will LF give sansa some sort of seduction training?

[Queen Sansa Stark]

And neither is marrying young girls the norm in this book series. Usually highborn girls are betrothed on a young age (11/12/13) but actually marry much older. (16/17/18) Catelyn and Cersei were both 18/19 when they married. Sure they may be considered "women" when they have flowered, but it is still kind of frowned upon in Westeros. I mean Viserys found it kind of queer that Drogo was into young girls. Or Tyrion himself repeatedly says that Sansa is a child. So please lets stop about the deal "It's okay in Westeros for girls to marry that young".

[Marillon]

Considering all the things GRRM has written, if LF giving Sansa tips is what he tagged as "controversial", that's just ridiculous.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Considering all the things GRRM has written, if LF giving Sansa tips is what he tagged as "controversial", that's just ridiculous.

But it was said there will be a Sansa chapter that might considered controversial in some regions of the fandom. So it is highly likely it isn't even controversial.

[It's Not That Littlefinger]

god i hope not. but it could be considered "contraversial"

and sanda is definitely 13. or at least she says so some time in affc (i dont know when exactly). maybe some time has passed since then, but shes still to young.

[Woman of War]

I am very disturbed by this weird desire some fans have to not just see Sansa getting sexual but actually spend so much time normalising and excusing it.

There is so much fanfiction out there, written by Sansa fans, who depict Sansa having all kinds of sex. I do not see why it suddenly would be "ohhhh nooooo......" If Martin wrote his own version instead of versions by those who steal from him.

[White Ravens]

I hope GRRM spares us having to read about LF giving Sansa any sort of seduction training. The thought of it is creepy as hell.

[Lord Reaver]

There is so much fanfiction out there, written by Sansa fans, who depict Sansa having all kinds of sex. I do not see why it suddenly would be "ohhhh nooooo......" If Martin wrote his own version instead of versions by those who steal from him.

It would be ohhh noooooo, because I wouldn't dream of paying those people to write that stuff. I would be paying mr Martin for his latest book. Thus, I expect a certain level of quality in my purchase.

[Silverin]

There is so much fanfiction out there, written by Sansa fans, who depict Sansa having all kinds of sex. I do not see why it suddenly would be "ohhhh nooooo......" If Martin wrote his own version instead of versions by those who steal from him.

Haven't you ever learnt that you shouldn't generalise people?

I am a Sansa fan and I see her as a kid and never wrote any fanfiction, and never even read. Majority of the Sansa fans I am friends with also see her as a kid. (and not shipping her with Sandor), but I gotta admit I avoid discussions with about that topic (I find the ship gross, but if we see the LF/tyrion/Sandor gross trio, Sandor is a little better choice than the other two, but that is like choosing which sickness is the least fatal, if that three is her only choice Sansa should just decide to become a septa and be done with men.)

There are a truly dark spaces in the internet of course, but it is not that just about Sansa, there are the Arya Gendry ones as well, also there is Reek Theon, or basically anything with any character. If you want to choose a character and proove that her/his fans are sick or prevert or something like that with strawman generalisation you will definietly find some suitably disgusting fanfics.

Anyway back to Sansa. the thing is I don't see the political ambition in her at all, that might change later, but to me she seems to be want to be left alone.

I know many people think she might get into politics one way or another (LF v2, Cersei vs2, or just simply killing them or becomming mastermanipulator or something), but I don't see it. Not because I think she wouldn't be able to do them, but because I don't see her wanting to do any of these manipulations unless they were necessery. I could see her trying to do something if it is a life or death situation, or someone she cares about is in danger, but otherwise she lacks the ambitions yet to be like LF. If Cersei said if you play the game of thrones you live or die, Sansa then decided that she just simply tries not to play it and get as far away from the game as possible, which is actually a rather smart conclusion and I hope she keeps it, she is safer that way. In that sense the one player I could see her becomming similar is more of Olenna who decided that instead of marrying a Targ stay out of the politics of KL, and marry an also powerful and kinda dumb lord, but when she knew that her granddaughter might be in danger she acted on it and pulled a rather merciless move. And that means if Sansa starts to take the Olenna route she could still do controversial things, after all Olenna did frame innocents like Sansa and tyrion, and wanted to use her, so she is definietly not a saint.

