Star Wars Episode VII THE SPOILERS Strike Back

[Martell Spy]

The big thread was closed to replies. Someone tried to start a new one, but it got closed. So, here you go. Please continue. I'm still catching up on the old thread reading.

[Corvinus85]

Nice title.

I plan to see it again today, then I think I'll post a longer review.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I'd much rather have an emo villain who has time to grow and is actually a fucking character for once than not. I didn't find him too whiny; Adam Driver was great.

[Jaxom 1974]

I'll go back and finish the other thread,  but I'm not waiting anymore to get my thoughts out. 

As someone talking against JJ for what he did to rape and destroy Star Trek,  TFA was alright. I mean,  I went in with skewed expectations because I very strongly feel that JJ isn't nearly as good as people think.  This movie didn't suck. It didn't. 

Plenty to enjoy.  I think they did a nice job hiding elements of the film from spoilers. None of the supposed theories I'd read came to pass.

* Is Daisy Ridley a love child of Natalie Portman and Kiera Knightly? 

* Rey is played as obviously being Luke's daughter,  which means she's secretly be a twin of Ren in actuality,  right? 

* Snoke is certainly playing at Oz in those scenes he's talking to Ren and Hux (is that his name,  it's never overly clear). He'll be the old master of the Emperor in the end. 

* The escaped aliens on the ship was the Pod Race of this movie. 

* Ren is seemingly a force of pure anger. The look of his sabre being rough and continuously crackling like it's on fire,  his need to express his rage by destroying things, his worry that the light is coming to settle in his heart.  I like the idea that he wasn't Luke's top pupil and that drove him to anger and Snoke's attention. That his anger is fueled by his inferiority complex. Which makes Driver, who I generally dislike, an excellent casting choice.

* So we have to assume all the bad guys escaped the crumbling planet? 

* My quibble with Finn is that he was even on that mission to Jakku at all. He was custodial, he said.  Why bring a trooper like that in any case? It isn't as though the First Order lacked men, as evidenced by the Nazi pep rally.

* I'm calling it: Finn is a clone. The designation number.  The conversation between the officers. The idea that Phasma was adamant he not take off his helmet.  The "traitor" reaction from the other troopers. The whole First Order might not be composed of clones, but a lot of their ground troops are. 

* Is Poe's escape from Jakku going to be important?  Or is it a non starter? 

[HokieStone]

Interesting article on the flashback scene, and who's voices we hear:

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-reveals-obi-wan-and-yoda-are-star-wars-force-awakens

I was a disappointed with some aspects of this movie, but this article reassures me a bit about the fact that they have some sort of coherent storyline for the whole trilogy. 

 

[Kalbear]

I'd much rather have an emo villain who has time to grow and is actually a fucking character for once than not. I didn't find him too whiny; Adam Driver was great.

Yeah, Rockroi was way off here. The point of ren isn't to be as fearsome as Darth Vader, because that's what his whole deal is. He wants to be Vader. He wants to be terrifying. He knows what he's supposed to do in order to be fearsome, but he isn't personally that scary.

We get this right away. We get poe mocking him to his face. We get everyone reacting with sympathy and sadness to his fate, or we get mockery. But no one is terrified of him save rey, who doesn't know him. And once she does she turns on him too.

Ren isn't scary because of his appearance. Or because of his abilities, though some of those are pretty cool. He isn't scary like Vader, as Vader would be cruel and direct and effective. Ren is unpredictable. He doesn't have his emotions in check like Vader does. He is scary because at any moment he might do anything. He might toy with you like he did Finn. He might try to be your friend like he did with Rey. He might wipe out a village because someone talked back to him, or he might destroy a bunch of computer stuff for no good reason. He will leave himself open to attack because he just doesn't care.

