Quentyn - Dead? Alive? Dragonrider?

[The Fresh PtwP]

I'm 99% Quentyn died, but then why are Drinkwater and Yronwood being so sketchy in that dungeon scene.

 

[aryagonnakill#2]

3 hours ago, watcher of the night said:

"The Dragontamer" is the title of the chapter. I do not think that G.R.R.M is trolling us with titles.

The chapter names are how the character views themself.

 

2 hours ago, watcher of the night said:

It is not that he needs to be brought back to life, he may not be dead on the first place.

1, Most living creature die in dragonfire within a split second, it is so hot. Yet Quentin had all the time to observe his whip burning then his hand, then his body burning. It is more likely that Rheagal was roasting someone nearby, Quentin was too close and his whip/clothes cought fire accidentaly. This hurts too, but it may not be lethal.

2, The body Barristan saw was unrecognizable.

3, Drink and Arch were clearly hiding something.

4, Also: second dance.

 

In Danys last chapter Drogon roasts a horse and it keeps running and is ultimately killed by Drogon breakings its spine with his feet and body weight.

[Raisin' Bran]

1 hour ago, Ashur said:

My opinion is that Lord Anders Yronwood is intending to deceive Doran Martell, but Doran has years of advantadge. I guess that the indicent between Oberyn Martell and Lord Yronwood which resulted in the later dying from the poisoned blade of the former was coldly plotted by Doran Martell, with the objetive of sending "Quentyn" as a pupil to the Yronwoods. You might say that it doesn't make sense because Quentyn belives that he's the prince of Dorne. Well, I guess that the children in the Water Gardens don't really know who they are until they reach a certain age. Arianne didn't even know that the girl with the green hair she used to play with was the Archont's daughter. After leaving the Water Gardens, Quentyn was told that he is a prince of Dorne, but he's not. He's a random lad from the WG, maybe an orphan. The true prince is with Mellario in Norvos.That's consistent with Mellario's departure, which doesn't makes sense otherwise.

Quentyn is pretty much Doran's plan B. If he miracously had taken the dragons or married Dany, Doran gladly would had him back. But if he fails, Doran don't lose a thing. I'm not sure what is his plan A. It seems that (F)Aegon arrival had taken him aback. The Yronwoods, who secretly are supporting (F)Aegon, believe that they are trolling on Doran, putting hurdles in his way to Dany (again, check Drinkwater's behaviour and actions in the link above). That way, they will bet on the winner horse, while Doran bet on the loser. But Doran has a plan. What plan, I don't know. But Doran Martell is a cold-hearted rogue.

This crackpot is not half bad. At least it was new to me.

[aryagonnakill#2]

3 minutes ago, The Fresh PtwP said:

I'm 99% Quentyn died, but then why are Drinkwater and Yronwood being so sketchy in that dungeon scene.

 

They conspired with a sellsword group that was hired by Danys enemies to steal 1 of Danys dragons.  I think they simply didn't want to say anything to Barristan that would make him feel honor bound to arrest them.

[RoamingRonin]

4 hours ago, The Fresh PtwP said:

I'm 99% Quentyn died, but then why are Drinkwater and Yronwood being so sketchy in that dungeon scene.

Barristan didn't know the full extent of their plans so they were unsure of how much to tell. Incriminating themselves even further could get them into even more trouble.

[StarkofWinterfell]

11 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

Quentyn is Dead. He died a horrible, painful, suffering three day death by dragonfire 

At the end of dance,  Quentyn's surviving crew is sent by Barristan to try to turn the Tattered Prince. We know from the Tyrion winds chapter that the Windblown do in fact switch sides and take the peace hostages back to Meereen 

Spoiler tag that next time.

[ForTheNorth]

He's alive. Whether he's a dragon rider is another story.

 

Death off page, Drink and Arch acting out of character and lying, unrecognizable corpse, Viserion is free, windblown switching sides ect ect. 

[Aedam Targaryen]

Absolutely dead. 

And as far as Drink and Arch acting out of character... they pretty much became different characters! The entire book we see them (and they see themselves) as Quent's protectors. All of the things that they said and did up to this point had been in order to best complete their mission and to protect Quentyn. As his protectors, as shortsighted as it was, they probably never imagined Quentyn dying before them. In any normal battle situation, they would give their own life before Q got hurt, but dealing with dragons is anything but normal. After Q is burned, they are lost. They have no purpose, no mission, their close friend that traveled halfway around the world with them just died a horrible death right in front of them. And on top of that, they don't really know Barriston or how he will react, what their fate will be, whether they can or want to return to Dorne... their entire lives had just been completely changed (and not for the better), so yea, they act a little different after that. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

12 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

I can see him still being alive. I keep thinking that if there is any sort of fire resistance, it would come from Dornish blood, not Targ blood. Who else but the Rhoynar would have had a reason to infuse their blood with some kind of water magic to better withstand the chief weapon of dragons?

And no, Barry is not a reliable narrator because the victim had been burned beyond recognition. The only reason he thinks it's Q is because Arch and Drink say it is. And there is the convo down in the cells where Arch keeps cutting Drink off whenever he starts to speak of what happened.

It would also be perfectly consistent for  Martin to end another book with an ambiguous death. After all, we've had: Arya in GoT, Jaime in CoK, the Hound(?) in SoS and Brienne in FfC.

How many of those people were POV and burning to death? Not many I should think

[ForTheNorth]

 

1 hour ago, Aedam Targaryen said:

Absolutely dead. 

