Joe Abercrombie: SPOILER THREAD for all of the First Law books

[Voice]

Just finished the trilogy. I must say, I'm disappointed. I was expecting more. The plot/ending is quite predicable isn't it? I mean Jezal and Ninefingers becoming kings? Saw that coming a mile away. Bayaz being a controlling dick? Yup, that too.

Maybe I'm so used to ASOIAF not having an ending that I can't appreciate one anymore LOL.

So wow, for me the end went out with a fizzle rather than a bang. I'm extremely unimpressed by Abercrombie's writing style. Was the conclusion meant to be so anticlimactic?

[unJon]

Are you sure you read the whole ending? Ninefingers doesn't end as a king.

[Voice]

No, I read that. That sealed the deal for me. Black Dow's mutiny was also pretty predictable. That chapter felt like very rushed writing.

[peterbound]

No, I read that. That sealed the deal for me. Black Dow's mutiny was also pretty predictable. That chapter felt like very rushed writing.

You should write for a living. You seem to got all this shit figured out.

[Gillio]

settles in with popcorn, the last "I write better than Joe does" thread was such fun!

:P

[Voice]

Wow. Really? Is this just a fanboy thread where everyone fawns over the author?

I enjoyed the first two books, and the characters themselves are great. But you have to admit the outcomes are very predictable. Perhaps the foreshadowing was just more obvious than what I'm used to. Disappointing that's all. But maybe I just expected too much?

I wasn't trolling when I asked if the ending is meant to be anticlimactic. Honest question, just wondering if anyone else felt that way.

[peterbound]

Wow. Really? Is this just a fanboy thread where everyone fawns over the author?

I enjoyed the first two books, and the characters themselves are great. But you have to admit the outcomes are very predictable. Perhaps the foreshadowing was just more obvious than what I'm used to. Disappointing that's all. But maybe I just expected too much?

I wasn't trolling when I asked if the ending is meant to be anticlimactic. Honest question, just wondering if anyone else felt that way.

Not a fanboy thread, I just think you're trying too hard.

I didn't think it was predictable. If it was 'trope-y' the bloody fucking nine would have kept the throne. I personally think Joe did a good job fucking with the genre and messing with expectations.

you're just way too cool apparently to see it the same way.

Good for you. It's going to be a blast to see you implode with George lets you down with his Jon + Dany ruling ending.

[Voice]

Not a fanboy thread, I just think you're trying too hard.

I didn't think it was predictable. If it was 'trope-y' the bloody fucking nine would have kept the throne. I personally think Joe did a good job fucking with the genre and messing with expectations.

you're just way too cool apparently to see it the same way.

Good for you. It's going to be a blast to see you implode with George lets you down with his Jon + Dany ruling ending.

Hmm am I? I don't mind hearing some justification and defense of the author. That's exactly why I came to this thread -- to understand others' take on the trilogy. But fanboyish attacks are silly.

I don't argue that it went against the grain. I loved Glotka....loved that Bayaz ended up being the arsehole Ferro and Logen predicted. I didn't want his actions to be morally acceptable and I'm glad it ended up that way. I really enjoyed Jezal's metamorphosis and the puppet-dynamic.

Again, great characters.

Plot-wise though, things felt really obvious in Last Argument. I kept expecting for something to not go according to plan, some twist, something to surprise me, but nothing did. Perhaps the main purpose of the trilogy is to set up the stand-alone books?

[peterbound]

Hmm am I? I don't mind hearing some justification and defense of the author. That's exactly why I came to this thread -- to understand others' take on the trilogy. But fanboyish attacks are silly.

I don't argue that it went against the grain. I loved Glotka....loved that Bayaz ended up being the arsehole Ferro and Logen predicted. I didn't want his actions to be morally acceptable and I'm glad it ended up that way. I really enjoyed Jezal's metamorphosis and the puppet-dynamic.

Again, great characters.

Plot-wise though, things felt really obvious in Last Argument. I kept expecting for something to not go according to plan, some twist, something to surprise me, but nothing did. Perhaps the main purpose of the trilogy is to set up the stand-alone books?

Seriously, you should write your own books. You're obviously a person with superior writing and critical ability.

And fanboy attacks? No. I just think you're off on your critique. You're trying too hard to convince me (and I think yourself) that it's too predictable. Maybe you're just smarter than everyone that read the books before you though. I don't know.

Again, I'm going to enjoy it when George lets you down.

[Voice]

Seriously, you should write your own books. You're obviously a person with superior writing and critical ability.

And fanboy attacks? No. I just think you're off on your critique. You're trying too hard to convince me (and I think yourself) that it's too predictable. Maybe you're just smarter than everyone that read the books before you though. I don't know.

Again, I'm going to enjoy it when George lets you down.

Ah. Ok. Thanks for the constructive dialogue, fanboy.

[peterbound]

Ah. Ok. Thanks for the constructive dialogue, fanboy.

is this supposed to be an attack? You're on a forum dedicated to a book about fucking dragons. You're going to have to do better than that if you're going to insult.

Fanboy is a good thing around here.

[Voice]

LOL very true!

