Corvinus

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D: On the fringes of the MCU

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I agree that the show could do with a re-vamp, but I doubt that ABC will change the format. They're probably looking at cancellation now. We'll see if the Ghost Rider can truly add something new.

Edited by Corvinus

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2 hours ago, Corvinus said:

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I agree that the show could do with a re-vamp, but I doubt that ABC will change the format. They're probably looking at cancellation now. We'll see if the Ghost Rider can truly add something new.

So back to my original question - what's the angle with Ghost Rider? Is he an antagonist? Is he a member (or going to become a member)of SHIELD? Is he an arc allowing the show to explore the magical side of the MCU (sensible given Dr Strange is about to land). I'm genuinely curious as to the show's status/current set up. If I were to start watching the show (without watching season 2-3) what kind of show should i be expecting?

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Just now, red snow said:

So back to my original question - what's the angle with Ghost Rider? Is he an antagonist? Is he a member (or going to become a member)of SHIELD? Is he an arc allowing the show to explore the magical side of the MCU (sensible given Dr Strange is about to land). I'm genuinely curious as to the show's status/current set up. If I were to start watching the show (without watching season 2-3) what kind of show should i be expecting?

No idea on GR, but I think you're right about the show trying to bring magic in because the MCU is, too. 

If you were to start watch now, you will find some new faces, of course, and some gone ones. I'm really not sure where the show is heading because last season ended in a big way, and changed the status quo, similar to how the disaster that occurred as part of the Winter Soldier plot also changed the status quo.

The character who evolved the most is Skye; since the beginning of season 3, I believe, had a new name Daisy/Quake. Fitz and Simmons also had their own development moments, and generally they continue to be the most fun to watch. Coulson and May are a bit more stagnant.

In season 3 the show was definitely less episodic than before. Now, with GR added, SHIELD's role in dealing with all the enhanced, it can easily go back to a more episodic format, but I hope they don't. 

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11 minutes ago, red snow said:

So back to my original question - what's the angle with Ghost Rider? Is he an antagonist? Is he a member (or going to become a member)of SHIELD? Is he an arc allowing the show to explore the magical side of the MCU (sensible given Dr Strange is about to land). I'm genuinely curious as to the show's status/current set up. If I were to start watching the show (without watching season 2-3) what kind of show should i be expecting?

Thing is, the one-off bad guy of the week from Season 1 kinda disappeared, 2 and 3 were pretty much all about where Coulson's resurrection led - the Kree, the Inhumans etc. Other than that, it was still SHIELD agents running around beating people up and doing spy like things. They were a bit more low tech and small scale after Winter Soldier, now it's been brought back under government control and they seem to be back to normal. Actually now would be a great time to get back into it, basically Coulson is just an agent and there's a new director, Skye's gone rogue hunting random powered people with her new found Inhuman powers. Skye's stumbled across Ghost Rider......that seems to be all you need to know right now. All the Inhuman / Kree / HYDRA stuff seems to have been put to bed.

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34 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Thing is, the one-off bad guy of the week from Season 1 kinda disappeared, 2 and 3 were pretty much all about where Coulson's resurrection led - the Kree, the Inhumans etc. Other than that, it was still SHIELD agents running around beating people up and doing spy like things. They were a bit more low tech and small scale after Winter Soldier, now it's been brought back under government control and they seem to be back to normal. Actually now would be a great time to get back into it, basically Coulson is just an agent and there's a new director, Skye's gone rogue hunting random powered people with her new found Inhuman powers. Skye's stumbled across Ghost Rider......that seems to be all you need to know right now. All the Inhuman / Kree / HYDRA stuff seems to have been put to bed.

Well the Inhuman stuff has not been "put to bed", since there are still Inhumans on the show, like Daisy, or Elena aka "Yo Yo". There has been mention of the James (Hellfire?) guy coming back at some point, too. And I'm sure there are others. They just aren't an organized force with a leader of their own at the moment, and  they have had to register as per the Sokovia Accords. Mack described Elena as an "asset in the field". I suppose there aren't any Inhumans in the SHIELD itself at the moment,

I don't know if the show was ever really planned to be about standalone episodes most of the time. Thing is, season 1 was shaped around Winter Soldier, but they always knew its release would be somewhere around ep 15-17, and they weren't allowed to spoil it, so that's why there was so much wheel spinning and stalling in the first part of the season.

