HBO's Westworld(v3)- The man in black fled across the desert, and we all followed. [spoilers]

[.H.]

So, I was somewhat seduced by the alternate timeline idea, but after this last episode, I am a bit less keen on it.  Why would Deloris recall that exact view, from seemingly the exact spot.  This means she has been there before, probably with either Arnold and/or the MiB.  I think this is a strike against the multiple timeline.  I think more so she is unconsciously drawing William to the same place as the MiB, the Maze.

My best guess would be that the Man in the Maze is Arnold.  People seem to be speculating (although, not here, I don't think) that perhaps the Maze is actually for Hosts?  So, the Maze is actually a really grand Turing Test?  I have a feeling that while Arnold is dead in the sense that his body no longer lives, perhaps he found a way to embed his consciousness into code?  And so he awaits one of the Hosts to achieve self-awareness, meaning that the Host environment is finally suitable to fully simulate a human, and he can move into one?

In this way, perhaps the MiB is trying to get to the heart of the Maze so as to end it.  Deloris is racing him to the Maze to actually gain self-awareness. 

[Charlie Hustle]

50 minutes ago, Ded As Ned said:

Agreed.  If Hopkins doesn't win I'll be disappointed.  Also loved the scene with the door and the filming... I was like "what door?" "OH!"  So hat tip to the Boarders who called it awhile back!

Yeah I feel like they just missed each other (if on the same timeline).  Did anyone else notice the tree that knocks Delores off her horse is the same one that MiB hung El Lazo from to drain his blood?  Not sure if intentional, or just re-using a set/shooting location, but I did notice.

Also Bernard pointed out at the shack/hidden lab that most of the "employees" who survey the park were hosts, so they didn't even notice it as being there.  I think a good portion of the workforce are hosts.  Cheap, controllable labor.

This is what I'm on to.  I think Ford has to be a host, maybe the first with sentience. I was always curious how he could seemingly control them with his mind, and to me this is the only explanation.  Arnold created Ford to help build the park, and Ford ended up killing him and taking over.

So, I'm caught up!  Brilliant episode, although I wished we'd checked in on the MiB.  Also, the female board member said they were waiting for the rest of the board to get there so they could deal with Ford.  Coincidence that Ford seems to be taking action now, when he has them all in one place?  Does he have Theresa off them and replace them all so he's free to continue his little ploy at global domination?  

Waiting a week for more is painful enough... only 3 episodes left before the long night begins. 

I agree. i think that this is going to be the case,,,

[red snow]

3 hours ago, Fez said:

Yeah, its just another shot, from a different episode even, also showing that room without the door. In case anyone thought maybe it was just shadows or something blocking the door in the Bernard/Theresa scene.

Which means the show is in fact willing to have the camera be unreliable not just within scenes, but across the entire season. Making it more likely it has done things like made cuts that made scenes seem chronological but are actually not (likely reinforcing that Jeffrey Wright was playing Arnold in those scenes with Dolores), and that there's been at least one other example of hosts seeing something that wasn't true. As I understand the William=MIB theory, that would be Dolores, but I'm going a different route, I think its Maeve. Her scenes with the butchers have been too cute by half, and I think they only work if it turns out she's in a trap designed to prevent her from actually becoming free (There's a term for this, I forgot what it is; but its what the Architect described in the second Matrix movie). 

so you think she's imagining she's escaping when in actual fact she's not? That would resolve how convenient her development has been of late. Be extra harsh if the season ends with her escaping only to then cut away to show that she's sitting in the retirment bunker.

2 hours ago, unJon said:

So I just saw that Bernard Lowe is an anagram for Arnold Weber. That clinches it for me. 

Definitely.

3 hours ago, unJon said:

So I think MiB is a board member in addition to William. The Maze is I think Ford's way of manipulating MiB because he's a board member. Not exactly sure what Ford wants from the Board, but I think it will turn out that MiB will trade it to Ford at a key point in order for "Arnold's last secret."

Ford, being both an evil genius and nostalgic (see his secret robot family) will have made up the whole thing. The Maze is Ford'a tribute to Arnold and nothing more. Arnold is deader than dead (though looks like Bernard). 

The new board woman mentioned how her predecessor screwed up 35 years ago. Seems hard to beleive that was William if he's the successful MiB. But maybe she was referring to Ben Barnes' character.

3 hours ago, Ded As Ned said:

This is what I'm on to.  I think Ford has to be a host, maybe the first with sentience. I was always curious how he could seemingly control them with his mind, and to me this is the only explanation.  Arnold created Ford to help build the park, and Ford ended up killing him and taking over.

 

A good compromise is that Ford is a human and a host. It often feels like he's everywhere at once and I can imagine him thinking "2 heads are better than one" by having some host versions of himself to confer with. Whether he is all versions at once or he's happy to have facsimiles is an interesting question though. I agree that the host version is more likely to be the one that controls others via wireless tech.

Also they established in this episode that hosts can be programmed to think other hosts are human. Probably an aspect of them seeing what they are meant to see.

[The BlackBear]

Just beautiful.

 

Hoping Elsie is still around, maybe grabbed by an Arnold agent. In my head he's got a few running around himself, acting independent of Ford. Delores being the obvious one, 'he doesn't know' was directly after a conversation with Ford.

[.H.]

6 minutes ago, red snow said:

Also they established in this episode that hosts can be programmed to think other hosts are human. Probably an aspect of them seeing what they are meant to see.

Are you referring to how they had that security guard fool Clementine for the demonstration?  I think it is slightly different, at least from what they said.  Clem wasn't programmed to think the guard was human, the guard was programmed to mimic the signs that Hosts use to determine if someone is human (heartbeat maybe?).