It wasn't an attack though, just a dismissal. I'll lurk in case there's more constructive feedback. I find yours lacking for some strange reason.

[Hello World]

I don't argue that it went against the grain. I loved Glotka....loved that Bayaz ended up being the arsehole Ferro and Logen predicted. I didn't want his actions to be morally acceptable and I'm glad it ended up that way. I really enjoyed Jezal's metamorphosis and the puppet-dynamic.

Again, great characters.

Taking the entire trilogy as a whole, it was not really obvious how things would end up from the get go. But once Bayaz’s plan became clear, yes, things became clear.

Plot-wise though, things felt really obvious in Last Argument. I kept expecting for something to not go according to plan, some twist, something to surprise me, but nothing did. Perhaps the main purpose of the trilogy is to set up the stand-alone books?

If you think it was set-up for the standalones then you missed the whole point of the trilogy.

And seriously, you need to come up with a better criticism than “there wasn’t a last minute plot-twist!” because that’s not a very good one.

[HexMachina]

Well Logen doesn't become King, and Jezal is "King" in name only, and is really nothing more than a puppet despite wanting to be something more.

I really wouldn't say this is a trope-heavy book/trilogy at all and personally I was quite satisfied with the ending.

Also, there are only so many ways to end a book. Just because you expect it to end a certain way and it does, doesn't make that ending any worse.

[Darth Richard II]

I love you guys.

[MerenthaClone]

Again, I'm going to enjoy it when George lets you down.

You act like the next ASOIAF book is actually coming out. We're all going to find out how the series ends through HBO.

Plot-wise though, things felt really obvious in Last Argument. I kept expecting for something to not go according to plan, some twist, something to surprise me, but nothing did. Perhaps the main purpose of the trilogy is to set up the stand-alone books?

To not go according to whose plan? Bayaz's? Because that's kind of the point of the books, that it all was Bayaz's plan to begin with. The ending doesn't work if there's a twist in his plan. (Also, Tolomei having eaten Quai? Bayaz murdering that other magi I can't remember?) Also, Bayaz being a "controlling dick" is an...understatement, imo, but if you figured out that Jezal would end up being a powerless king living in fear of his advisors and the power of the bankers back in the first book, good for you. Wear your smartypants with pride 'cause you're smarter than me.

[johndance]

Just finished the trilogy. I must say, I'm disappointed. I was expecting more. The plot/ending is quite predicable isn't it? I mean Jezal and Ninefingers becoming kings? Saw that coming a mile away. Bayaz being a controlling dick? Yup, that too.

Maybe I'm so used to ASOIAF not having an ending that I can't appreciate one anymore LOL.

So wow, for me the end went out with a fizzle rather than a bang. I'm extremely unimpressed by Abercrombie's writing style. Was the conclusion meant to be so anticlimactic?

Yes it is meant to be anticlimactic. A lot of the trilogy is meant to be the opposite of your cliché fantasy story of good vs. bad war including your long quest journey, underdog hero, Aragorn like warrior, Gandolf like old wizard, happy ending, etc.

On the surface it might appear to have these things but it really doesn't. The 'quest' turns out to be a big hoax all for naught, who knows if Logen is a hero or villain, and Bayaz is a conniving, cheating old man with his own agenda.

Instead of your happy ending where the 'evil lord' is vanquished and the everything is right in the world, you get an ending where the main characters are in some state of disarray. There is the aftermath of the wars filled with destruction and disease. Abercrombie meets his objective here. Imo it's very refreshing. It has elements of fantasy but doesn't follow the stereotypical blueprint. Also the biggest plus for me is that this trilogy does not suffer from one of most fantasy books' biggest flaw: unbalanced and over used magic. This alone makes The First Law one of the better fantasy series that I've read.

[SeanF]

I found the bleak, downbeat, ending of TFL a satisfying one.

[First of My Name]

I'm with SeanF. LAoK was my favorite of the trilogy. Also I think it's not anticlimactic at all, we had huge battles (the seven-day one in the North, Logen and Fenris, Adua), character deaths, and plot twists. The resolution of it all isn't your typical one, but even if you didn't like it you have to admit it was a wild ride getting there.

[Galbrod]

Just finished the trilogy. I must say, I'm disappointed. I was expecting more. The plot/ending is quite predicable isn't it? I mean Jezal and Ninefingers becoming kings? Saw that coming a mile away. Bayaz being a controlling dick? Yup, that too.

Sorry to hear that this series of books did not raise itself to your level of exectations. Personally, I find the predictability of the central parts of the story (like becoming kings, the wise old wizard calling the shots from the shadows etc) to be a very effective way of making the unique and more surprising parts of the story to stand out more. I mean, it's really hard to make a modern remake of an old concept without keeping parts of the storyline the same. To get the most out of the perspective part (if you have not already decided that Abercrombie is not for you) I would definately recommend to continue to read at least 'The Heroes'. Not (primarily) because of the surprises in the storyline, but rather because of the marvellous way in which Abercrombie writes about military conflict from a multitude of views (as well as the suberb characterisation of the key characters).