of Brian's mum from The Life of Brian.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

The Jesus of Nazareth was the latest in a long, long, line of solar messiahs.

A line that included Horus, Dionysius, Mithras and many, many, virgin born figures predating the Christian myth.

They all built upon each other to form a redacted, imaginative, narrative.

The Greatest story ever stoled/doled/sold.

The Pagan Origins of Jesus Christ and Christianity

Wow, this is basically the sort of sensationalistic, reductionistic biblical and religious scholarship from one-hundred years ago. He was also the latest in a long, long, line of Jewish/Judean/Israelite messiahs. In addition, the evolving Christology surrounding his nature must also be placed in conversation with accusations made against Jesus by anti-Christian detractors as well as early Christian apologetics.

And ugly. http://theholyprepuce.tumblr.com/post/16580290068/did-jesus-have-a-monobrow-in-order-to-establish

That's not exactly a reputable link. Many of the sources are apocryphal texts, the earliest of which dates to the late 2nd century. Celsus is a 2nd century Greek philosopher serving in the role of a polemicist against Christianity during a time of imperial persecution against Christians. Dionysius of Fourna is a late 17th century monk.

The Acts of Paul and Thecla does not describe Jesus with a unibrow or a crooked nose. It describes Paul with a unibrow and a crooked nose.

3 And he went by the king's highway that leadeth unto Lystra and stood expecting him, and looked upon them that came, according to the description of Titus. And he saw Paul coming, a man little of stature, thin-haired upon the head, crooked in the legs, of good state of body, with eyebrows joining, and nose somewhat hooked, full of grace: for sometimes he appeared like a man, and sometimes he had the face of an angel.

The Acts of Paul and Thecla plays out as a sort of subversive religious satire of romantic conventions in paganistic Hellenistic theater. But it's with the ugly, ascetic Paul as "the suitor" and the young, virgin Thecla as "the maiden" who then converts to Christianity and a life of chastity.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Wow, this is basically the sort of sensationalistic, reductionistic biblical and religious scholarship from one-hundred years ago. He was also the latest in a long, long, line of Jewish/Judean/Israelite messiahs. In addition, the evolving Christology surrounding his nature must also be placed in conversation with accusations made against Jesus by anti-Christian detractors as well as early Christian apologetics.

Trust me I had Justin in mind before I ever posted it.

Justin Martyr & The Mystery of the Pagan Jesus

Justin Martyr was born around 100 CE, and was a prominent apologist and figure in early Christianity. So much so that he is viewed as being one of the "Church Fathers" - figures in Orthodox Christianity who contributed to the key doctrines, beliefs, and history of the Christian faith.

The following quotes are taken from Justin Martyr's First Apology. In these, Justin Martyr cites links between Greco-Roman paganism and early Christianity.

Here Justin Martyr states that the judgment of Rhadamanthus and Minos, as stated by Plato, would in fact happen by Jesus. In addition, he states that it would happen for the same time period that Plato named.

Ch. 8

Plato, in like manner, used to say that Rhadamanthus and Minos would punish the wicked who came before them; and we say that the same thing will be done, but at the hand of Christ, and upon the wicked in the same bodies united again to their spirits which are now to undergo everlasting punishment; and not only, as Plato said, for a period of a thousand years.

In chapter 18, titled "Proof of Immortality and the Resurrection", Justin Martyr simply cites the beliefs of pagans as evidence that an immortal soul and the resurrection of Jesus was possible and did in fact happen.

Ch. 18

For let even necromancy, and the divinations you practice by immaculate children, and the evoking of departed human souls, and those who are called among the magi, Dream-senders and Assistant-spirits (Familiars), and all that is done by those who are skilled in such matters--let these persuade you that even after death souls are in a state of sensation; and those who are seized and cast about by the spirits of the dead, whom all call daemoniacs or madmen; and what you repute as oracles, both of Amphilochus, Dodana, Pytho, and as many other such as exist; and the opinions of your authors, Empedocles and Pythagoras, Plato and Socrates, and the pit of Homer, and the descent of Ulysses to inspect these things, and all that has been uttered of a like kind. Such favor as you grant to these, grant also to us, who not less but more firmly than they believe in God; since we expect to receive again our own bodies, though they be dead and cast into the earth, for we maintain that with God nothing is impossible.

