Bakker XXII: All Aboard the Damnation Express

[Gaston de Foix]

" thread of silver light, swaying across the spiralling heights, flashing across the Carapace. A crack that made ears bleed. Everywhere, raining debris. The anguished wail of innumerable inhuman throats. The whirlwind undone, like the smoke of a snuffed candle, spinning into oblivion." - Kindle location 589 of 12069.

[sologdin]

Because that is not how a laser beam would work.

ghostbusters, dude!

[Shryke]

Is it really in the text somewhere that there was a thread of snaking light that struck the Carapace? Because that is not how a laser beam would work.

Who said it was a laser?

Shit, the dust from the tornado alone would fuck up a laser.

I imagine it's some sort of sci-fi beam weapon.

[Callan S.]

Theory to explain the idotic decision of the nogod joining battle rather than hiding up North until everyone died: while the nogod walked humans were immortal slash didn't die of natural causes. Fits with the theme of the womb plague. Also kinda fits with the nogod stopping he cycle of souls between outside and Earwa.

Not bad. I suppose 10 years isn't long enough for anyone to have noticed it.

Personally I think the nogod is clearly nuts and just does nuts things. They tried to keep him indoors for a hundred years, but he wanted to walk the earth eventually.

[Callan S.]

I would think both that 'snaking beam of light' is simply taken directly from observation of meeting room laser pointers - the further the distance, the more exagerated any tiny movement of the wielders hand is, making the beam snake about.

And a beam that can cut through objects would simply cut through dust clouds (yes, losing some of its energy to the cloud - but then so would a bullet fired through a dust cloud (hell, both a bullet and a laser lose energy to the atmosphere))

Time for a prince of nothing themed mythbusters...

[Gaston de Foix]

The No-God was destroyed not by the Heron Spear but by some practitioner of the Psukhe that preceded Fane but was lost to history. Who else to release a thread of silver light. And the Psukhe was rediscovered, ironically, when the Inrithi, influenced by the Inchies, banished someone for heresy. And this is why Meppa is back. It is known.

the Chorae studded in the carapace should protect against the Psukhe, no?

[Happy Ent]

The No-God is actually a cat. You can’t defeat it, but you can make it catch the red dot for a long time.

[Borque]

what if the setting's godel laid out a proof that the alleged aporetics on the carapace were merely axiomatic undecidabilities, thereby annihilating the NG in a puff of non-contradiction?

I love this, even though it would require some explanation why this Gödelian (meta-aporetic?) sorcerer didn't exploit his choric immunity further.

[Borque]

The No-God is actually a cat.

It is a cat. The "No-God" is actually a typo, it should say "No-Dog" in the text, which makes more sense in this context.

[Gaston de Foix]

I still don't understand the miracle of Serwe's heart. Can someone explain it to me?

[Corvinus85]

The No-God is actually a cat. You can’t defeat it, but you can make it catch the red dot for a long time.

The Whirlwind makes much more sense now.

[Madness]

Nevermind. Didn't read Gaston's post.

[Larry of the Lawn]

I still don't understand the miracle of Serwe's heart. Can someone explain it to me?

Dunyain sleight-of-hand allowed Kellhus to rip her heart out through her slit throat and covertly hide it up his butthole until Cnauir chopped off Sarcellus's head. When they drop the Circumfix Kelly sneaks it out of his butt and quickly lights it on fire. Pretty much cannon at this point.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/96367-bakker-a-discussion-of-rectal-miracles/?hl=bakker

[Happy Ent]

I still don't understand the miracle of Serwe's heart. Can someone explain it to me?

For some reason, this scene brings out the worst in the denizens of this board. (And, yes, I believe that even the phrase “brings out the worst” was able to trigger some fecal connotation with these people.)

Here’s my best explanation: Souls are all connected. In fact, they are pin-pricks to the Outside, where your soul and mine are part of some huge meta-soul, which may (or may not) be identical to the God.

Distance has no meaning in the outside; all souls are simultaneously “here”. It is only in their (temporary) projection in the physical world where souls experience “distantness”. That’s how the cants of calling work; that’s also how teleportation works: they make the soul “forget” their distantness, unifying space for a moment.

