polishgenius Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 31 minutes ago, Maltrouane Fellaini said: The problem with Farage (or rather, one of his problems) is that he's a rich guy trying to pretend he's a man of the people. In that respect, he's a lot like Trump (although probably less racist). I wouldn't be at all sure of the bolded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilletteMace Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 the british people have been fooled by cowardish fearmongerers. one can just pitty them for trusting a bunch of backminded snakeoil sellers. the worst thing is, they exited the eu with their fantasies of the once so great britain, what will be left of great britain is england and wales, in a weaker position in europe than ever before. it really is sad. 350 mill. pound pledge to the nhs... what a farce these brexiters are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prue Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Seems as if the rats are leaving the sinking ship.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilletteMace Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 7 minutes ago, Prue said: Seems as if the rats are leaving the sinking ship.... exactly... at least people now see. but my bet is, the fooled ones will find a reason to still hang on to its rotten planks. sad times for britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denvek Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Maltrouane Fellaini said: The problem with Farage (or rather, one of his problems) is that he's a rich guy trying to pretend he's a man of the people. In that respect, he's a lot like Trump (although probably less racist). https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CERFjI0WgAE0HmY.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 1 hour ago, polishgenius said: I wouldn't be at all sure of the bolded. Farage hasn't suggested building a wall or banning Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 25 minutes ago, Maltrouane Fellaini said: Farage hasn't suggested building a wall or banning Muslims. That means he's a bit more careful about opening his mouth, not that he's less racist. When you see the mob he knocks around with (well, until now apparently) it's hard to not taint him by repeated, consistent association. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neddy's Girl Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 3 hours ago, Maltrouane Fellaini said: The problem with Farage (or rather, one of his problems) is that he's a rich guy trying to pretend he's a man of the people. In that respect, he's a lot like Trump (although probably less racist). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neddy's Girl Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Farage never seems to wear a suit that fits. I assume this is part of his man-of-the-people shtick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Mongoose Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 British politics is a lot less racially sensitive than American politics. Which is lucky for Farage's reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 5 hours ago, Maltrouane Fellaini said: Rumours are he's going to pull out and endorse Leadsom before the first vote tomorrow in order to sabotage Gove. While Fox hasn't done this (yet), Boris now has. It's a smart move - if he'd endorsed May, Gove might still have come second and got through to the members' ballot, but if Boris can get enough of the Brexiteers unite behind Leadsom, it'll knock Gove down to third in the MPs' vote and he'll be eliminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 22 minutes ago, Triskan said: Was Farage always planning on quitting? Did he even think there was reasonable chance of winning the Brexit? Farage did quit as leader after the General Election last year before going back on his decision, so I wouldn't be surprised if he'd only intended to stay on until after the referendum. While Fox hasn't done this (yet), Boris now has. It's a smart move - if he'd endorsed May, Gove might still have come second and got through to the members' ballot, but if Boris can get enough of the Brexiteers unite behind Leadsom, it'll knock Gove down to third in the MPs' vote and he'll be eliminated. I've heard conspiracy theories that May might lend some of her voters to Crabb so that he comes second and she doesn't have to face a Brexiteer in the membership vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 5 hours ago, Maltrouane Fellaini said: Farage hasn't suggested building a wall or banning Muslims. The difference is that Trump doesn't actually believe his own nonsense (or anything else either - the entire thing is literally an act for him). Farage comes across as someone who actually really dislikes the Other, but cloaks it with a veneer of jolliness. Trump opens his mouth without thinking, and doesn't care what happens. Farage certainly thinks about what he's saying, and how it is interpreted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophelia Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Well the Labour party is still in limbo. I am even more baffled by nothing happening with this coup. Massive no. of MPs declare no confidence in Corbyn, but they have still not put forward any alternative. The rumour that Angela Eagle would step up has not materialised, so we now have a situation where Corbyn is still the leader but tainted by the revolt of his own MPs, which is the worst of all possible worlds (support for Labour has dropped). Personally I remain dismayed that Corbyn was attacked by his own MPs now at