Justin Martyr compares the beliefs and teachings of Christianity with the poets (those who created the Greek myths), the philosophers, Plato, the Stoics, Meander, and other similar writers.

Ch. 20

If, therefore, on some points we teach the same things as the poets and philosophers whom you honor, and on other points are fuller and more divine in our teaching, and if we alone afford proof of what we assert, why are we unjustly hated more than all others? For while we say that all things have been produced and arranged into a world by God, we shall seem to utter the doctrine of Plato; and while we say that there will be a burning up of all, we shall seem to utter the doctrine of the Stoics: and while we affirm that the souls of the wicked, being endowed with sensation even after death, are punished, and that those of the good being delivered from punishment spend a blessed existence, we shall seem to say the same things as the poets and philosophers; and while we maintain that men ought not to worship the works of their hands, we say the very things which have been said by the comic poet Meander, and other similar writers, for they have declared that the workman is greater than the work.

This one is rather self-explanatory. Justin Martyr simply states that the virgin birth of Jesus, without sexual union, as well as his crucifixion, death, and resurrection were nothing different from the mythology surrounding Jupiter (In Greece, Zeus).

Ch. 21

And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter.

Similar to above, Justin Martyr compares the birth of Jesus and his status as the "Word of God' to that of Mercury, who was also born in a similar way and who was also the "Word of God." He goes on to compare the crucifixion with the lives of the sons of Jupiter, which were on par according to him. Finally concluding by comparing the birth of Jesus with Perseus, and his miracles with that of Aesculapius.

Ch. 22

And if we assert that the Word of God was born of God in a peculiar manner, different from ordinary generation, let this, as said above, be no extraordinary thing to you, who say that Mercury is the angelic word of God. But if any one objects that He was crucified, in this also He is on a par with those reputed sons of Jupiter of yours, who suffered as we have now enumerated.

And if we even affirm that He was born of a virgin, accept this in common with what you accept of Perseus. And in that we say that He made whole the lame, the paralytic, and those born blind, we seem to say what is very similar to the deeds said to have been done by Aesculapius.

Again, this one is very self explanatory. Justin Martyr simply states that Christian beliefs are similar to Greco-Roman mythology.

Ch 24.

In the first place [we furnish proof], because, though we say things similar to what the Greeks say, we only are hated on account of the name of Christ, and though we do no wrong, are put to death as sinners

Now, you might ask yourself, "Why would a notable apologist for the early Christian church admit to all of the similarities and influences between Christianity and Greco-Roman paganism?" Probably because the influences were too strong to cover up or hide.

But alas, like a good apologist Justin Martyr had an excuse. It was what is referred to as "diabolical mimicry" - the notion that the devil or devils knew ahead of time that Jesus was coming, thus setting up pagan religions to thwart the faithful.

Diabolical Mimicry

For having heard it proclaimed through the prophets that the Christ was to come, and that the ungodly among men were to be punished by fire, [wicked demons] put forward many to be called sons of Jupiter, under the impression that they would be able to produce in men the idea that the things which were said with regard to Christ were mere marvelous tales, like the things which were said by the poets.

The devils... said that Bacchus was the son of Jupiter, and gave out that he was the discoverer of the vine, and they number wine among his mysteries; and they taught that, having been torn in pieces, he ascended into heaven. (Referring to Jesus turning water to wine as Dionysus, or Bacchus, did 600 years earlier.)

[The devils] gave out that Bellerophon, a man born of man, himself ascended to heaven on his horse Pegasus. (Reference to Jesus riding into town on an ass.)

And when [the devils] heard it said by the other prophet Isaiah, that He should be born of a virgin, and by His own means ascend into heaven, they pretended that Perseus was spoken of. (Reference to Perseus being born of a virgin before Jesus.)

And when, again, [the devils] learned that it had been foretold that He should heal every sickness, and raise the dead, they produced Aesculapius. (Reference to virtually all of the miracles of Jesus being copies of Aesculapius.)