At the point of His resurrection, Kellhus is as close to the God as he’ll ever get. (This is the Holiest moment in the entire books. In our own theologies, it corresponds to the moment where Christ is Risen, or the Prophet ascends. Epic level. Whatever the metaphysics of the fictional setting allows: now is the moment.) So Kellhus reaches into the physical location of his soul (namely, his ribcage). His Holy Wife has just died according to Scripture; no two souls were ever closer. He reaches into the Outside whatever that means, grabs her heart (which is right “there”, whatever that means), and rips it out.

Crazy? No more crazy than whole demons being summoned, which we know can be done because we’ve even had a POV from them. Clearly, stuff can move between Out- and Inside.

I think it makes complete sense within the metaphysical framework.

[Callan S.]

The No-God was destroyed not by the Heron Spear but by some practitioner of the Psukhe that preceded Fane but was lost to history. Who else to release a thread of silver light. And the Psukhe was rediscovered, ironically, when the Inrithi, influenced by the Inchies, banished someone for heresy. And this is why Meppa is back. It is known.

That reminds me of someone who had a theory that the no god just broke somehow at about that point and the heron spear did nothing/wasn't relevant.

[Callan S.]

I think with the heart if you remeber the picks heart and how the outside is more about what is desired rather than what just is, the miracle might be considered some kind of raw magic where the outside (somewhat like Akka's description of a bead of water tapped on a page) bursts in on someone who is under great trial. Then much like happy ents description, it's not a matter of space and time but instead desire that determines what can be.

[Gaston de Foix]

For some reason, this scene brings out the worst in the denizens of this board. (And, yes, I believe that even the phrase “brings out the worst” was able to trigger some fecal connotation with these people.)

Here’s my best explanation: Souls are all connected. In fact, they are pin-pricks to the Outside, where your soul and mine are part of some huge meta-soul, which may (or may not) be identical to the God.

Distance has no meaning in the outside; all souls are simultaneously “here”. It is only in their (temporary) projection in the physical world where souls experience “distantness”. That’s how the cants of calling work; that’s also how teleportation works: they make the soul “forget” their distantness, unifying space for a moment.

At the point of His resurrection, Kellhus is as close to the God as he’ll ever get. (This is the Holiest moment in the entire books. In our own theologies, it corresponds to the moment where Christ is Risen, or the Prophet ascends. Epic level. Whatever the metaphysics of the fictional setting allows: now is the moment.) So Kellhus reaches into the physical location of his soul (namely, his ribcage). His Holy Wife has just died according to Scripture; no two souls were ever closer. He reaches into the Outside whatever that means, grabs her heart (which is right “there”, whatever that means), and rips it out.

Crazy? No more crazy than whole demons being summoned, which we know can be done because we’ve even had a POV from them. Clearly, stuff can move between Out- and Inside.

I think it makes complete sense within the metaphysical framework.

that's a fantastic explanation- thanks.

[Gaston de Foix]

I read somewhere that you could see the presence of the Gods in the first trilogy, though Kellhus' and Akka's skepticism made it hard to find. So far I can see only three examples: Inrau's fire finger thing (maybe from Onkhis) and Kellhus' prediction about punishing the Shrial Knights (Anagke, the Whore of Fate, helping it come true) as well as the Miracle of Serwe's heart of course.

Anyone else think of other examples?

[Maithanet]

I read somewhere that you could see the presence of the Gods in the first trilogy, though Kellhus' and Akka's skepticism made it hard to find. So far I can see only three examples: Inrau's fire finger thing (maybe from Onkhis) and Kellhus' prediction about punishing the Shrial Knights (Anagke, the Whore of Fate, helping it come true) as well as the Miracle of Serwe's heart of course.

Anyone else think of other examples?

You could say that Cnauir was channeling his War God (I forget the name) when he was fighting and defeating dozens of Conphas' troops in TTT.

[Kalbear]

There's a whole bunch of gilgaol touching people during the battle scenes.

It isn't particularly explicit.