I just feel like if Sansa were to be similar to any of the player she met so far, I think Olenna would be the closest strategy wise (stay far away from the snake nest), another reason why I think Sansa could be more similar to her is because Olenna makes her manipulation through the many women she surronds herslef, and Sansa too actually spends a lot of time with other girls company. I also think it is smarter to learn how to influence the women, and how to be a queen bee among them. Why seduce ten men, when you can influence their wifes, lovers who already hold significant power over them. That way she can have influence over way more men (although inderectly), than if she tries to seduce every single one of them. I find this Queen Bee type of ruling (rule the wives who rule their husbands) quite lacking in the series, and since Sansa loves to spend time with other girls I would prefer if she learns this kind of manipulation (that the Tyrells are the closest to), since it is something she might be more naturally good at, and more comfortable. Because while she is pretty and has a good personality I don't really see how would she becmoe a femme fatale like Arianne.

[Lord Reaver]

That way she can have influence over way more men (although inderectly), than if she tries to seduce every single one of them. I find this Queen Bee type of ruling (rule the wives who rule their husbands) quite lacking in the series, and since Sansa loves to spend time with other girls I would prefer if she learns this kind of manipulation (that the Tyrells are the closest to), since it is something she might be more naturally good at, and more comfortable. Because while she is pretty and has a good personality I don't really see how would she becmoe a femme fatale like Arianne.

The problem with the Queen Bee approach is that LF's court and the Vale in general doesn't seem very conductive to that sort of approach. There is Lady Waynwood, but other than her, I can't recall many women in power. Neither do the Lords seem very inclined to bring their wives to court. There doesn't seem to be the same courtly intrigue setting for women in the Vale as there is in King's Landing or the Reach. Perhaps we just haven't seen it yet though, and that may change...

[Silverin]

The problem with the Queen Bee approach is that LF's court and the Vale in general doesn't seem very conductive to that sort of approach. There is Lady Waynwood, but other than her, I can't recall many women in power. Neither do the Lords seem very inclined to bring their wives to court. There doesn't seem to be the same courtly intrigue setting for women in the Vale as there is in King's Landing or the Reach. Perhaps we just haven't seen it yet though, and that may change...

Oh I agree.

But this idea that the only way a women can have influence over a man if she can seduce him, well it is not true. :)

Also actually according to studies men have their defenses more up when they are more aware that someone is trying to seduce them or influence them, than when dealing with someone they don't consider dangerous. So they might consider a very beautiful woman who comes onto them dangerous and pay more attention not to fail for the manipulation (though they still might compeletly fail like tyrion, but still be aware that they are manipulated), but lets say a not particularly dangerous girl, or even old lady just simply puts one or two sentences in the right time in the right conversation, people might not even have any awarness and even later can't see it that harmless person just manpulated them because those words were not peculiar, yet those one or two seemingly hamrless sentences already did what they intention was.

Agatha Cristie has really good manipultavie characters like that, they would basically eat for breakfast all the wannabe manipulators in Asoiaf (she has some weaker books though), who think seducing=manipulation.

I am just saying I would prefer if more women who manipulet =/= seductress would be given as examples. We already have so many seducter type manpiluative women. We seriously lack the manpilutaive woman character who can mess things up and influence people whitouth having to be all flirty and and such.

[SpringKing]

LF needs Sweet Robin alive at least until Sansa and Harry are married. Otherwise Harry becomes Lord of the Vale, independent of his guardian Lady Waynwood, and LF loses most of his power in the Vale, and a lot of control over his schemes.

LF also needs Sansa to remain a virgin because its the best way to have her marriage to Tyrion annulled. LF intends that Sansa marry as herself, not Alayne so annulment has to happen before the marriage to avoid bigamy.

Sansa will accidentally kill Sweet Robin with an overdose of sweetsleep, the second ot two cups that Maester Colemon didnt want to administer. SR's accidental death aligns with the 'giant doll' prophesy where Sansa accidentally rips the head off SR's doll. With Sansa's penchant for blaming innocent people, I wouldnt be surprised if she shifts the blame on Colemon.

[Another Locust]

Oh, so it's one of these threads. *stuffs popcorn into mouth and chews vigorously*

[Annara Snow]

LF needs Sweet Robin alive at least until Sansa and Harry are married. Otherwise Harry becomes Lord of the Vale, independent of his guardian Lady Waynwood, and LF loses most of his power in the Vale, and a lot of control over his schemes.

LF also needs Sansa to remain a virgin because its the best way to have her marriage to Tyrion annulled. LF intends that Sansa marry as herself, not Alayne so annulment has to happen before the marriage to avoid bigamy.

