Hoo Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 gone but not forgotten, or whatever they say over there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Godric Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Martin isn't writing this story, though. Fair point, but if David and Dan changed it that much they should have never signed on to do Martin's story and Martin should have never trusted them in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb1180 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 You can think that, I just have more faith in Martin as a storyteller. If he built up Jon the way he did, the mystery surrounding his birth, his role in the fight against the Others and littered the entire book with the foreshadowing only to have Jon really be definitely dead forever. Gone. He's a poor storyteller. There's no way around that. And I would tend to agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Godric Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Don't get me wrong, I would love to have this story go in a way I don't expect and not have Dany and Jon be the heroes they have been set up to be, however there are good ways to do that and there are bad ways. Just killing him now is just bad writing. David and Dan or Martin, if they want to subvert tropes there are ways to do it. Ned's death was great, the Red Wedding while painful made sense in the story. This doesn't. It's illogical from a story telling standpoint and I have more faith in DavidandDan/Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan_Snow Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 GRRM has the luxury of being ambiguous, as the showrunners pointed out in the EW article. You may see a red flag. I see grasping at straws on the part of fans. Not a good look, in my opinion.So you think Jon's story is over. No more Jon in the show and no more Jon Chapters in the book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukehaze Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 The more I think about this, the more angrier I get. It is vastly unprofessional and manipulative to suggest something is so when it's turns out to be untrue. They could be working to with technicalities with ambiguous identification, maybe when they speak of Jon being dead it's literally true but maybe he rises as someone else. To have a character be so vital to the story with so much more to give and major mysteries surrounding his birth, to just kill him off is a truly dreadful writer's decision. Having Jon witness the true power of the true antagonist of the series and have him die is so ludicrous I cannot begin to describe it. If GRRM and writers of the show presume to play with their audiences with depriving them of a reveal they have continually alluded to - then kill them off... Meh.Another thing, why the fk does Kit Harrington think it's a 'good way' for the character to go out? The show failed to present actual compelling contentions for the watch to kill Jon, unfortunately foreshadowing such with stupid frowny faces is laughably pathetic. RAGE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukehaze Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 So you think Jon's story is over. No more Jon in the show and no more Jon Chapters in the book?Grasping at straws? Don't make me laugh! I can only assume you haven't been paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukehaze Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Another thing actually, why would GRRM test D&D by asking them of Jon Snow's parentage? If that isn't important, why ask it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 If you think this is the end of Jon Snow's story, then you haven't been paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindke Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Like everyone has said, Jon was the one major character with the most mystery and unpredictable-ness surrounding him. If he is gone, that makes the rest of game of thrones highly predictable which doesnt make for an interesting story. Imagine next year Season 6 episode 1 airs and its confirmed jon snow is dead forever and will never been seen again. The show will suddenly become terribly hollow and shallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D2procon Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 No one is denying that Jon is dead. The issue is whether he STAYS dead. And in that sense, Weiss is telling the truth: Jon is unambiguously dead. But that doesn't mean it's permanent. And of course they're going to act like the actor is done, whether he is or not. This is arguably the biggest cliffhanger in the entire series, books and TV show, and you people think they're going to spill it by saying, "Oh yeah, Kit's going to be filming later this summer, you caught us." COME ON. Now with that being said, here's why I think Jon snow will not remain dead.If Jon snow is truly dead then what was the point of even pointing out that long claw can kill the wights or the long stare at Jon the night king gave himOnce Jon cut down the other wight leader? There is a reason why they cut out Lady StoneHeart In the show. I think if major characters were easily resurrected, fans would start getting bored and feel like anyone can be resurrected and wouldn't produce the OMG or WOW factor. By cutting Lady Stoneheart from the show and using the resurrection for Jon Snow instead, that would produce an OMG or WOW factor. This is a non issue in the books because the time frame between each book is so long and the books are much detailed and longer so you can still keep the fans "in