And as far as Drink and Arch acting out of character... they pretty much became different characters! The entire book we see them (and they see themselves) as Quent's protectors. All of the things that they said and did up to this point had been in order to best complete their mission and to protect Quentyn. As his protectors, as shortsighted as it was, they probably never imagined Quentyn dying before them. In any normal battle situation, they would give their own life before Q got hurt, but dealing with dragons is anything but normal. After Q is burned, they are lost. They have no purpose, no mission, their close friend that traveled halfway around the world with them just died a horrible death right in front of them. And on top of that, they don't really know Barriston or how he will react, what their fate will be, whether they can or want to return to Dorne... their entire lives had just been completely changed (and not for the better), so yea, they act a little different after that. 

They didn't seem that distraught. Sounded like a mummers show to me. Drink carried on like someone trying to sell a story then real grief and we know Drink has trouble showing emotion. 

Also why were Drink and Arch so concerned with pushing Quentyns affections for Dany? He's dead. 

 

Nothing adds up and Quentyns chapter isn't Martin's style to end abruptly with no resolution. Nor does it make sense Martin spent so much time describing how average and unassuming Quentyn is, and how devious and calculating Doran is.

 

 

[SevasTra82]

Only in the ASOIAF fanbase could a man be fully engulfed in dragonfire, have dozens of people hear that mans screams and pain for 3 days, and then another handful of loyal men actually *witness* his final breath...and still be considered possibly alive.

Are we *really* running out of things to talk about on this forum?  

[watcher of the night]

16 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

The chapter names are how the character views themself.

In Danys last chapter Drogon roasts a horse and it keeps running and is ultimately killed by Drogon breakings its spine with his feet and body weight.

Drogon set that horse aflame while flying, form a larger distance and it may not have been direct hit. Also the horse is much larger than Quenstin, at least 10 times the size. The boar died on the spot, lambs die on the spot, the windblown head poped and bronze melted by the fire of Vyserion: there is no way Quentin survives a direct hit.

 

4 hours ago, SevasTra82 said:

Only in the ASOIAF fanbase could a man be fully engulfed in dragonfire,

Had he been engulfed by dragonfire he would have died on the spot.

Quote

have dozens of people hear that mans screams and pain for 3 days,

Dozens of people heard someone screaming, there is absolutely no proof that it was Quentin.

Quote

and then another handful of loyal men actually *witness* his final breath...

Arch and Drink are the only witness and they clearly hide something.

Quote

and still be considered possibly alive.

Exactly.

[Dorian Martell]

11 hours ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

Spoiler tag that next time.

This is general discussion. if you don't want spoilers you should keep to the book specific forums  

[Good Guy Garlan]

I think the real question here is why would anyone want Quentyn to be alive? The bitch is dead, rejoice!

And no, that's not just me being a Quentyn hater (though I am, gods, I hate that damn toad), but like, in terms of plot what would it achieve? The whole thing was a setup for a Dany vs Dorne enmity, which wouldn't happen if Quentyn survived. And don't even get me started on the thematic implications. GRRM apparently thought we needed yet another deconstruction of the hero's journey in this series so he gave us Quentyn. Now he's not going to backtrack on that. 

Like, the very first line of the first Quentyn chapter tells us upfront what we're in for: "Adventure stank." As in, Quentyn is shit at life. 

[Light a wight tonight]

13 hours ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

Spoiler tag that next time.

This subforum is aimed at people who have read all the published material so spoiler tags shouldn't be needed, other than perhaps for some of the "sneak" chapter releases.

[Ruhail]

Hes as alive and loved as Balon Greyjoy

[Good Guy Garlan]

2 minutes ago, Ruhail said:

Hes as alive and loved as Balon Greyjoy

Balon is still the only (major) dead character with zero theories on how he might've survived, as far as I know. Even Quentyn beat him, that's shameful. That's how much people hated Balon.

And the funny part is that you have more evidence to argue that Balon is alive, than Quentyn, check it out:

- There was no body

- Balon was ironborn, and ironborn learn to swim before they walk

- A chapter in Feast even notes that Balon aced some sort of cliff-jumping initiation when he was younger

Boom. Balon lives. Get ready for his increasingly poor decisions to make a huge comeback. 

[John Suburbs]

10 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

How many of those people were POV and burning to death? Not many I should think

None, although the Hound was in pretty bad shape. And more to your point, if this is a theme of Martin's, like the dying POV's in prologues and epilogues, and the ambiguous death in Dance is Jon Snow, then Quentyn should be dead. Unless, of course, it's Jon who is really dead...

[Ruhail]

7 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Balon is still the only (major) dead character with zero theories on how he might've survived, as far as I know. Even Quentyn beat him, that's shameful. That's how much people hated Balon.

And the funny part is that you have more evidence to argue that Balon is alive, than Quentyn, check it out:

- There was no body

- Balon was ironborn, and ironborn learn to swim before they walk

- A chapter in Feast even notes that Balon aced some sort of cliff-jumping initiation when he was younger

Boom. Balon lives. Get ready for his increasingly poor decisions to make a huge comeback. 

A GODLESS MAN MAY NOT SIT THE SEASTONE CHAIR!!!

GET HYPE SALTBOWL!!

[Sullen]

12 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Balon is still the only (major) dead character with zero theories on how he might've survived, as far as I know. Even Quentyn beat him, that's shameful. That's how much people hated Balon.

And the funny part is that you have more evidence to argue that Balon is alive, than Quentyn, check it out:

- There was no body

- Balon was ironborn, and ironborn learn to swim before they walk

- A chapter in Feast even notes that Balon aced some sort of cliff-jumping initiation when he was younger

Boom. Balon lives. Get ready for his increasingly poor decisions to make a huge comeback. 

Didn't they find the body, his eyes eaten by crabs?