Anyone who thinks AoS should be more closely tied to the movies should keep that in mind. The tie in with CA:TWS was great (but that was the only one that was completely integral and natural, because TWS was about SHIELD) and it made for a fantastic back part of season 1, but people are still whining about the dull standalone episodes early in season 1 or saying that's why they stopped watching. So, imagine if, say, season 3 had somehow been super tied in with Civil War (which came out after ep 3.19) That would have meant wheel spinning for almost entire season, and then the entire storyline pretty much crammed into the last 3- 4 episodes.

Edited by Annara Snow

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4 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

Well the Inhuman stuff has not been "put to bed", since there are still Inhumans on the show, like Daisy, or Elena aka "Yo Yo". There has been mention of the James (Hellfire?) guy coming back at some point, too. And I'm sure there are others. They just aren't an organized force with a leader of their own at the moment, and  they have had to register as per the Sokovia Accords. Mack described Elena as an "asset in the field". I suppose there aren't any Inhumans in the SHIELD itself at the moment,

I don't know if the show was ever really planned to be about standalone episodes most of the time. Thing is, season 1 was shaped around Winter Soldier, but they always knew its release would be somewhere around ep 15-17, and they weren't allowed to spoilt it, so that's why there was so much wheel spinning and stalling in the first part of the season.

Anyone who thinks AoS should be more closely tied to the movies should keep that in mind. The tie in with CA:TWS was great (but that was the only one that was completely integral and natural, because TWS was about SHIELD) and it made for a fantastic back part of season 1, but people are still whining about the dull standalone episodes early in season 3 or saying that's why they stopped watching. So, imagine if, say, season 3 had somehow been super tied in with Civil War (which came out after ep 3.19) That would have meant wheel spinning for almost entire season, and then the entire storyline pretty much crammed into the last 3- 4 episodes.

Yeah you're right about that not all tie-ins would work. But one criticism people had, at least on this board, was that the show created a bunch of extremely powerful villains that the Agents had to deal with, and no Avengers in sight.

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3 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

Yeah you're right about that not all tie-ins would work. But one criticism people had, at least on this board, was that the show created a bunch of extremely powerful villains that the Agents had to deal with, and no Avengers in sight.

This is true across all of the films, too.  The Avengers weren't there to help Captain America during his Winter Soldier thing.  There's no Thor to the rescue when Iron Man is dealing with his own villain shit.  Hulk didn't show up to assist Thor smashing the dark elf thingamajig.  I have no idea why people are surprised that none of the Avengers are showing up in the tv show.  It's just not how it works, it's never worked that way throughout the entire MCU lineup.  

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41 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

Well the Inhuman stuff has not been "put to bed", since there are still Inhumans on the show, like Daisy, or Elena aka "Yo Yo". There has been mention of the James (Hellfire?) guy coming back at some point, too. And I'm sure there are others. They just aren't an organized force with a leader of their own at the moment, and  they have had to register as per the Sokovia Accords. Mack described Elena as an "asset in the field". I suppose there aren't any Inhumans in the SHIELD itself at the moment,

There's still Inhumans in it, but it's not really about their story anymore. Season 2 / 3 were gradually pulling back the curtain on them, and seems to be done with the grand plan of Hydra's to bring Ward-Alien thing back to earth.

41 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

I don't know if the show was ever really planned to be about standalone episodes most of the time. Thing is, season 1 was shaped around Winter Soldier, but they always knew its release would be somewhere around ep 15-17, and they weren't allowed to spoil it, so that's why there was so much wheel spinning and stalling in the first part of the season.

Anyone who thinks AoS should be more closely tied to the movies should keep that in mind. The tie in with CA:TWS was great (but that was the only one that was completely integral and natural, because TWS was about SHIELD) and it made for a fantastic back part of season 1, but people are still whining about the dull standalone episodes early in season 1 or saying that's why they stopped watching. So, imagine if, say, season 3 had somehow been super tied in with Civil War (which came out after ep 3.19) That would have meant wheel spinning for almost entire season, and then the entire storyline pretty much crammed into the last 3- 4 episodes.

Not buying that they knew about Winter Soldier. Otherwise they would have dropped something earlier, Ward could have gone for a secret meeting or something, however small. The first half of the season was just the show not being very good, plain and simple. Then they had to pull a plot out their ass cos the films just destroyed the organisation it was based around. In fact I specifically remember an interview with a producer saying he was annoyed that that got thrown at them.