He absolutely is like anakin. In this case he's anakin done right. The point is to be afraid of him like you would be afraid of a sick animal. In my opinion it worked very well. They made a villain that you can believe wants to teach rey, murder his father, inflict self harm, mock his prey and hurt people because he can. Who is desperate to seek approval yet hates any sign of love or care. It's a far deeper and layered portrayal of any villain in the sw universe so far, and it worked for me much better than I was expecting.

[HokieStone]

 

He absolutely is like anakin. In this case he's anakin done right. The point is to be afraid of him like you would be afraid of a sick animal. In my opinion it worked very well. They made a villain that you can believe wants to teach rey, murder his father, inflict self harm, mock his prey and hurt people because he can. Who is desperate to seek approval yet hates any sign of love or care. It's a far deeper and layered portrayal of any villain in the sw universe so far, and it worked for me much better than I was expecting.

The portrayal of Kylo Ren was one of my initial disappointments in the movie...however, I'm coming around on that based on analysis like you presented here.  I think you're spot on, and the more I think about it, I'm glad they didn't go for the Vader copy-cat.

[Kalbear]

The portrayal of Kylo Ren was one of my initial disappointments in the movie...however, I'm coming around on that based on analysis like you presented here.  I think you're spot on, and the more I think about it, I'm glad they didn't go for the Vader copy-cat.

Yep. And I like that they tried to do a Vader copycat by design, but show us the reason. He's desperate to be Vader. But he's faking it.

[Talleyrand]

* Snoke is certainly playing at Oz in those scenes he's talking to Ren and Hux (is that his name,  it's never overly clear). He'll be the old master of the Emperor in the end. 

 

Yeah I thought he was Nux like the guy in Mad Max until I saw the credits.

 

* The escaped aliens on the ship was the Pod Race of this movie.

 

Yup, the only time to me where the cgi seemed jarringly cgi-ish if that makes sense. It was unnecessary and took up a whole bunch of time. To me if they needed to keep the scene to force them to use the Falcon to get about then have the two gangs fight over who gets the ship and Han. I mean they had the Raid guys there, might as well use them for something other than ducking cgi tentacles and shooting at cgi monsters.

 

 

* My quibble with Finn is that he was even on that mission to Jakku at all. He was custodial, he said.  Why bring a trooper like that in any case? It isn't as though the First Order lacked men, as evidenced by the Nazi pep rally.

I think we has always been a stormtrooper the sanitation stuff was just additional duties and Jakku was his first combat mission - either they have to work on the Starkiller base while in training or soldiers are just sometimes in charge of their own sanitation (admittedly that's usually only when out in the field and not in your own base) 

[Mazrick]

Enjoyed the hell out of this movie! Was a very fun ride. Felt like everyone involved had a blast, and that enthusiasm translated well onto the screen.

I'm thinking Rey is a Skywalker, received prior training, and then was mindwiped probably 'for her protection'. That's the only plausible explanation I can think of for her exhibiting such an insane growth rate with the force without tutelage. Hell, it'd explain how she was so comfortable with the Falcon, since a pre-wipe Rey might have spent quite a bit of time on the ship.

Also, I wish Ren would've stomped her, and it had been 'plot' that saved her. Kylo losing there kind of defanged him as a villain going forward.

[Martell Spy]

* My quibble with Finn is that he was even on that mission to Jakku at all. He was custodial, he said.  Why bring a trooper like that in any case? It isn't as though the First Order lacked men, as evidenced by the Nazi pep rally.

I think it just means all the storm troopers have a secondary job. They are all foremost trained as infantry. Rather than let them play cards and frequent brothels like typical soldiers do when they are not in active, the Order/Empire makes uses of them. It makes sense, since they are in essence slaves. It's very Unsullied-like. And Fin was lying to Han about knowing advanced technical data on the shield. It's surprising Han bought it. The real techs in the empire had those big funky helmets on, I believe, and were never put into storm trooper armor or used as infantry. Fin later admitted to Han to being a sewage tech or the like.

