Daenerys Stormborn - A Re-Read Project Part II: ACoK & ASoS

[Fire Eater]

As for the scene with the manticore, Dany manages to show some good judgement and analyze the situation quickly pointing out to her bloddriders and Jorah that it was to save her from the manticore.

I completely agree about Gerion Lannister. Him and Jaime seem to be the only Lannisters Tyrion is fond of. I wouldnt be surprised at all if he shows up soon (with or without Brightroar), and chooses to side with Dany. From Tyrions description he seems like a much nicer guy than come members of his family, he obviously did not have a problem with Tyrion being a dwarf, and it even sounded a little like he was ok with Tywin being embarrassed of Tyrion. If he is the corsair king do we know how many ships are in his fleet? I can't remember if there is much detail about it at all??

Dany will already have a fleet, the Iron Fleet along with ships captured in the Battle of Meereen, and enough ships to carry her people to Westeros. Since Gerion would be a pirate, than she would most likely meet him at sea, and to cross the sea she would have to have a fleet in the first place. He would have close to a decade's worth of naval combat experience akin to the GC's professional soldiers. As for the number of ships, if we follow the size of the fleets of the most successful pirates in the Carribean around the Golden Age of Piracy, I would say around fifty.

From what I know about Gerion, he was more of a father to Tyrion than Tywin was. He gave Tyrion Votar's books, and set him on tables to recite them. He gave Tyrion the encouragement and confidence that he needed.

[Mithras]

I think the Iron Fleet would not serve Dany without Victarion. If he dies, they just turn back or sack Meereen. The only option for Gerion commanding all the fleet of Dany is that Victarion leaves the Iron Victory and rides Rhaegal.

[SeanF]

As for the scene with the manticore, Dany manages to show some good judgement and analyze the situation quickly pointing out to her bloddriders and Jorah that it was to save her from the manticore.

Dany will already have a fleet, the Iron Fleet along with ships captured in the Battle of Meereen, and enough ships to carry her people to Westeros. Since Gerion would be a pirate, than she would most likely meet him at sea, and to cross the sea she would have to have a fleet in the first place. He would have close to a decade's worth of naval combat experience akin to the GC's professional soldiers. As for the number of ships, if we follow the size of the fleets of the most successful pirates in the Carribean around the Golden Age of Piracy, I would say around fifty.

From what I know about Gerion, he was more of a father to Tyrion than Tywin was. He gave Tyrion Votar's books, and set him on tables to recite them. He gave Tyrion the encouragement and confidence that he needed.

The Iron Fleet numbers 54 ships. Even assuming they beat the slaver fleet, and capture more ships, that's probably not enough to get thousands of people to Westeros. In any case, sailing directly to Westeros is dangerous, as ships get sunk in storms. They'd need to go from port to port.

That probably means Volantis has to be captured, and it looks as though it's about to revolt in Dany's favour.

If Dany can win over some part of the Dothraki, the best option would probably be for most of her people to march overland through the Dothraki Sea, and then down to Volantis. That would be a long route, but probably quite a secure one.

[OldGimletEye]

She is going to need one helluva quartermaster. Maybe she'll appoint Tyrion as her G-4.

[Mithras]

The Iron Fleet numbers 54 ships. Even assuming they beat the slaver fleet, and capture more ships, that's probably not enough to get thousands of people to Westeros. In any case, sailing directly to Westeros is dangerous, as ships get sunk in storms. They'd need to go from port to port.

That probably means Volantis has to be captured, and it looks as though it's about to revolt in Dany's favour.

If Dany can win over some part of the Dothraki, the best option would probably be for most of her people to march overland through the Dothraki Sea, and then down to Volantis. That would be a long route, but probably quite a secure one.

Sack of Volantis is a must. Tyrion knows how to do it. I will make a thread on this but for now, these two quotes show that we will have it in WoW:

Tyrion understood that quick enough. Alone amongst the major river towns, Selhorys stood upon the eastern bank of the Rhoyne, making it much more vulnerable to the horselords than its sister towns across the river. Even so, it is a small prize. If I were khal, I would feint at Selhorys, let the Volantenes rush to defend it, then swing south and ride hard for Volantis itself.