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37 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

This is true across all of the films, too.  The Avengers weren't there to help Captain America during his Winter Soldier thing.  There's no Thor to the rescue when Iron Man is dealing with his own villain shit.  Hulk didn't show up to assist Thor smashing the dark elf thingamajig.  I have no idea why people are surprised that none of the Avengers are showing up in the tv show.  It's just not how it works, it's never worked that way throughout the entire MCU lineup.  

Which is very true to the source material, since it's the norm in the comics. Occasionally you'll get someone dropping in a single panel to explain why the Avengers didn't show up to stop the end of the world in an issue of X-Men, but mostly they don't bother. You just have to accept that everyone is busy with their own stuff.

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There is still a role for the Inhumans in the show, and it will most likely have to do with SHIELD hunting down those that refused to register.

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1 minute ago, Corvinus said:

There is still a role for the Inhumans in the show, and it will most likely have to do with SHIELD hunting down those that refused to register.

You could also have a storyline where the government builds giant robots to go kill/capture the Inhumans who don't register.

I wonder if said robots would be purple though?

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3 minutes ago, MisterOJ said:

You could also have a storyline where the government builds giant robots to go kill/capture the Inhumans who don't register.

I wonder if said robots would be purple though?

Hey, if one cinematic universe refuses to share, perhaps another will. ;)

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39 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

This is true across all of the films, too.  The Avengers weren't there to help Captain America during his Winter Soldier thing.

When the movie characters could use help, it tends to be at short notice. Eg "Hi, Hydra have just launched a fleet of helicarriers; can you help take them down? You'll be there in half an hour? Oh... well, never mind, then." Whereas Hive was a long-term threat, giving them plenty of time to bring in the big guns.

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1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

There's still Inhumans in it, but it's not really about their story anymore. Season 2 / 3 were gradually pulling back the curtain on them, and seems to be done with the grand plan of Hydra's to bring Ward-Alien thing back to earth.

Not buying that they knew about Winter Soldier. Otherwise they would have dropped something earlier, Ward could have gone for a secret meeting or something, however small. The first half of the season was just the show not being very good, plain and simple. Then they had to pull a plot out their ass cos the films just destroyed the organisation it was based around. In fact I specifically remember an interview with a producer saying he was annoyed that that got thrown at them.

I'm pretty sure that this interview doesn't exist, since there's a number of interviews with Jed Whedon and Jeffrey Bell from right after Turn Turn Turn where they specifically said that they knew about the plot of Winter Soldier since the show was ordered, and that Ward would be the mole, but weren't allowed to mention Hydra and spoil the movie. The idea that they wouldn't have been told  in advance that SHIELD would be disbanded during that same season is crazy.

And um, you do understand that the whole point was that people would NOT know that Ward was a mole? It was kept secret and red herrings were thrown right until the last scene of Turn, Turn, Turn. Because that was the twist - not something the audience was supposed to know all along. I'm completely baffled by the logic that says that they obviously never planned it because the show wasn't showing Ward looking suspicious and nudging the audience: "look how suspicious he is"!

And actually when you rewatch season 1, there are ton of lines that seems like foreshadowing now. But it was not simething that would be obvious the first time around, and they were never supposed to spoil the twist half a season earlier, as you think they should have. Which doesn't make sense to me. The whole point of a plot twist is that it is, you know, surprising.

 

 

Edited by Annara Snow

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Thanks Corvinus and DAveSumm for the updates. It does sound like i may as well drop in on season 4 if 2 and 3 have wrapped up their storylines. And as someone who isn't a fan of the "X-men" Inhumans, I'd be pleased to avoid.

2 hours ago, Corvinus said:

There is still a role for the Inhumans in the show, and it will most likely have to do with SHIELD hunting down those that refused to register.

Despite the first half of season 1 being essentially "hunting down specials" (and not enjoying it) it is that aspect of the show I find interesting. Maybe now the show is a bit more settled this aspect could work again - especially if they aren't always the good guys for making people register.

2 hours ago, MisterOJ said:

You could also have a storyline where the government builds giant robots to go kill/capture the Inhumans who don't register.

I wonder if said robots would be purple though?

Not before they have a storyline where an old Coulson travels back in time to tell them how wrong everything goes, surely? We could even get glimpses of said future because all the super-powered people will have been rounded up so no problems with who they can and can't use. If any of the main cast have had a baby at some point in the show it would be a great time to have said baby sucked through a time-vortex and return as an adult from said awful future. Joss Whedon would be proud.