I think it was confirmed that Fin was NOT a clone. Kylo made a mocking comment to the general guy about suggesting they replace his Human stormtroopers with clones, indicating that all the stormtroopers there was in fact Human. They just get no real names, apparently.

Agreed on Kylo, Kalbear. Fantastic character so far.

[Raja]

This film has seriously broken my brain though. I've seen it once; I've made plans to see it again; I'm thinking of other people I could talk to about seeing it with, and I keep watching the trailers on Youtube (including all the weird other country trailers that show different bits!)

Apparently there are at least a couple of scenes in the trailers that didn't make the movie. I've been watching the trailers since I watched the film, the only one I watched before catching the movie was the teaser trailer which was about a minute long. 

My biggest gripe with the film is how similar it feels to A New Hope. That being said, there is plenty of moments that will keep me coming back. I think Adam Driver does an excellent job with Kylo Ren, I was even more impressed with him the second time I saw the film. His scene with Han Solo was probably my favorite part the movie. That scene on the catwalk and the first time Rey and Finn get on the Falcon were my favourite sequences. The latter was especially good, and perfectly showcased JJ Abrams' strengths with the camera. 

[Kalbear]

My twitter feed has a raging debate on how fuck able kylo ren is. Many answer something like "nooooo....well....hmm."

[Bluetiger]

+ Special effects, especially Starkiller Base surface, Falcon on Jakku desert, X-Wings on Takodana

+ Less CGI and more real costumes

+ BB-8, I absolutely love this droid. He reminds me of a cheerful young dog puppy (my 3-months old Swiss Shepherd called Narmo)

+ Snoke, he seems to have potential to became the 'main villain' of new Trilogy, similar to Emperor Palpatine. ( I just hope that he is a completely new character with cool backstory, not Palpatine 2.0, or Darth Plagueis Revived)

+ Han Solo, Ford did a really good job with this character

+ Rey, Finn - JJ chose perfect actors to play them

- Plot, I've expected new story, not some 'reboot' of New Hope , but still, Abrams did this reboot very well.

- Dubbing, but that's fault of cinemas in Poland, not Disney.

- Translation.

- The moment when rebels plan attack on Death Star III aka Starkiller Base . It seemed to be rushed.

- Starkiller Base ( planet looks very cool) - again? Superweapon on giant sphere, destroying Star Systems? What will be next? Starkiller II destroying Galaxies?

- Using Sun as source of energy - this station isn't mobile, right? After using star as power source the base would become useless...

- What happened after Endor? 'You have to buy book to find out'

- Phasma was on every poster and in spots, but in the movie she doesn't do much.... I guess she was there only to make new toys of Grey-Silver Stormtroopers.

- Only 20 TIE fighters and few cannons defending important place on Starkiller. Where is the Star Destroyer we saw earlier?

- Making huge weak point on giant base and not defending it.

-/+ General Hux (Tarkin?) - wasted potential, I hope that we'll see more of him in SW VIII

+ Maz Kanata, I've feared that she will be Yoda Ctr V, but she was very good and interesting new character

+ Luke as hermit/monk on lonely island

Whole movie:

8.5/10

[Raja]

Kylo Ren and Po Dameron during happier times.

I like that song waaay too much. 

[ab aeterno]

Yeah, Rockroi was way off here. The point of ren isn't to be as fearsome as Darth Vader, because that's what his whole deal is. He wants to be Vader. He wants to be terrifying. He knows what he's supposed to do in order to be fearsome, but he isn't personally that scary.

 

We get this right away. We get poe mocking him to his face. We get everyone reacting with sympathy and sadness to his fate, or we get mockery. But no one is terrified of him save rey, who doesn't know him. And once she does she turns on him too.

