Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Howdyphillip

Full frontal Star Wars - D&D Strike Back

140 posts in this topic

18 hours ago, Week said:

Other than Hardhome, the Loot Train, and Battle of the Bastards -- what really has been that special that suggests that D&D should be held in such high regard over others mentioned here? IIRC, they've been show-runners so credit for those scenes should go to the directors of each episode. Which would be Miguel Sapochnik (HH & BoB) and Matt Shakman (LT).

I don't see any reason to single out specific episodes. D&D are and will continue to be judged on the quality of all the episodes and so far it has been a resounding success critically and financially. They deserve credit for that even though they are guilty of being white males.

 

18 hours ago, Week said:

Black Panther is coming out in a week. All of which are equally, if not more, suggestive of his ability against D&Ds.

So far we have seen Creed and Fruitvale Station, which is not suggestive of any suitability for a Star Wars series of films, and hence it is a strange suggestion. The fact that the director is black is more important to the poster. Take a look at Mormont's other suggestions, what is the one thing that he does not want to see as a director of these films? Indeed, a white male. As you say, you are also looking for it to be someone of colour, but that is a very sad point of departure for assessing what the best showrunner for these massive scale new movies will be.

The trailer for Black Panther looks pants by the way. I expect this film will thoroughly disappoint.

The reception to Thor 3 has been extremely divisive, and that is of course because it is a divisive film, ina  totally different style. I for one do not want to see that director touch any other big project. Give this guy the Star Wars films and we'll have Vader mocking himself to death, demoralized and unsure of everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thor: Ragnarok was divisive? Seemed to have an overwhelmingly positive reception to me. 

Edited by Nictarion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Black Panther does seem to have spectacular production design, drawing a lot on afro-futurism, and having the sense as a director to really go for something like that is, IMO, the kind of thing you need in someone who'll do a Star Wars film. Fruitvale Station and Creed were very good, well-put-together films, and combined with the visuals of Black Panther and the buzz of it, I wouldn't have any issue with Coogler.

DuVernay is, sadly, a name that crops up because no one can think of another black female director. DuVernay has a solid historical biopic and an important documentary to her credit, but yeah, she's not a name I'd consider at this time. A Wrinkle in Time may change that, but I've a bad feeling that it's going to be this year's Golden Compass. Hopefully I'm wrong. That said, I'd sooner see Dee Rees than DuVernay, just based on filmography (i.e. she's actually directed more than one feature film, and even has some SFnal work under her belt thanks to an episode of Philip K. Dick's Electric Dreams)

As to Waititi, he does quirky very well, and the Ragnarok production design was pretty good. Is there room for a quirky adventure story in Star Wars? Sure there is. If he was announced teaming up with Donald Glover to do a Lando movie, I'd be excited, especially as I don't suppose someone like Spike Lee could be convinced to go slumming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

I don't see any reason to single out specific episodes. D&D are and will continue to be judged on the quality of all the episodes and so far it has been a resounding success critically and financially. They deserve credit for that even though they are guilty of being white males.

 

So far we have seen Creed and Fruitvale Station, which is not suggestive of any suitability for a Star Wars series of films, and hence it is a strange suggestion. The fact that the director is black is more important to the poster. Take a look at Mormont's other suggestions, what is the one thing that he does not want to see as a director of these films? Indeed, a white male. As you say, you are also looking for it to be someone of colour, but that is a very sad point of departure for assessing what the best showrunner for these massive scale new movies will be.

The trailer for Black Panther looks pants by the way. I expect this film will thoroughly disappoint.

The reception to Thor 3 has been extremely divisive, and that is of course because it is a divisive film, ina  totally different style. I for one do not want to see that director touch any other big project. Give this guy the Star Wars films and we'll have Vader mocking himself to death, demoralized and unsure of everything.

Truly is sad to see racists everywhere dismissing directors/producers/whatever based on their skin colour and gender. I've seen tons of articles like this pop up. It gets hard to believe at times that people like this even exist. The utter lack of self-awareness of these racists is astounding.

A guy with white skin who is attracted to women happened to be hired for a job? Is that really something people get upset over? What the hell does any of those traits have to do with directing a film?

Edited by Sun Worshipper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Calibandar said:

So far we have seen Creed and Fruitvale Station, which is not suggestive of any suitability for a Star Wars series of films, and hence it is a strange suggestion. The fact that the director is black is more important to the poster. Take a look at Mormont's other suggestions, what is the one thing that he does not want to see as a director of these films? Indeed, a white male. As you say, you are also looking for it to be someone of colour, but that is a very sad point of departure for assessing what the best showrunner for these massive scale new movies will be.