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3 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

This is true across all of the films, too.  The Avengers weren't there to help Captain America during his Winter Soldier thing.  There's no Thor to the rescue when Iron Man is dealing with his own villain shit.  Hulk didn't show up to assist Thor smashing the dark elf thingamajig.  I have no idea why people are surprised that none of the Avengers are showing up in the tv show.  It's just not how it works, it's never worked that way throughout the entire MCU lineup.  

It's not just characters not appearing on the show. They were very realistic from the jump about how you were probably never going to see Robert Downey Jr. or Chris Evans show up. And they actually have gotten five film characters to appear by my count (Fury, Sif, Hill, Carter, and President Elis) My complaint is that major things happen on the show and then don't seem to have ever occurred in the movies. Mainly Coulson being revived and the Inhuman outbreak. 

Also I think the movies have gotten better at that kinda thing lately. I wouldn't be surprised if Dr. Strange was the last truly solo film. (in that while he seems to have his sidekick it doesn't seem like any established MCU characters will show up.) Ant-Man already had Falcon. Civil War...yeah. Thor 3 will have Hulk, Spidey will have Stark, etc. Black Panther could be another, but with half the Avengers hiding in Wakanda I wouldn't bet on it. It's gotten to the point where they have so many characters that doing solo movies seems silly. 

If the mystery Punisher appearance being filmed in October is actually for Agents I'll be very happy. Hell if they just had a easter egg of Coulson or whoever reviewing a file on one of the defenders I'd be happy.  

Edited by RumHam

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And here are some of the interviews from April 2014 with producers of AoS that I mentioned before - I've just done a Google search and found a few. Actually it was Jeff Loeb and Jeffrey Bell.

http://www.ew.com/article/2014/04/09/agents-of-shield-postmortem-ward

 
Quote

 

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: Ward! First of all, tell me how long the events in this episode were planned.
JEFF BELL: We’ve known what Captain America: The Winter Solider was all about since we came together a year ago. And so we knew that we were doing a show called Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and that in the movie, S.H.I.E.L.D. gets blown up. And it’s full of the “H word” [Hydra.] And so we’ve been working with the studio from the get-go towards this moment. Our challenge was that we couldn’t say the “H word” until after Captain America 2…so we had to have an ongoing threat that we’ve called Centipede, that we’ve called The Clairvoyant, that we’ve called other things, because we could not say the word Hydra. What wasn’t a challenge was coming up with twists and turns, and making you think it was this person, because we work very hard to hopefully hide the ball with who it is.

(...)

Going into the series, how much did the actors know about their specific character journeys?
BELL: Different people knew different amounts. We didn’t tell Brett [Dalton] at the very beginning because it didn’t seem fair to have him carry that burden all season, but we made sure to always write him a way that when you look back, we can say, “this is why you did this, this is why you did that from the get-go.” He understood all the dots, he understood what we were planning, and we understood what we were writing. And one of the things that’s fun for us is that now that the gloves are off, he can be this other guy. And having seen where it goes, watching this Grant Ward is a lot of fun.

(...)

LOEB: And part of what’s so much fun is being able to go back and look at the pilot and see where Coulson says to Ward, “we haven’t scores like yours since Romanov.” Now, at the time, you probably thought “oh, that’s a really good spy.” But then if you think about what Natasha has done with her life and the number of identities she’s had and the number of people that she’s burned along the way, that may have not been the best compliment to give somebody.

BELL: Let me put this on another level: Ward had put Garrett on this plane for a reason, and so he had to come in and be accepted to this team. And so if you’d look at how he related to everyone – Coulson loves projects. Here is a guy who didn’t have people skills. So Garrett says, can you help this guy Ward round off some of the rough edges? So he comes onto the team. Coulson is now vested, because he’s got a project. Who is Ward’s greatest threat? May. What does he do? He seduces her. Who is the one unknown on the team? Skye. He becomes her S.O. How do you get everyone rally around and trust you? You jump out of a plan trying to save someone else. Now, he had a parachute. Let’s say he failed to save Simmons, he would’ve been fine. Everything he’s done has solidified how people feel about him over the course of the season.