Sansa will accidentally kill Sweet Robin with an overdose of sweetsleep, the second ot two cups that Maester Colemon didnt want to administer. SR's accidental death aligns with the 'giant doll' prophesy where Sansa accidentally rips the head off SR's doll. With Sansa's penchant for blaming innocent people, I wouldnt be surprised if she shifts the blame on Colemon.

Could you explain that bit about Sansa's "penchant for blaming innocent people"? What examples can you name of that supposed penchant?

[Queen Sansa Stark]

LF needs Sweet Robin alive at least until Sansa and Harry are married. Otherwise Harry becomes Lord of the Vale, independent of his guardian Lady Waynwood, and LF loses most of his power in the Vale, and a lot of control over his schemes.

LF also needs Sansa to remain a virgin because its the best way to have her marriage to Tyrion annulled. LF intends that Sansa marry as herself, not Alayne so annulment has to happen before the marriage to avoid bigamy.

Sansa will accidentally kill Sweet Robin with an overdose of sweetsleep, the second ot two cups that Maester Colemon didnt want to administer. SR's accidental death aligns with the 'giant doll' prophesy where Sansa accidentally rips the head off SR's doll. With Sansa's penchant for blaming innocent people, I wouldnt be surprised if she shifts the blame on Colemon.

SpringKing I was wondering when you would pop up in this thread :rolleyes:

[Lord_Tyrell]

I don't see why he needs to. Harry is a whoremonger, and I'm sure he'll know who she is as well. Plus the type of seduction training Littlefinger does is simply horrifying. Look at poor Jeyne Poole.

[Waylin Stark]

Oh my goodness, please NO.

[Winnief]

I don't see why he needs to. Harry is a whoremonger, and I'm sure he'll know who she is as well. Plus the type of seduction training Littlefinger does is simply horrifying. Look at poor Jeyne Poole.

Good god, don't remind me. I think if Sansa learns flirting from anyone it will be another woman like Miranda...and I'm not so sure it will be about learning 'seduction techniques,' but about a woman to woman discussion of the facts of life, and how to enjoy her own sexuality.

I don't see Sansa going the "femme fatale" route like Cersei, and relying on her 'second purse," I think she will become a player, but I think she'll rely more on understanding people and diplomacy as strategies. And as said-she's not especially interested in gaining great power...kudos to whoever suggested she'd take Olenna as a role model.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Good god, don't remind me. I think if Sansa learns flirting from anyone it will be another woman like Miranda...and I'm not so sure it will be about learning 'seduction techniques,' but about a woman to woman discussion of the facts of life, and how to enjoy her own sexuality.

I don't see Sansa going the "femme fatale" route like Cersei, and relying on her 'second purse," I think she will become a player, but I think she'll rely more on understanding people and diplomacy as strategies. And as said-she's not especially interested in gaining great power...kudos to whoever suggested she'd take Olenna as a role model.

I expect Sansa to become the "Queen of Thorns" of her generation in the North. She will probably not hold an "official" title, but still hold tremendous power.

[SpringKing]

Could you explain that bit about Sansa's "penchant for blaming innocent people"? What examples can you name of that supposed penchant?

I suppose the following examples may have been overlooked or forgotten:

• "Nothing bad would have happened except for Arya."

• "It was all her fault, everything bad that had happened. Sansa said so, and Jeyne too."

"Your butcher’s boy attacked the prince.”

“I’m not like Arya,” Sansa blurted. “She has the traitor’s blood, not me. I’m good,"

“I saw... I was with the Lady Lysa when...” A tear rolled down her cheek. That’s good, a tear is good. “... when Marillion... pushed her.”

[mambru]

I think there won't be any 'seduction training' from LF. It would be counterproductive. If Sansa 'seduced' Harrold Hardyng in the usual sexual sense, it would doom any chance of her actually getting to marry him. Harry is no Robb, nobly willing to make an honest woman out of the maiden he deflowered by marrying her. The two bastards he's sired showed he's a more traditionalist macho sort. And to the traditionalist privileged male, a virgin who gives it up to a man before the wedding is a slut - fine for having fun with, but certainly not suitable for marriage. Even if Sansa acts too knowing about sex WITHOUT giving up the goods, she risks the 'slut' label that would make her undesirable for marriage.

LF can't risk that. What LF needs is to give Sansa lessons in how to make someone fall in love - and honestly, I don't that he CAN teach that. He's only ever managed to do it once in his entire life - then he threw her off a mountain.