it" with multiple resurrections Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Shiznit Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Jon Snow's story might not be over, but I think it's probable that he won't be in Season 6 ala Bran in Season 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Deleted] Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 And now his watch is ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maesteress Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Oooh, virgin post here! :) I heard it suggested that the reason D&D are going on this "deny deny deny" campaign is to put the surprise back into the hands of GRRM for the upcoming TWOW. I'm a book reader and a show watcher....and even though I've spent the last few years enjoying delving into the many potential ways Jon comes back, while enjoying the show as a supplement - that interview with Kit Harrington put just enough poison into my certainty that Jon is THE central character in the story that it has me actually posting on this forum for the first time, even though I've been around reading it for ages. They've succeeded in making me even MORE anxious for the next book than I already was. It's brilliant, really. It's really shitty, but completely brilliant. 1) Freak out all the show-only watchers: CHECK!2) Make the long time book readers move uncomfortably in their seats: CHECK!3) Put Jon's fate (and likely the most significant reveals of his story) truly back into the hands of GRRM (in terms of timing): CHECK! The marketing potential for generating additional book sales and additional HBO subscriptions between now and April 2016 has just skyrocketed...... My money is still on Jon (and Kit) returning....but I'd be lying if I said this hasn't made me less comfortable.....(CHECK!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinker Tanner Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I know is sounds silly but I kind of guessed Jon's fate in ASOIAF while reading Royal Assassin by Robin Hobb. ASOIAF and The Farseer Trilogy came out at near enough the same time and it isn't uncommon for authors and writers to discuss ideas with each other (I'm sure I've read that GRRM and Hobb are friends). To me the character Fitz seems like a combination a Bran, Jon and Arya. Anyway back on topic! I think that they'll just use the resurrection thing in the show because they've not given the audience anything to show that Jon can war....skinchange ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon_Rider Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 He's not pining. He's passed on. This Jon is no more. He has ceased to be. He has expired and gone to meet his maker. He's a stiff. Bereft of life, he rest in peace. If you hadn't nailed him to the perch he'd be pushing up the daisies. His metabolic processes are now history. He's off the twig. He's kicked the bucket. He's shuffled off the mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleeding choir invisible. This is an ex-Jon. :D ...For real, though, if Kit isn't coming back, I'm surprised D&D and Kit aren't being more cagey about it. You know, the usual: "Is he dead? Is he alive? Tee hee, we're not saying! You'll have to tune in next year to find out!" That they're all "Yep, he's dead, sorry folks, move it along" is surprising if he is indeed coming back. I think that's the point. They're lying and fibbing to keep us all in the dark about Jon Snow's fate so that we can surprised next season. If they didn't deny his "death" it would be a foregone conclusion that he is revived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsOfBrains Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Fair point, but if David and Dan changed it that much they should have never signed on to do Martin's story and Martin should have never trusted them in the first place. Well they as entertainers (both sides) are making out like bandits on the series. I mean from a strictly "I get paid to make entertainment" perspective they are killing it. Martin as an author and an artist should definitely not have trusted these guys, especially since he himself worked in Hollywood for a decade or two so its not like he was a babe in the woods. I feel bad for Martin on the level of a creative having his magnum opus defiled, but I mean its not like he was an innocent swindled by those slick hollywood fellers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ben Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 They're what I consider to be unreliable narrators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ben Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Martin as an author and an artist should definitely not have trusted these guys, especially since he himself worked in Hollywood for a decade or two so its not like he was a babe in the woods. I feel bad for Martin on the level of a creative having his magnum opus defiled, but I mean its not like he was an innocent swindled by those slick hollywood fellers. If anyone wants to defile my magnum opus to the tune of millions and millions of dollars and one of the most successful and popular shows on TV then I'll sign up for that. I seriously doubt he cares about the differences. He's been around, as you point out, and knows that changes need to be made to adapt the other format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pashernate Reader Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I think he's crying himself to sleep every night on his mattress stuffed with $100 bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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