LOEB: And what was the next thing he had to do after he saved Simmons? He had someone on the plane who was jealous of him: Fitz. And what did they do? They went on a mission together and they had a really good time together. And a bromance was started. And that took care of that.

BELL: And then even when he was with Lorelei, and she was talking about the darkness inside of him and the other qualities, she saw something that a lot of other people hadn’t seen. So we feel like we laid things out pretty well. Because you don’t want to over tip your hand, but we think people are pretty smart, and you can look back and go, “oh yeah, it was all there the whole time if I had looked.” And what’s fun now that you’ve seen 17, watch it again, or watch 16 again, and every look Ward does seems to have a double meaning.

I love that. Give me an example of something that might be a little less “obvious” than the Romanov line that could be fun for viewers to realize.
LOEB: We’ll give you one that’s a lot of fun, and that’s in “Seeds,” episode 12. Towards the very end, there’s a lovely, heartwarming moment where Skye is standing in front of the fallen S.H.I.E.L.D. agents through the decades. Watch that scene, and keep an eye on Ward.

BELL: And what she’s saying as you’re looking at him.

 

The last bit is actually about Coulson's voiceover near the end of that episode.

Two other interviews, pretty much saying the same thing:

http://marvel.com/news/tv/22512/marvels_agents_of_shield_eps_jeph_loeb_jeffrey_bell_look_back_at_season_1

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/04/10/marvels-agents-of-shield-producers-on-where-the-show-goes-next-after-the-big-hydra-reveal

Like I said, I've been rewatching season 1 - I'm at episode 19 atm, and I've been talking some notes that I thought to post for a few episodes in a row on my Tumblr blog, but then I decided I'll just dump them all once when I finish the season. The first thing that struck me in early episodes is how many things look very different and more interesting in hindsight, and that the season as a whole holds up much better on rewarch.

I found the pilot, for instance, much more interesting this time around, when I know how many levels of manipulation and deception there are - I think that Fitz and Simmons are the only people who aren't lying/having a secret agenda/manipulating anyone.

Some interesting stuff you can notice about Ward just based on the first few episodes:

- he gets immediately compared to the Black Widow - one of the first thing we learn about him is that his espionage marks are "best since Romanov"

- he's very used to and blase about killing as a part of his job. One of the first thing he asks Coulson in their first conversation, when Coulson mentions members of Rising Tide, is "You want me to cross them off?" Coulson is a bit taken aback: "Wow, no".

- another thing we learn during their first conversation is that Ward has some kind of a awful and dysfunctional family - Coulson is the one who mentions it. Ward is known to have poor people skills, and Coulson says "and with your family history, I'm surprised it's not worse". This is obviously something that's on his record that agents with higher security clearance, like Coulson, can know.

- but somehow, in spite of his "poor people skills", Ward ends up being liked by everyone on the team by the end of second episode. (He even strikes up a conversation with May, the most closed off person on the team, and she is clearly starting to like him, and is even smiling at him at the end of episode 2 - I think that's the first time she actually smiles on the show!), Which makes a lot more sense if his "poor people skills" are about him deliberately not wanting to get close to people, rather than not being able to get close to them if he wants to. (BTW, I've also been watching Broachurch these days... and David Tennant's detective in that series is what a person who really has bad people skills is like, he just kept pissing everyone off all the time. )

- it's also kind of weird that he acts like he's a super serious guy with no sense of humor with Coulson one moment, but then we see him snarking a lot of other times. But I can see how this was probably seen as just a TV show convention/poor writing, rather than something being weird, fake or off about his persona in general.

- he's generally super obsessed with his job and takes great pride in his skillset, to the point of being pretty smug about it. He also seems to have a high threshold for pain and desentization to violence.

- he dislikes gestures of affection and is generally closed off, but will tell someone personal things about himself when he needs to to get the job done (after he becomes Skye's SO, Coulson tells him to approach her in a more human way, so he starts telling her about his family, his younger brother and his abusive elder brother/

- also, the "truth serum" that Coulson pretends to give Ward so she could do the "reverse interrogation" of Ward where she makes him apparently super uncomfortable and awkward in a Whedony funny scene ("Did it hurt?" "Yes, but I always mask my pain in front of beautiful women, it makes me seem more masculine... oh, it really is working." "Did you kill anyone?" "A few, but they were terrible people, trying to hurt nice people, and I felt bad afterwards". "How does your grandmother feel about this?" "Gramsy?"