I was defending a set of directors that you described pretty negatively - all of whom have made movies that I've enjoyed. I was not advocating for anyone specifically -- the collection of suggestions were D&D and the list Mormont suggested -- I'd thank you to not put words in my mouth nor ascribe my intentions there as well.

37 minutes ago, Sun Worshipper said:

Truly is sad to see racists everywhere dismissing directors/producers/whatever based on their skin colour and gender. I've seen tons of articles like this pop up. It gets hard to believe at times that people like this even exist. The utter lack of self-awareness of these racists is astounding.

A guy with white skin who is attracted to women happened to be hired for a job? Is that really something people get upset over? What the hell does any of those traits have to do with directing a film?

It's really remarkable how fully you missed the point here. To the point of 'reverse racism' -- dude, it's fucking weak and sad to see this shit. I love the "I'm so not racist that I'm going to defend the marginalized white man." 

By the way, to be clear, ad hominem attacks started here. So, violently not appreciated Sun Worshipper.

By all means dudes, keep pushing the "best available" argument which somehow always results in finding a white dude. I have nothing against white dudes -- I am one. I have the awareness to recognize the fallacious argument made that reinforces ongoing institutional marginalization.

Edited by Week

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Week said:

I was defending a set of directors that you described pretty negatively - all of whom have made movies that I've enjoyed. I was not advocating for anyone specifically -- the collection of suggestions were D&D and the list Mormont suggested -- I'd thank you to not put words in my mouth nor ascribe my intentions there as well.

It's really remarkable how fully you missed the point here. To the point of 'reverse racism' -- dude, it's fucking weak and sad to see this shit. I love the "I'm so not racist that I'm going to defend the marginalized white man." 

By the way, to be clear, ad hominem attacks started here. So, violently not appreciated Sun Worshipper.

By all means dudes, keep pushing the "best available" which somehow always results in finding a white dude. I have nothing against white dudes -- I am one. I have the awareness to recognize the fallacious argument made that reinforces ongoing institutional marginalization.

Not an ad hominem attack on you by any means. Never even read your original comment. Reverse racism isn't a thing. Racism is racism, I don't really care much who it's directed towards. The assertion that it is, is just the same lame justification every other group of people has ever convinced themselves to use to discriminate against others throughout history.

Yes, some "white dudes" were hired to make Star Wars movies... is that really an issue? Who cares what colour skin the director of a movie has? Lots of directors are white, is it really strange one of them got a job here? Do you not want the best available director? Disney chose some people they thought would make them money, do you really think the choice was based on race?

Edited by Sun Worshipper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyway, I am optimistic about D&D doing a Star Wars film. They may not be perfect, and Game of Thrones isn't always the best, but I can usually look past the issues (usually) and enjoy the show for what it is. One of my main gripes with TLJ was the overuse of humour, and from what I recall GOT doesn't really have that same problem, so I hope D&D will inject some more serious themes and tone into their film.

EDIT: One thing I am hopefully is that they portray the Sith with that same ominous "evil-ness" that they show the White Walkers. I think that is something they could pull of quite well. Here's hoping.

Edited by Sun Worshipper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the D's are going to be way over their heads without a very, very good writer on board.  We'll see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sun Worshipper said:

Anyway, I am optimistic about D&D doing a Star Wars film. They may not be perfect, and Game of Thrones isn't always the best, but I can usually look past the issues (usually) and enjoy the show for what it is. One of my main gripes with TLJ was the overuse of humour, and from what I recall GOT doesn't really have that same problem, so I hope D&D will inject some more serious themes and tone into their film.

EDIT: One thing I am hopefully is that they portray the Sith with that same ominous "evil-ness" that they show the White Walkers. I think that is something they could pull of quite well. Here's hoping.

Erm, Thrones is full of attempts at humour. Whether you think they work or are immature and low-brow and completely inane (no prizes for guessing my opinion of course...) is another matter, but there are a lot of attempts to be humourous. See anything Brienne/Tormund related, any scene with Bronn, many scenes with Tyrion, constant poop, fart and dick jokes etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Erm, Thrones is full of attempts at humour. Whether you think they work or are immature and low-brow and completely inane (no prizes for guessing my opinion of course...) is another matter, but there are a lot of attempts to be humourous. See anything Brienne/Tormund related, any scene with Bronn, many scenes with Tyrion, constant poop, fart and dick jokes etc.