 

Ren isn't scary because of his appearance. Or because of his abilities, though some of those are pretty cool. He isn't scary like Vader, as Vader would be cruel and direct and effective. Ren is unpredictable. He doesn't have his emotions in check like Vader does. He is scary because at any moment he might do anything. He might toy with you like he did Finn. He might try to be your friend like he did with Rey. He might wipe out a village because someone talked back to him, or he might destroy a bunch of computer stuff for no good reason. He will leave himself open to attack because he just doesn't care.

 

He absolutely is like anakin. In this case he's anakin done right. The point is to be afraid of him like you would be afraid of a sick animal. In my opinion it worked very well. They made a villain that you can believe wants to teach rey, murder his father, inflict self harm, mock his prey and hurt people because he can. Who is desperate to seek approval yet hates any sign of love or care. It's a far deeper and layered portrayal of any villain in the sw universe so far, and it worked for me much better than I was expecting.

This is why I really love Ren. His rage and unpredictability are what make him so frightening. Vader killed subordinates for failure, he choked Motti to prove a point, but he wasn't going to randomly stab someone nearby purely because things weren't going his way. Ren on the other hand, might do just about anything, for any reason.

And while he may not be as powerful as Vader, you can sure as hell bet he could take out just about any of the First Order members around him if he was in a bad mood.

- Using Sun as source of energy - this station isn't mobile, right? After using star as power source the base would become useless.

They mention that the planet has a hyperdrive, IIRC, which is a nice EU callback, IMO.

[HexMachina]

My twitter feed has a raging debate on how fuck able kylo ren is. Many answer something like "nooooo....well....hmm."

The reactions to this i've seen have mostly been "Yeeeeessss....oh he just killed Han *bucket of ice over swooning fans*"

[Red Tiger]

Heh. Before any of the Star Wars stuff, that was my main reason for liking the guy- he's kind of handsome, but weird-looking too. Magnetic and sexy, but not Hollywood at all.

Matt Smith was once described this way.

[ab aeterno]

A bit more on Ren - I think one of the reasons I love the duel with Rey so much, is because it (IMO) really shows why he fails. He draws on his rage and his anger, thinking it will make him strong, but he's so undisciplined and uncontrolled that he's just a lose cannon, he lashes out and  makes himself vulnerable, and wastes energy screaming at his opponents. Contrast with Vader who is focused and methodical -he doesn't rush, he just advances, step by step. 

I think that's also partly what they're trying to show with Rey. She closes her eyes, and decides to trust in The Force, which gives her focus. It's only after that that she wins.

[Jaxom 1974]

I think it just means all the storm troopers have a secondary job. They are all foremost trained as infantry. Rather than let them play cards and frequent brothels like typical soldiers do when they are not in active, the Order/Empire makes uses of them. It makes sense, since they are in essence slaves. It's very Unsullied-like. And Fin was lying to Han about knowing advanced technical data on the shield. It's surprising Han bought it. The real techs in the empire had those big funky helmets on, I believe, and were never put into storm trooper armor or used as infantry. Fin later admitted to Han to being a sewage tech or the like.

I think it was confirmed that Fin was NOT a clone. Kylo made a mocking comment to the general guy about suggesting they replace his Human stormtroopers with clones, indicating that all the stormtroopers there was in fact Human. They just get no real names, apparently.

Agreed on Kylo, Kalbear. Fantastic character so far.

Damn it. My last post was eaten.

I think the conversation about clone troopers is meant as a dodge. The idea that Phasma os so very specific to Finn about having his helmet off is a red flag to me. The whole First Order might not be composed of clones, but there are still clones.

I get the secondary job part. But it didn't work for me in that it still makes no sense that the troopers assigned to custodial are going to be front line guys. Finn had no place in that battle.  That he was a custodial guy is really only there to play for the laugh and the eventual punch line to throwing Phasma in the trash compactor. 

Also:

* Why only X-Wings going after the planet?  Where are the capital ships? And why not just call the Resistance the Republic? Do they really need a secret base?

 

For the record: That I'm wantingto know these answers and more tells me that u enjoyed the movie much more than I thought I would.