... is a total fabrication, of course (the idea that SHIELD actually has it is pretty unlikely by itself, especially since they never use it, but even if they had it, there's no way a high ranking agent would let an outsider, much less a Rising Tide hacker, actually get an opportunity to get secrets from a level 7 agent. Ward eventually laughs and tells Skye as much in episode 3: "Oh, you mean my level 1 overshare that miraculously got you to cooperate? I hate to break it to you, but there is no truth serum" and Coulson just smiles mysteriously when she asks him if that's true. It was clearly a rouse that Coulson and Ward prepared to manipulate Skye into cooperating. That way Coulson gets to be the Good Cop and start to bond with Skye. And it also means Ward playacted the whole thing. Right at the beginning, the hot young agent with the belligerent attitude shows that he's attracted to her, but in such an awkward, non-threatening way, that she thinks she's in charge and that she's teasing/seducing him. The rest of what he says is also totally meaningless and non-revealing (though Skye is helping with the fact that she's not asking any real questions and is clearly interested in him than in any actual SHIELD secrets), and it's unlikely he even has a living grandmother he has any nice relationship with - she's never mentioned, and everything else we ever hear about his relationships with his family is negative, so that was another invention.

In other words, we can see very early on, if we pay attention, that Ward is really good at putting on an act.

So.. where's the lie? I mean, that's pretty much him - no, there are no clues that he's Hydra, but it's funny to see how many signs there are right from the start that something is not quite right about that guy. Now, hindsight is 20/20 and I can't say that I've noticed all of these on my first watch, even with having been spoiled that he wasn't exactly a good guy. But it's only on rewatch that I've realized that what people say, that Ward was completely different before and after the reveal, isn't true. He's just different on the surface, and they did a good job in wrapping it all up in a traditionally heroic package.

Also, in the pilot, when Ward gets all grumpy and aggressive during his and Coulson's interrogation of Skye, Coulson pulls him out of the room and asks what is wrong: "Are you trying to botch the interrogation? Is the girl getting under your skin?" Probably both, but they're unrelated - he started acting like that after Skye mentioned the Centipede program, which Coulson hadn't heard about before, so botching it was probably exactly what he was trying to do. Another time when he seems strangely incompetent for someone who's supposed to have a lot of experience in espionage is in episode 4, when they're trying to infiltrate a Centipede facility and find out the truth behind the eye spy technology. But in episode 12, when they're at the Academy and investigating the freezing done by Donnie Gill and another student, we can see Ward effortlessly lie to the female student and get info from her.

By episode 10, he and Coulson are so buddy buddy that Coulson talks to him about his relationship with the cellist. (Which, later in that same episode, Raina references while she's torturing him, because she heard about it from the Clairvoyant.)

In the same episode, when Ward is sparring with May, she tells him she knows he favors his left because it's in his file (the one that only agents with a certain clearance can see, obviously). He asks "what else is there?" and seems concerned. Probably wondering just how much of his background is actually in it - like the fact that he was in juvie for setting fire to his parents' house with his elder brother in it?

After he and May start sleeping together (episodes 9-15), nearly every conversation they have is started by Ward and he is always asking her about things like their missions, Coulson and his problems post-resurrection, Skye investigating Ian Quinn. etc. For instance, in episode 13 he remarks on her tight leather costume, then says:

"It seems things are getting personal" - May raises eyebrow - he goes "Our missions are getting personal" and then starts talking about Coulson's behavior of late and the fact that Skye seems driven lately to investigate something. May is chattier than usual, obviously relieved he's not going to be talking about their relationship, as she initially thought when he started. (He later seems annoyed - after Coulson decides to tell him what he knows about his resurrection - that she didn't tell him all she knew.)

We see Ward acting flirty and cheeky with May on several occasions, but when she tells him that she told Coulson about their sexual relationship, and he gets obviously worried, he then talks to Coulson and is not just very apologetic, but suddenly totally awkward and sexually non-threatening, to the point that Coulson tells him that he should be able to say the word "sex" out loud.

There's also many lines that seem interesting in hindsight:

- The Pilot: Ward: "People keep secrets for a reason, Skye."

- Episode 3: Ian Quinn has a speech that is very Jerkass Has a Point: he tells Skye that SHIELD targeted her because she fits their profile: "You are a criminal. You have a warrant somewhere. Specialized skill set. No family. " He could be describing Ward, once we learn his backstory.