What he [Tyrion] really wanted was the complete text of The Fires of the Freehold, Galendro’s history of Valyria. No complete copy was known to Westeros, however; even the Citadel’s lacked twenty-seven scrolls. They must have a library in Old Volantis, surely. I may find a better copy there, if I can find a way inside the Black Walls to the city’s heart.

The incoming Volantene Fleet will be defeated. Some people think that GRRM will pull out another plot gift to Dany and the slave soldiers in the fleet will turn their cloaks for her without a battle. I don't think so. Victarion already reflected on how he was defeated at the straits of Fair Isles while passing through the Yaros Straits. I think he will prepare an ambush there with the help of Moqorro and his numerical disadvantage will be out of concern. The slaves might still turn their cloaks after they see their chance of winning the battle is close to zero.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Sack of Volantis is a must. Tyrion knows how to do it. I will make a thread on this but for now, these two quotes show that we will have it in WoW:

Tyrion understood that quick enough. Alone amongst the major river towns, Selhorys stood upon the eastern bank of the Rhoyne, making it much more vulnerable to the horselords than its sister towns across the river. Even so, it is a small prize. If I were khal, I would feint at Selhorys, let the Volantenes rush to defend it, then swing south and ride hard for Volantis itself.

What he [Tyrion] really wanted was the complete text of The Fires of the Freehold, Galendro’s history of Valyria. No complete copy was known to Westeros, however; even the Citadel’s lacked twenty-seven scrolls. They must have a library in Old Volantis, surely. I may find a better copy there, if I can find a way inside the Black Walls to the city’s heart.

The incoming Volantene Fleet will be defeated. Some people think that GRRM will pull out another plot gift to Dany and the slave soldiers in the fleet will turn their cloaks for her without a battle. I don't think so. Victarion already reflected on how he was defeated at the straits of Fair Isles while passing through the Yaros Straits. I think he will prepare an ambush there with the help of Moqorro and his numerical disadvantage will be out of concern. The slaves might still turn their cloaks after they see their chance of winning the battle is close to zero.

Cool, thanks for posting that. Also in Dany's last dance chapter she is flying on Drogon out of Mereen and looks at the Valyrian road leading out of SB towards Volantis and she thinks 'the way home'. I think you are right about some of her army going on foot that way and some taking ships towards Selhorys and Volantis.

[Parwan]

We are getting ahead of ourselves again. I will put forth two claims here. I don't intend to defend them until we get to the proper place in the story.

1. The word "sack" is often misused in these forums. If there is a successful uprising in Volantis, things may go very badly for the current rulers. However, the city does not have to be sacked in order for events to turn sharply in Dany's favor.

2. Dany will get to Westeros. This means she will get a fleet. For her to get the Volantene fleet would be pretty much of a natural development. It would be far less of a plot gift than for her to get the Iron Fleet. In essence, Victarion's plan is to murder her husband, then abduct and rape her. He doesn't see it that way. So what? Consider the guy's house--the activities, the attitudes, and the words. They celebrate rape and theft while denigrating honest work.

[Fire Eater]

snip

Victarion will be outnumbered in ships at least 5 to 1 or worse odds. I don't see that happening, as he wants to leave before the Volantene fleet arrives.

The man wore the mask of a Brazen Beast, the fearsome likeness of a tiger. As he dropped the weapon to try and pry apart Viserion's jaws, flame gouted form the tiger's mouth.

I think this possibly points to the tiger cloaks siding with Dany with flames coming from his mouth as a reference to them siding with Dany, the dragon. I think Dany could get the tigers to defect when they see her dragons, Moqorro proclaiming her AA as Benerro has already, with half the tiger cloaks worshiping the Lord of Light. I think it may be akin to the Moonsingers getting the slaves on a Valyrian ship to overthrow the Valyrian masters and head to Braavos.

[PatrickStormborn]

The blood of the dragon would not be herded through the bazaar by an old man and a fat eunuch.

I think this points to Dany not being herded by the old man and the fat eunuch, Illyrio and Varys, into their own schemes. Since AGoT, her actions have resulted in their original plans going south.

Ah, nice observation! Being "herded through the bazaar" definitely sounds like being part of a mummer's show, and it ties in nicely with the references to the mummer's dragon in this chapter. It may also warn us that Aegon is not the "blood of the dragon", in the same way that Viserys and Aerys were not (although I don't think he will necessarily be mad).

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

snip.

