Rippounet Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 3 hours ago, polishgenius said: Stopping all donations to them as some people and businesses are doing does seem like a not-particularly-helpful reaction to the issue, though. It was no doubt the point of he media campaign in the first place though. Oxfam has become rather inconvenient for some people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAROVORKIN Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 hour ago, A wilding said: Another of my trigger points: There are basically two options in the UK other than the NHS. 1) Pay for services as you use them. This basically is only practicable for the top 0.1% (which obviously includes all those Tory Grandees who want to get rid of the NHS). 2) Pay insurance to one of the private health care providers and hope. Probably about the top 10% can afford this (or get it as a job perk). In practice, in my opinion and anecdotal experience, lack of regulation makes this is little better than a scam. The companies will happily take 3 digit premiums per month, and provide certain limited services, but if you develop anything expensive they will do all they can to avoid paying for it and also to try to get you off their books entirely. Even when they do provide services, there tends to be very little depth to their expertise - you hear stories of patients being rushed to NHS casualty because something has gone wrong. So basically private healthcare and insurance in the UK pretty much an expensive flipping disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 2 hours ago, A wilding said: Another of my trigger points: There are basically two options in the UK other than the NHS. 1) Pay for services as you use them. This basically is only practicable for the top 0.1% (which obviously includes all those Tory Grandees who want to get rid of the NHS). 2) Pay insurance to one of the private health care providers and hope. Probably about the top 10% can afford this (or get it as a job perk). In practice, in my opinion and anecdotal experience, lack of regulation makes this is little better than a scam. The companies will happily take 3 digit premiums per month, and provide certain limited services, but if you develop anything expensive they will do all they can to avoid paying for it and also to try to get you off their books entirely. Even when they do provide services, there tends to be very little depth to their expertise - you hear stories of patients being rushed to NHS casualty because something has gone wrong. Dont forget an absolute shit-ton of unnecessary tests and procedures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Well, at least we know now how Brexiteers are going to deal with the Irish border problem. They're going to talk down the Good Friday agreement and say it's a load of bollocks anyway. https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/exnorthern-ireland-secretary-paterson-slammed-for-good-friday-agreement-comment-36616767.html http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/hoey-good-friday-agreement_uk_5a8adf6de4b00bc49f46c3ac Nothing must be allowed to get in the way of the Will Of (Some Of) The People. Not even peace in Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 David Davies reassures the British public that Brexit won't be like Mad Max. Not exactly ringing with optimism. I don't remember them using that as a slogan on the campaign bus. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43120277 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Eats No Peaches Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 I think that might be my favourite headline so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 On 13/02/2018 at 3:07 AM, GAROVORKIN said: Unelected bureaucrats Unelected insurance companies don't tend to consider the actual costs of everything associated with healthcare . No matter how many loopholes the UK government might close or taxes and fees that they raise, much they extort as premiums, they will never be able to provide good services to the majority of people. To control costs and maintain maximum coverage maximise profits , they will be forced to reduce the quality of access to those services The system and how it set up ,managed , budgeted and paid for is the problem. Doesn't The UK still have private healthcare service to cover the shortfall of NHS? the NHS to supply healthcare services to the vast majority of people who could not otherwise afford them? Fixed that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 14 hours ago, mormont said: Well, at least we know now how Brexiteers are going to deal with the Irish border problem. They're going to talk down the Good Friday agreement and say it's a load of bollocks anyway. https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/exnorthern-ireland-secretary-paterson-slammed-for-good-friday-agreement-comment-36616767.html http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/hoey-good-friday-agreement_uk_5a8adf6de4b00bc49f46c3ac Nothing must be allowed to get in the way of the Will Of (Some Of) The People. Not even peace in Ireland. The Good Friday Agreement and Belfast Agreement were ratified by referenda in both the UK and Republic of Ireland, which were passed by 71% and 94% respectively. Is this an argument that the result of referendums should not be respected? Oh wait, of course, referendums should only be respected as long as the people voting in them aren't Irish. That tracks. /s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Mongoose Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 12 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said: David Davies reassures the British public that Brexit won't be like Mad Max. He says, but KFC have already run out of chicken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukle Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 22 hours ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said: Fixed that for you. Haha! Nice. I detest the claims that private healthcare is somehow better. As soon as anything is run for a profit then that has to come from somewhere. When it comes to movies, I don’t mind people making a buck. When it comes to healthcare, I say buff up the public system to whatever it needs and then allow all private to wither away. The only side-effect will be all of the neo-liberals crying that there is no competition or incentive or whatever. As though not dying is somehow not incentive enough to get healthcare right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAROVORKIN Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 23 hours ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said: Fixed that for you. That's Funny, I don't recall requesting a fix on my comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lessthanluke Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said: That's Funny, I don't recall requesting a fix on my comment. Well you needed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Yukle said: Haha! Nice. I detest the claims that private healthcare is somehow better. As soon as anything is run for a profit then that has to come from somewhere. When it comes to movies, I don’t mind people making a buck. When it comes to healthcare, I say buff up the public system to whatever it needs and then allow all private to wither away. The only side-effect will be all of the neo-liberals crying that there is no competition or incentive or whatever. As though not dying is somehow not incentive enough to get healthcare right. You'd be confronted with a lot of angry GP's and pharmacists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Just now, SeanF said: You'd be confronted with a lot of angry GP's and pharmacists. Why would GPs be angry? They're technically self-employed but in practice (heh) get almost all of their income through the NHS contract. If the private system withered away, their income and employment conditions would not effectively change much, if at all. Claiming GPs to be part of the private system would be a technicality at best, absurd at worst. Dentists. You probably meant to say dentists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 26 minutes ago, mormont said: Why would GPs be angry? They're technically self-employed but in practice (heh) get almost all of their income through the NHS contract. If the private system withered away, their income and employment conditions would not effectively change much, if at all. Claiming GPs to be part of the private system would be a technicality at best, absurd at worst. Dentists. You probably meant to say dentists. Their tax bills, however, would rise markedly if they were classed as employees. And, plenty of GPs do private work, although NHS work provides the bulk of their income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, SeanF said: Their tax bills, however, would rise markedly if they were classed as employees. And, plenty of GPs do private work, although NHS work provides the bulk of their income. Why would they be classed as employees? Just because the private system withered away, why would that change the employment status of a contractor who already works pretty much exclusively for the public system? You seem to be taking what Yukle said and replacing it with something that was not said, that every medical practitioner would be forced to work as an employee of the NHS. Again, GPs are not in any significant sense part of the private system at present and were a bad example. Which is weird, because it's not like you have to look far to find a better one, instead of clinging to this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo498 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Health care systems like many other things in modern bureaucratic democracies have a tendency to give one "worst of both worlds" , i.e. competition on the shoulders of the suffering, monopolies, monopsonies, successful rent seeking by those privileged in some way, closed "markets" with very high entry thresholds, too much admin/bureaucracy, lack of options/choices, lobbyists influencing what is covered by public health plans and what is not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 22 hours ago, Slick Mongoose said: He says, but KFC have already run out of chicken. KFC lovers are being urged not to call the police over the fried chicken "crisis". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebble thats Stubby Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I'm kinda surprised that I have not seen any ads for Nando's making the most of KFC chicken shortage. for some reason I am not actually surprised that some people are calling the police about the lack of chicken. the fact that I am not surprised makes me feel sad though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 8 hours ago, mormont said: Dentists. You probably meant to say dentists. Which gives a whole new meaning to Nye Bevan's old line about "stuffing their mouths with gold." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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