- Episode 4: Ward (to Coulson, referring to Akela Amador): "I can only imagine how painful it must be for you, sir... being betrayed by someone you trained and believed in."

- Episode 5 opens with a speech by the one-off superpowered character, Scorch, who's talking to the assembled crowd in China while doing a magic trick: "My grandfather said that every man is a mystery. Some men harbor beautiful secrets. Other hide darker ones. He believed that the only way to know man’s true nature is to pierce the outer shell and gaze within.”

- Later in the episode:
Ward: “You can’t save someone from themselves, sir.” Coulson: “You can, if you get to them early enough.”

- Episode 6: Ward (referring to a guy who seems like a total boy scout in his bio): "Everyone looks clean on the first go-round.”

- Episode 7: Fitz: "You should know by now, Agent Ward, that looks can be deceiving.” A little later, Fitz again, to Ward: "I'm every bit the SHIELD agent that you are."

- Episode 9 - Skye and Ward discover that Hannah didn't cause the accident - it was really her co-worker Tobias, who sabotaged the machinery multiple times and made reports against her. Ward says: “She thought he was a friend, but he had it out for her.”

 - Later in the episode, there's an interesting dialogue between Tobias' ghost and Hannah (who's super nice, compassionate and very religious), after it turns out he caused a number of deaths as a result of his crush and misguided attempts to get her attention.
Tobias: “I thought that maybe, if you forgive me, I won’t go to hell.”
Hannah (sadly): “Only God can forgive you.” Which is a good point, since you don't really have the right to forgive someone for killing/hurting other people. Seems thematically relevant - and in episode 1.19, there's another guy (Marcus Daniels) who expects a woman (the cellist Audrey, his "only light in the darkness") to provide his salvation: "I'm a monster, but you are the one who can save me". (And those scenes were intercut with Ward/Skye scenes at the Providence station - the parallels/theme was pretty obvious.) It didn't work out for him, either.

- Episode 10 - Ward to May (after she confronts him about having taken a hit for her earlier during a fight, which she assumed was because of personal feelings - he says it was because she is faster and could be more successful in that fight): “It was tactical, not personal...So don’t flatter yourself.”

- Episode 12 has a few interesting moments. At one point they are discussing 'bad seeds' at the Academy. (Which turn out to be Donnie Gill and another guy, under influence of Ian Quinn.) Coulson later says: “I guess there are no bad seeds, just bad influences”.

- At the end of the episode, there's a voiceover by Coulson, who's telling May how Skye had reacted to the truth about her birth/background - and while he's talking, we see Skye in front of the Wall of Valor at the SHIELD Academy.  "The world is full of lies and evil and pain and death... And can't hide from it, you can just face it." As the voiceover is going "the world is full of lies and evil and pain and death", we see Ward standing a little further and looking at Skye.

- Episode 14 - Garrett (who's introduced in this episode): “Oh, I’m a bit of a sweet talker myself. (gesturing at Ward) You wouldn’t believe what I can talk this sun of gun into.”

And this is all stuff before the CA:TWS tie-in (from episode 16 onwards).

 

ETA: sorry about the formatting,  I don't know how to remove the huge empty spaces in the post.

 

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Edited by Annara Snow
formatting on this forum is so messed up

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5 hours ago, mormont said:

Which is very true to the source material, since it's the norm in the comics. Occasionally you'll get someone dropping in a single panel to explain why the Avengers didn't show up to stop the end of the world in an issue of X-Men, but mostly they don't bother. You just have to accept that everyone is busy with their own stuff.

This is pretty much it.  It's a comic book show.  Comic books never have all the same things going on at the same time.  Small drops and lines are fine, providing they're consistent in how they do it.  The Sokovian Accords line would be fine, if there was some.consistency from both the show and the movies about what that actually means...

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10 hours ago, RumHam said:

If the mystery Punisher appearance being filmed in October is actually for Agents I'll be very happy. Hell if they just had a easter egg of Coulson or whoever reviewing a file on one of the defenders I'd be happy.  

I'd watch that episode. Although I also wonder if it's more likely the Punisher will show up in Iron Fist.

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Well, on the Accords, they're a good example of another thing that I assumed was understood about AoS: that it will take bits from the films and develop that stuff more fully (which is exactly what they did with HYDRA infiltrating SHIELD). Of course, there'll be a problem if future films contradict the AoS line on the Accords, but for now I think it's fine.

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