[Fez]

30 minutes ago, red snow said:

so you think she's imagining she's escaping when in actual fact she's not? That would resolve how convenient her development has been of late. Be extra harsh if the season ends with her escaping only to then cut away to show that she's sitting in the retirment bunker.

Mostly, yeah. I think some of her scenes are really happening and some of them aren't, but in both cases its all going towards Ford's design of trapping any hosts that start down the path towards escaping.

Or rather, I hope that's the case. Because if everything is as it appears to be its being really poorly done.

[Cas Stark]

I would be very disappointed if Ford is an android.  And I doubt this is the case.

For some reason I never saw Bernard's last name, so we can check that box almost certainly then Bernard is Ford's robot version of Arnold like he kept his robot family.  But then that would make the drawings found to be Ford's drawings, not Arnold's and that Ford created Dolores? Yes?

My big question is why is all of this happening "now"?  Did Ford make the reveries on purpose to get Arnold's code restarted?  If so, why?  However, if out of her loop Dolores is in the past then it may be that he put the kabosh on Arnold's maze way back during the original critical failure....would that work for those who pay more attention to the details?  That if it's really two timelines then the only person "now" who is looking for the maze is the MiB?  I hope this makes sense.  Maeve isn't looking for the maze either, she just wants free will and to get out.

[dbunting]

Is anyone else having problems seeing these pages? When I come here I see the border and ads but the text area and post area is usually blank? This one I can see but when I click next page it's blank. Been happening for a few days now

 

[Biter]

3 hours ago, unJon said:

So I just saw that Bernard Lowe is an anagram for Arnold Weber. That clinches it for me. 

Some possible anagrams;

Teddy Flood - Told to defy

Dolores Abernathy - Honestly a boarder, A thorny rose-blade, Oh, a bystander role/Lo, a bystander hero!

[Mark Antony]

I must've missed when Arnold's last name was revealed. Same with Bernard's tbh

[unJon]

10 minutes ago, Mark Antony said:

I must've missed when Arnold's last name was revealed. Same with Bernard's tbh

I don't think we know Arnold's last name. Bernard's is on imdb. So what we really know is that Bernard Lowe anagrams to Arnold with some leftover letters that could form a common last name: beerw. 

[The BlackBear]

26 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Is anyone else having problems seeing these pages? When I come here I see the border and ads but the text area and post area is usually blank? This one I can see but when I click next page it's blank. Been happening for a few days now

I'd mention it in the board issues thread. See if anyone else is having that issue as well.

 

[Mark Antony]

11 minutes ago, unJon said:

I don't think we know Arnold's last name. Bernard's is on imdb. So what we really know is that Bernard Lowe anagrams to Arnold with some leftover letters that could form a common last name: beerw. 

K so I didn't miss anything on screen good. Thought I had been paying attention well enough lol

[Ded As Ned]

44 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I would be very disappointed if Ford is an android.  And I doubt this is the case.

For some reason I never saw Bernard's last name, so we can check that box almost certainly then Bernard is Ford's robot version of Arnold like he kept his robot family.  But then that would make the drawings found to be Ford's drawings, not Arnold's and that Ford created Dolores? Yes?

My big question is why is all of this happening "now"?  Did Ford make the reveries on purpose to get Arnold's code restarted?  If so, why?  However, if out of her loop Dolores is in the past then it may be that he put the kabosh on Arnold's maze way back during the original critical failure....would that work for those who pay more attention to the details?  That if it's really two timelines then the only person "now" who is looking for the maze is the MiB?  I hope this makes sense.  Maeve isn't looking for the maze either, she just wants free will and to get out.

How do you explain Ford's silent control of (at least some of) the hosts if he's not one?  I do note that he seems to use voice commands with some of them as well... so I'm not convinced he has that type of control with all of them... maybe just gen1.

27 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Is anyone else having problems seeing these pages? When I come here I see the border and ads but the text area and post area is usually blank? This one I can see but when I click next page it's blank. Been happening for a few days now

 

Working fine for me.

[Cas Stark]

Oh I think Dr. Frankenstein  Ford has reserved numerous special privileges in terms of controlling the hosts for himself alone, that are not available or programmable by others.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Quote clear bullshit

[red snow]

1 hour ago, unJon said:

I don't think we know Arnold's last name. Bernard's is on imdb. So what we really know is that Bernard Lowe anagrams to Arnold with some leftover letters that could form a common last name: beerw. 

They may have given his full name in discussion during the last episode, possibly?

2 hours ago, .H. said:

Are you referring to how they had that security guard fool Clementine for the demonstration?  I think it is slightly different, at least from what they said.  Clem wasn't programmed to think the guard was human, the guard was programmed to mimic the signs that Hosts use to determine if someone is human (heartbeat maybe?).

I was. So if a host knows how to mimic a human other hosts can't attack them?

[DireWolfSpirit]

1 hour ago, unJon said:

I don't think we know Arnold's last name. Bernard's is on imdb. So what we really know is that Bernard Lowe anagrams to Arnold with some leftover letters that could form a common last name: beerw. 

Bernard Lowe = Arnold Weber

[Fez]

1 hour ago, dbunting said:

Is anyone else having problems seeing these pages? When I come here I see the border and ads but the text area and post area is usually blank? This one I can see but when I click next page it's blank. Been happening for a few days now

It doesn't look like anything to me.

[Ded As Ned]

1 minute ago, red snow said:

I was. So if a host knows how to mimic a human other hosts can't attack them?

I bet this is how Wyatt's men resisted gunfire in that one scene earlier in the season.  They were unharmed by Teddy's shooting, just like a human.  We haven't seen those guys show back up since then, have we?