Great analysis Susanne Stormborn :bowdown:

Dany's fashoin seems to play a symbolic part in her journey and chapters, just like how fashion plays a symbolic role in Sansa's arc.

She tells Irri she does not want to wear the ‘airy’ girly dress, that ‘the docks are no place for ladys finery’.

She decides to dress in the Dothraki fashion since the Milk Men already think her a savage. She also puts a bell at the end of her braid although she specifically points out to Irri that ‘I have won no victories’. Irri replies ‘ You burned the maegi in their house of dust and sent their souls to hell.’ Dany thinks ‘That was Drogon’s victory not mine.’ And that ‘the Dothraki would esteem her all the more for a few bells in her hair.’

When Dany is wearing gown/silk etc or in other words the Queen motif she seems to be in positions where she is powerless and reliant on others and also has to please them. Examples that come to mind are as we have seen in Qarth she must dress lie them, her wedding to Drogo and in Meereen she must dress like them, in these events she is in helpless situations and is relying on others. However when Dany removes these and dresses in her Khaleesi vest and troousers it symbolically represents her being in power and also shows her being herself in other words the khaleesi motif, where she actively rides and doesn't send people to do things to her.

Dany makes this transition at the end of the chapter it is also so similar to the moment she removes gown in Xaro's caravan and when she removes her tokar in Meereen. I have a very good feeling Dany will return to meereen in a Dothraki vest and trousers in other words she will return as khaleesi, which she failed to be during her whole time in Meereen and I believe thats where she is more comfortable as. Some quotes in relation to this

Ser Jorah would sooner have tucked her inside her palanquin, safely hidden behind silken curtains, but she refused him. She had reclined too long on satin cushions, letting oxen bear her hither and yon. At least when she rode she felt as though she was getting somewhere.

In Meereen I was a queen in silk, nibbling on stuffed dates and honeyed lamb, she remembered. What would my noble husband think if he could see me now? Hizdahr would be horrified, no doubt. But Daario …

She lifted her veil and let it flutter away. She took her tokar off as well. The pearls rattled softly against one another as she unwound the silk. “Khaleesi?” Irri asked. “What are you doing?” “Taking off my floppy ears.”

Irri helped her slip from her court clothes and into more comfortable garb; baggy woolen breeches, a loose felted tunic, a painted Dothraki vest.

I also like your comparison of the dragons to the ring in LOTR. I think it fits nicely in relation to everybody coming to Meereen for Dany

It felt really sad when Dany says to Ser Jorah:

“A knight of my Queensguard.” Dany took his arm. “And my true friend and good counselor .”

In AGOT we find out that Dany has never really had any friends, she finally thinks that she has found one in Ser Jorah only to realize later he had betrayed her.

I thought it was really interesting how astute Dany was about the price of the brass plate, she knew what it really cost and how to haggle for it. Perhaps some of the things she learned from being on the run and begging weren't too bad. :)

I also felt sad especially when you read the chapter where she finds out he betrayed her.

He’s gone, then. My father and my mother, my brothers, Ser Willem Darry, Drogo who was my sun-and-stars, his son who died inside me, and now Ser Jorah . . .

It also shows how lonely she is in Meereen, especially when she abandons her dragons aswell.

Sack of Volantis is a must. Tyrion knows how to do it. I will make a thread on this but for now, these two quotes show that we will have it in WoW:

Tyrion understood that quick enough. Alone amongst the major river towns, Selhorys stood upon the eastern bank of the Rhoyne, making it much more vulnerable to the horselords than its sister towns across the river. Even so, it is a small prize. If I were khal, I would feint at Selhorys, let the Volantenes rush to defend it, then swing south and ride hard for Volantis itself.

What he [Tyrion] really wanted was the complete text of The Fires of the Freehold, Galendro’s history of Valyria. No complete copy was known to Westeros, however; even the Citadel’s lacked twenty-seven scrolls. They must have a library in Old Volantis, surely. I may find a better copy there, if I can find a way inside the Black Walls to the city’s heart.

The incoming Volantene Fleet will be defeated. Some people think that GRRM will pull out another plot gift to Dany and the slave soldiers in the fleet will turn their cloaks for her without a battle. I don't think so. Victarion already reflected on how he was defeated at the straits of Fair Isles while passing through the Yaros Straits. I think he will prepare an ambush there with the help of Moqorro and his numerical disadvantage will be out of concern. The slaves might still turn their cloaks after they see their chance of winning the battle is close to zero.

