aceluby Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Binge watched the whole season on Thursday/Friday. Holy shit did I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Binge watched the whole season on Thursday/Friday. Holy shit did I love it. It's been a long time since I watched 2 episodes a day of a show too. It doesn't help that the cliffhangers for the last few episodes are "well I'll just watch the first 5 minutes of the next episode..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 What hooks me is the way they ebb and flow everything together. Some slower parts, but mixed in with a lot of fist pumping moments. I never do this, but I'll probably re-watch it after I'm done w/ Peaky Blinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 What hooks me is the way they ebb and flow everything together. Some slower parts, but mixed in with a lot of fist pumping moments. I never do this, but I'll probably re-watch it after I'm done w/ Peaky Blinders. It's great for the fist pump moments - i think it's nice to have shows where their lives aren't always about loss. I'm hoping this article is true where they think the delay on renewal is because they may be trying to lock the show in for several seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJ Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 If they had wanted to trim the number of sensates a little, I think Lito is the one that could be cut the easiest. He has the least impact on other members' backstories and the over-arching plot. The trouble is, who the hell would want Lito to be cut? That's just crazy talk. :) As for what the different sensates bring to the group, Lito's acting skills are probably of questionable worth. They hand-wave it by saying it enables him to lie better - but the reality is he's just too awesome to not be there. I think Wolfgang is actually the one with the least to offer. There's nothing he gives particularly that couldn't be covered by Will or Sun. But at the end of the day, they went with 8 members and the stories and/or characters are all interesting enough that I wouldn't want to lose any. (And I suppose you could argue that Wolfgang's coldness enables him to act calmly in extreme situations moreso than all other members of the group). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I suspect it's been plotted so that even if they aren't relevant in season 1, they become so later. I doubt any can be cut. And it's not just Wolfgang's coldness, it's his willingness to risk himself. He's not in a good place emotionally, [spoiler] which is why he was the one to play chicken. Sun and Capheus and Will are all capable of killing in self defense, but only Wolfgang is self destructive enough to put it on the line and risk himself in such a huge way. Also that must have been Whispers real body, the eyes thing doesn't work otherwise and he wouldn't care if it died (although he might care if the sensates do? He wants them alive. [/spoiler] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Regarding Lito [spoiler] His acting skills could come in very useful if they ever need to do spy work - especially for as long as whispers doesn't know who everyone is. We saw this in the final episode. Other bizarre situations he could be useful for is if one of the other sensates minds are messed up and he can pretend to be them so that friends don't think he's crazy. Probably most useful for Kala. Although he'd also have to know her a little better first. [/spoiler] Regarding Whispers. [spoiler] I think you're right in that it probably is Whispers real body. Although I think he can get in everyones head just by getting into one of them, so I'm still not 100% how the eye contact works. I guess Jonas can't "see" all the others despite seeing Will and Nomi. The show does make a point of always showing us the person in control rather than the actual body - the only exception being when whispers took over the lobotomised guy. [/spoiler] Another thing I'd like to see in a future season is what happens if someone dies while in another body? Hopefully they won't do this with the core cluster as we could potentially lose two characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I guess, technically, you never saw scenes from her childhood :) Yeah. I tried again, but couldn't go through it. It's very brutal. [spoiler] When the guy mentioned the labotomy scene, I was hooked on the idea she's the ninth member. I think, for some reason, I just thought the kid in those scenes was Riley. It's clearly Sarah though. Although now I'm kind of side she's been turned into a vegetable and a possible spare part for Whispers. Or has she? I'm wondering if the sensates ever really die while there's a member of their cluster left? The "mother" keeps turning up at various times after her death (I recall the scene with Sun). Does this mean that Sarah's consciouness is still hanging around in Will's brain? So we may get her as a "ghost" unless there's some way of giving her back to her body in future. Regardless of that speculation it provides a neat explamation for how Will could do sense8 stuff before he was birthed by merit of him being lucky enough to make eye contact with one of his cluster. This also goes a long way to justifying why Will seems to be the one using the power willingly while the others tend to do so on an unconscious level.[/spoiler] Very interesting. I hadn't even thought about [spoiler]Angelica's continued presence. I just assumed they [the sensates] were each remembering a horrific moment. I like your idea better. I wonder, if that's the case, will the other sensates be able to "meet" Sarah? I can see this show blowing my mind with each season.