I didn't mean there was no humour. TLJ and GOT just use their humour in different ways. Tormund raising his eyebrows at Brienne, Bronn and Tyrion jokingly insulting each other, etc, for example is very different than TLJ opening with a prank call & mom joke, or Luke milking a space seal, elephant, whatever-the-hell-it-was. GOT humour usually comes up through conversation, while the latest Star Wars just felt like it was trying too hard and didn't take itself seriously.

Edited by Sun Worshipper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Ran said:

Stay on topic target.

FTFY :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m looking forward to it, hopefully they do something from the old republic era.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Ha, you beat me to it.

I'm not going to jump into this..uh debate, but to the idea that Thor 3 was divisive..isn't the best review Marvel film to date?

From my own social circle and the thread on here about the film, I'd say it was only really divisive in the sense that people thought it was either amazing or solid throwaway popcorn entertainment.

I do think these trilogy announcements would land better if they gave us some idea of what they'd be about as well. Marvel usually gives us 3-4 years notice that a given project is in development (usually way before creators are attached) and that's usually the draw. We follow star wars for star wars. It's not like we're following D&D or Rian Johnson for whatever their next project is (although I have creators I follow in this sense it is easily dwarfed by these big franchises).

So throw fans (and the creators) a bone and let us know what they are going to make 6+ hours of film about it. Unless the new films are spinning out of episode IX (which Johnson's film may well do) then I don't see why they can't say "obi-wan trilogy" or "Boba fett/crime trilogy" or "KOTOR" trilogy. If they did that we'd be speculating far more about that than whether the creators attached are suitable. Although we'd certainly still do that. As it is though, all we have is scrutiny of the creators and whether they are appropriate for Star wars in general. I mean if D&D are doing a trilogy about some interplanetary war, on the edges of star wars space, where leaders of different planets fight to rule a local area while the threat of the mythical Yuuzhan Vong/sith destroying planetary systems in the background - then I'd say D&D were a good (if unimaginative) choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

13 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Ha, you beat me to it.

I'm not going to jump into this..uh debate, but to the idea that Thor 3 was divisive..isn't the best review Marvel film to date?

Yes, extremely divisive. Check out the reviews online, it is very much a love it or hate it film. 

Which, again, makes total sense because it is a very different style of film than the first two and one that reduces the whole film to a satire of Thor films. Others who want to be generous say that Waikiti "embraced the comedy and craziness" . The fact that some did love the non-stop tongue in cheek doesn't mean it doesn't really divide opinions.

There are tons and tons of 1 to 2 star reviews for this film out there, you don't need to do more than a quick google to see it.

But I'm sure none of this will fly with you because hey, you liked it, and thus it's not a divisive film.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you need to qualify what you mean by "divisive". Divisive across the general audience? Hell no. It rates between 7.2 to 7.5 among critics on RT, 74% according to Metacritic, with an audience score of 88% on RT and an IMDB score of 8.0 -- the general audience liked it.

Divisive among hardcore Thor fans (do these even exist? The movies have always been pretty mediocre)? Maybe. They are a small group, much as hardcore A Song of Ice and Fire fans are a small group compared to global casual Game of Thrones fans. This isn't to say the small group is wrong and the big group is right, but merely to show that "divisive" is meaningless without giving a sense of who exactly are the people who feel that way.

And to bring it back to Star Wars, fair to say that the question of future writers/directors/producers of Star Wars is a divisive topic when you isolate certain interest groups, but probably it's fair to say that the vast majority of the potential audience doesn't really care in either direction; they just want more Star Wars.

Edited by Ran

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, divisive in general response, with many people either loving or hating it.

The fact that there are more people who wrote positive reviews than disappointed ones doesn't change that it was divisive.

You mentioned IMDB, stroll through the reviews on there for this film. It goes from 2/10 to 9/10 all the time.

Star Wars Last Jedi is likewise a very divisive film. And yet it is also 7.5 on IMDB.

I went to the cinema and watched 12 strong with Chris Hemsworth last night. Decent film, likely to be around 7 out of 10 as well and that's fair, but that is not a film that is going to be divisive.

Edited by Calibandar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

alright, I'll take the bait:

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/thor_ragnarok_2017

http://www.metacritic.com/movie/thor-ragnarok

I don't think you know what divisive means. Divisive would indicate the fanbase/viewers were somewhat evenly split among those who liked/disliked it, and that is clearly not the case.

2 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

 

The fact that there are more people who wrote positive reviews than disappointed ones doesn't change that it was divisive.

 

Yes. Yes it does. That's kind of the whole point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0