Mimicry of Baptism

And the devils, indeed, having heard this washing [baptism] published by the prophet, instigated those who enter their temples, and are about to approach them with libations and burnt-offerings, also to sprinkle themselves.

Mimicry of Eucharist

Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, "This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;" and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, "This is My blood;" and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.

Keep in mind that these pagan religions all came first. Justin Martyr is not claiming that they copied Christianity after Jesus came, but that "wicked devils" knew ahead of time of Jesus' coming, and thus set up pre-copies of Christianity.

He makes reference to virtually every rite and doctrine found within Christianity - baptism, Eucharist, virgin birth, crucifixion, water into wine, resurrection.

So, the choice is yours. Is this a clear link between Greco-Roman pagan religion and Christianity; one that documents the influence of the latter on the former - or did DEVILS makes the whole thing up? Let the rational mind decide.

Copyright © 2006. All Rights Reserved.

[DeathYon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwOq8zB-ido

[Wicked Woodpecker of West]

A line that included Horus, Dionysius,

Mithras and many, many, virgin born figures predating the

Christian myth.

Horus born from the virgin? Dionysius?

Really I read some mythologies I didn't find a bit of similarity between old drunk Dio and Jesus.

Hell this assumptions are just like those theories about reptilians.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

Trust me I had Justin in mind before I ever posted it.

And? So what? Do you have a point or any critical thoughts of your own to offer? Or is your plan just to regurgitate what half-baked websites are saying and think that I would be speechless? Plus, copying and pasting from a website without citing your source is poor form. You would probably receive a failing grade at any credible institution, if not expulsion, for this sort of lazy shit.

Have you even read Justin Martyr's First Apology? Do you know what he is actually arguing and how he is making his case? Do you know how his work and argument compares with other similar historical literary works of Judeo-Christianity apologetics within an imperial Greco-Roman context? Josephus? Philo of Alexandria? Origen? I don't think Justin Martyr says what you (or the guy you kinda plagiarized) think he says. (Has reading primary sources become a lost art?)

[DireWolfSpirit]

So you accept his argument that the devil time traveled to an earlier history,

planted all these pagan religious histories of virgin born figures that turned water from wine,

healed the sick and were crucified. You believe the explanation from Martyr

that these earlier stories are all so similar because a devil saw Jesus coming and wanted to

befuddle history ?

That's your perogative I suppose.

As far as plagarizing,

I very clearing left a trademark stamp in the quote,

I didnt think there was any question it was a quote of another.

Heres the web address if you need it-

Justin Martyr & The Mystery of the Pagan Jesus - Shema. - Tripod

shemaantimissionary.tripod.com/id11.html

Shema. Justin Martyr was born around 100 CE, and was a prominent apologist and figure in early Christianity. So much so that he is viewed as being one of the ...

You visited this page on 1/25/15.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

And? So what? Do you have a point or any critical thoughts of your own to offer? Or is your plan just to regurgitate what half-baked websites are saying and think that I would be speechless? Plus, copying and pasting from a website without citing your source is poor form. You would probably receive a failing grade at any credible institution, if not expulsion, for this sort of lazy shit.

Have you even read Justin Martyr's First Apology? Do you know what he is actually arguing and how he is making his case? Do you know how his work and argument compares with other similar historical literary works of Judeo-Christianity apologetics within an imperial Greco-Roman context? Josephus? Philo of Alexandria? Origen? I don't think Justin Martyr says what you (or the guy you kinda plagiarized) think he says. (Has reading primary sources become a lost art?)

Matrim:

I don't think anybody really has any idea what DireWolfSpirit's point is, but it sounds like you've made a study of Early Christianity and I bet you have lots of interesting things to say about the various early portrayals of Jesus and how each speaker's own religious and political ideology impacted that portrayal. If you'd be willing to use that as a jumping off point and say something on your own, I'd be interested in following that thread. I don't know if anything fruitful can possibly come from attacking DireWolfSpirit's general incoherence, as I doubt there's much he can do to fix that.