[/spoiler] I'd happily watch some webisodes of Leto's films - they looked super awesome. There is also The Passion of the Sinner, in which the chronically tardy protagonist says stuff like "my heart is not a clock," and Our Father Who Art in Hell. Kyoshi - I like your idea on interactions being based on need. [spoiler] In a way it explains why Kala and Wolfgang have the least chats with other members with the exception of each other. As you said Wolfgang needs Kala to deal with emotional issues. [/spoiler] With regards to a spectrum. [spoiler] I think Nomi and Will are the most "balanced" of the group in terms of not having extreme emotional qualities. It's maybe what makes them less interesting as individuals and good targets for plot? It may also make them the "leaders" of the group too? [/spoiler] According to my spreadsheet, the sensates mostly interact when they need something from the one another, or when the other sensate they "visit" or "host" has had a similar experience, and can therefore shed some light on how to deal with the relevant problem. For example, [spoiler]when Sun decides to confess to her brother's crimes, we see Kala walking through Sun's father's gate. At the same time, Kala is getting married and we see Sun on the wedding palanquin. When Riley is tormented by the death of her child and husband, Capheus shows up at the grave and tells her about his sister, about how "life and death are always so mixed up together, some beginnings are endings and some endings are beginnings."[/spoiler] Stuff like that happens all the time in the show. This is how I broke down the interactions between the sensates: --- Sensing: This is the lowest level of their sensate abilities. They are not aware of one another in this state, only one another's surroundings. For example, a chicken that's in Capheus's Van Damn disrupts Sun while she is working, but Sun and Capheus are not aware of one another. --- Visiting: One sensate leaves his/her surroundings and enters another's. --- Hosting: The opposite of visiting. Analysing it this way, I ended up with a total of 272 interactions which include sharing/visiting with Yrsa and Jonas but don't include Sarah Patrell and Daryl Hannah. The split of interactions between the sensates is as follows: Sensate Number of Interactions % of total Kala 31 11.4 Capheus 25 9.19 Lito 21 7.72 Lowest Will 53 19.5 Highest Nomi 32 11.8 Riley 51 18.8 We should definitely watch out for Riley in future seasons. Sun 26 9.56 Wolfgang 33 12.1 Other interesting observations: [spoiler] --- Will and Riley are the first two to be truly aware of one another.[Happens in Episode 1] --- The above incident happens after Riley takes Benjen Stark's drugs. This may or may not be important later on. --- Will and Riley are followed by Wolfgang and Kala in Episode 2. There was no Benjen Stark in this case. --- The first time three sensates "collide" is when Capheus needs help (after the bus has been stolen). He says, "Help me" after appearing in Sun's boxing ring. Sun helps with the hand-to-hand combat while Will shows up when a gun is needed to fight. However, Sun and Will never appear at the same time, and Capheus is never "aware of them". That is, we never see two sensates on the screen at once. [Episode 3] --- The first sensate to connect to all sensates at the same time is Riley, with the 4 Non Blondes song. [Episode 4] --- As the series progresses, we get less sensing interactions and more visiting and hosting. Towards the end, there are more three-people-and-more interactions, most of them with Will in them.[/spoiler] I ranted about the music in an earlier post. I was wrong. The music is awesome and I haven't been able to stop listening to Sigur Ros. I told my brother to watch the series and he reminded me just how much we were like Capheus growing up. Our reverence for JCVD, Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris and other martial artists/movie stars was unparalleled. Finally, for those of you judging me for having a spreadsheet, I have this to say :P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I think the forum is broken again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I forgot to mention, [spoiler]one of the articles linked by Red Snow says the sensates will eventually be able to share one another's memories. I think this has already happened with Will and Riley. The more obvious case is in the last episode where Will is pregnant. Riley is not in that moment, but she was in the past. I also think Riley saw Sarah in Will's memories. I don't know how to explain the scene but it's while she lies unconscious and he becomes her, while she becomes him.[/spoiler] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I think the forum is broken again. I think you broke it with the excellent analysis above! I'll respond properly after work but my hat's off to you with those stats. One quick thing about multiple interactions [spoiler] Don't forget the orgy! I put that down to being a primal thing so it's easier for them all to join in - especially when more than one of them are already having sex in their normal sphere of life. Could be interesting how that's one of the areas Lito shares. [/spoiler] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Ha, you made me giggle remembering "that" Will and Lito meeting finally properly in the finale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Kyoshi - that spreadsheet is awesome (it's worth saying twice). I think based on that we should maybe consider Will and Riley as the central "parents" and maybe put Nomi between Lito and Will. The sexuality thing possibly puts Lito and Nomi closer together although another order could be Lito, Riley, Will, Nomi as you could do the spectrum as a reflective thing (in terms of interaction stats anyhow). some of your spoiler points [spoiler] it is interesting how our "central characters" interact with each the most in the same way that the "edge" characters do. As you suggest it could be a need thing where extremes need each other for having emotions/attitudes the other lacks while Will and Riley may actually be kindred spirits. Will is clearly driven by a need to help others which partly explains how he interacts the most and maybe Riley needs the most help? I'd have thought that was Capheus but it's clearly just because his scenes of being helped really stand out because they are action packed. Like you say the "what's going on song" arguably stems entirely from the fact that Riley is listening to it - so it maybe says a lot about her latent power that the rest of the cluster actually feels the song too. Maybe in the way that Lito and Nomi having sex caused almost all the group to take part in the orgy? [/spoiler] On rewatches did people pick up any additional info on Sarah Patrell? [spoiler] it seemed to be a case that almost destroyed Will's dad and seemed to get Will put under psych evaluation. He's lucky it never alerted whispers way back then. The thing is if Sarah was a sensate how did Whispers know prior to her "birth". I'm thinking eye contact between sensates still triggers the connection and that the "birthing" is just a way to know who they are without seeing them. This still raises the question of why can't Whispers birth them himself? Why did he need Jonas and Darryl Hannah for that? It's why I still feel there's a lot more to Whispers other than him just being another sensate. [/spoiler] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Yeah, I like the spreadsheet. It's actually a good way to analyze the show both for the internal logic of telepathy but also at the level of assessing the narrative and it's treatment of the characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJ Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Regarding Lito His acting skills could come in very useful if they ever need to do spy work Yeah - that occured to me after I posted too, actually. I can definitely see a scenario where they need to infiltrate a building or facility dressed as a security guard or something. Lito would be in control to talk their way past the front desk. Then Sun takes over to use her leet ninja skills to take out one or two real security guards. Nomi hacks into the computer to download the VITALLY IMPORTMANT information to a flash drive. Then all goes to hell and Will has to shoot his way out. Sounds pretty cool, actually. Oh... and Capheus obviously drives the getaway car. :) Season 2 finale perhaps? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJ Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Kyoshi - in your data for your spreadsheet, do you have the actual number of discrete interactions? If you add up the interactions in your data, you get 272. But as there's at least two people involved in each, so there's a maximimum of 136 different ones. And then you get the times where there's 3 or more people interracting, so... possibly around 100 different interractions (or less?) While the ratios remain the same between the different members, it would be interesting to see just what percentage of discrete interactions the likes of Will and Riley are involved in. (At 100 total, Will must be present in 53% of them, which is quite a lot. At even 136 total, he'd be in 39% - and it has to be less than 136) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Yeah - that occured to me after I posted too, actually. I can definitely see a scenario where they need to infiltrate a building or facility dressed as a security guard or something. Lito would be in control to talk their way past the front desk. Then Sun takes over to use her leet ninja skills to take out one or two real security guards. Nomi hacks into the computer to download the VITALLY IMPORTMANT information to a flash drive. Then all goes to hell and Will has to shoot his way out. Sounds pretty cool, actually. Oh... and Capheus obviously drives the getaway car. :) Season 2 finale perhaps? :lol: This is pretty much exactly what happened in the finale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJ Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Yeah - certainly some similarity. I recall it being a bit different - but I think I really need to do a rewatch. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Yeah - certainly some similarity. I recall it being a bit different - but I think I really need to do a rewatch. :lol: Well sure, the basic scenario was different. It was Riley they were rescuing, not important information. But the actions the characters performed were almost exactly as you suggested they should do for a s2 finale. Nomi was the hacker, Sun fought off two security guards, Lito did some acting to get to the room where Riley was held....basically, they were all using their skills. Every single one used their skills to complete a task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJ Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Lito's acting is probably the thing I just didn't recall. And I thought Nomi was hacking from offsite rather than being "present" (small distinction, I know - and I'm not even sure I'm recalling it correctly). So yeah... I saw it as being a bit different. But that's probably more a factor of my faulty memory than anything. :) As an aside - I think the general idea of them all using their skills to accomplish a given task is something that will recur in the show at key times. I definitely wasn't stating that them doing so would be anything different than what we've seen already. I was more posing a scenario as to how it may next happen (and it sounds like my scenario was a little too similar to the one we've already seen - mea culpa). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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