all times, where Labour could have put on a strong opposition, and I would have been interested to hear Corbyn's views on how to make the best of Brexit from a socialist position, but have heard nothing on this. So now Labour is limping on, seeming to make no progress on solving the leadership crisis: Corbyn seems to be ignoring what happened, and is still receiving massive popular support (more than any Labour leader in my lifetime: I don't remember rallies like this in favour of a Labour leader before). I don't know what, if anything, the rebel MPs are doing: perhaps they didn't have a plan B if Corbyn refused to resign, but I had the impression that he was willing to have another leadership contest and some say his support is waning, so if they could find some alternative candidates they need to be making themselves known surely, so people can hear a new strong voice for Labour? Some people speculate they are waiting for the Chilcot report to come out tomorrow, in case the public then turns against supporters of the Iraq war, but as this report does not consider the legality of the war against Iraq I'm not sure what difference it will make (as far as I am aware people are already entrenched in their views about the Iraq war in any case). Anyone got any idea what is going on or what is likely to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Well, the rebels have put forward an alternative: Angela Eagle's been perfectly clear that she will in fact stand if Corbyn doesn't step down. They've held off on actually starting a leadership contest, though, as have the Corbynistas, because both sides are rightly worried that a contest would produce a very divisive result. Quite apart from the membership/PLP split, both sides understand that there's a good chance (whatever the Corbynistas say in public) that the membership vote will be a lot closer than last time: a win for either side with the PLP and half of the membership on one side, the unions and the other half of the membership on the other, could easily be a Pyrrhic victory. The idea that Corbyn is receiving 'massive popular support' because people show up for rallies is understandable, but that's not a good measure of popular support. It's a good way of showing that some members are very passionate supporters (and vice versa), but not of showing that the membership as a whole are widely supportive. Opinion polls suggest Corbyn's support has dropped significantly: the Mirror, for example, did a poll that has little good news for either side. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/majority-labour-members-want-jeremy-8322439 For Corbyn, this shows approval ratings down from 72% to 51% amongst members (it's much lower with the general public, including Labour voters) and that 44% of members say he should go now. But for the rebels, 60% of members think they were wrong to try to force Corbyn out. Bad news all round. Chilcott undoubtedly plays a part in the stalemate for both sides. I think the rebels recognise that Corbyn was simply not going to go before he had the chance to stand up in the Commons and respond to that report. (It's quite sad, IMO, how absolutely totemic the Iraq issue has become in progressive politics.) But as you say, Soph, that report isn't going to lead to Blair in the dock or anything like that. It's not going to resolve the impasse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophelia Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Thanks for your reply Mormont: so I guess what might be going on behind the scenes are some attempts to agree a compromise position to preserve the unity of the party. I've heard Tom Watson is going to talk to the Unions so perhaps he is going to find out who else they might support apart from Corbyn (though everything I write sounds hopelessly naive!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 As a Canadian Europhile, the only aspect of Europe that ever dissapointed me was the (IMO) surprising amount of racism...and I have seen it rise of late. Even some friends I'd have never thought to remotely a racist bone have, this trip, made comments that I found very shocking. One objected strongly to the idea of women being allowed to wear hijabs if, say, dealing with children. It was stated as both a symbol of male oppression and scary to kids, in ways that seemed contradictory to me. No one has made any actual racist comments, but race is being mentioned almost any time a person of colour is singled out, like in football games, and comments I'm sure meant as ironical racism, ie making fun of racism, are frequently made. Spoofing bigotry is great, but IMO when you feel the need to do it almost any time another a person of another race is mentioned, it shows that that's how you see them, by colour. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Results are in from the first round of the Tory leadership vote, May has a massive lead over Leadsom, and Fox is eliminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 6 minutes ago, Maltrouane Fellaini said: Results are in from the first round of the Tory leadership vote, May has a massive lead over Leadsom, and Fox is eliminated. ...yay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 22 minutes ago, Dickwad Poster #3784 said: ...yay? Possibly? The expectation would be that Fox's votes will go to either Leadsom or Gove (although Gove would still be third even if he gets all of them). I think the main question will be if Crabb decides to drop out now or carry on and come last in Thursday's ballot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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