Those quotes have always been in my mind, thats why I believe Volantis is definitely going to happen. And there is too much history of the city Martin has showed us for it to not be explored. I'm also curious of Dany's reactions if she goes there cause she lived there once maybe she will smell home.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Great analysis Susanne Stormborn :bowdown:

Dany's fashoin seems to play a symbolic part in her journey and chapters, just like how fashion plays a symbolic role in Sansa's arc.

When Dany is wearing gown/silk etc or in other words the Queen motif she seems to be in positions where she is powerless and reliant on others and also has to please them. Examples that come to mind are as we have seen in Qarth she must dress lie them, her wedding to Drogo and in Meereen she must dress like them, in these events she is in helpless situations and is relying on others. However when Dany removes these and dresses in her Khaleesi vest and troousers it symbolically represents her being in power and also shows her being herself in other words the khaleesi motif, where she actively rides and doesn't send people to do things to her.

Dany makes this transition at the end of the chapter it is also so similar to the moment she removes gown in Xaro's caravan and when she removes her tokar in Meereen. I have a very good feeling Dany will return to meereen in a Dothraki vest and trousers in other words she will return as khaleesi, which she failed to be during her whole time in Meereen and I believe thats where she is more comfortable as. Some quotes in relation to this

Ser Jorah would sooner have tucked her inside her palanquin, safely hidden behind silken curtains, but she refused him. She had reclined too long on satin cushions, letting oxen bear her hither and yon. At least when she rode she felt as though she was getting somewhere.

In Meereen I was a queen in silk, nibbling on stuffed dates and honeyed lamb, she remembered. What would my noble husband think if he could see me now? Hizdahr would be horrified, no doubt. But Daario …

She lifted her veil and let it flutter away. She took her tokar off as well. The pearls rattled softly against one another as she unwound the silk. “Khaleesi?” Irri asked. “What are you doing?” “Taking off my floppy ears.”

Irri helped her slip from her court clothes and into more comfortable garb; baggy woolen breeches, a loose felted tunic, a painted Dothraki vest.

Yes I was just saying on the R+L=J thread that Dany's fashions are very important in her story. They represent her adaptability to new cultures and to show her versatility. She is not one-sided and more than anything she is not stuck in her ways. Her whole life has been on the run, moving around, she has had to learn customs and etiquette in many different cities. While she is not the most intelligent or highly educated person int he world she certainly can read people and knows how to give them what they want. She fully understands the precise way to dress to make her point hit home with whichever audience she keeps that day.

Actually it's kind of bothering me on the show how she has been wearing that same blue dress for 2 straight seasons!!

[Nictarion]

Actually it's kind of bothering me on the show how she has been wearing that same blue dress for 2 straight seasons!!

Thank you!!!! Give her some new dresses ffs.

[SeanF]

Thank you!!!! Give her some new dresses ffs.

She had a nice White dress when she received the Yunkish envoy.

[Nictarion]

She had a nice White dress when she received the Yunkish envoy.

Oh yeah your right. She looked amazing in that dress.

[Annara Snow]

Finally I'm almost caught up with the thread!

Great analysis of THOTU, guys. I'm not sure if there's much to add, you've covered almost every possible theory.

I agree that the prophecies and the visions Dany was later showed are the same. We can also conclude that if Dany knew a person or heard a familiar name in the visions, she would have recognized that and it would have been noted clearly (like she named Viserys). I think these visions somehow give us important plot points in Dany’s arc.

What might be the reason why Dany was shown her father’s wildfire plot? I think that is simply because that plan will be reactivated by the Mad Queen (Cersei). Although Dany will win the Dance, she will not be able to sit on his father’s throne because the KL will be burned by then. We all know that TV show is no canon but we also know that these guys know the major events yet to come. I am sure they asked GRRM “Who will sit on the iron throne at the end?” and he answered “What iron throne?” In the TV show, Dany walks alone in the scorched throne room where the roof is partially collapsed and snow is falling down.

Prophecy 1: three fires must you light... one for life and one for death and one to love...

Prophecy 2: three mounts must you ride... one to bed and one to dread and one to love...

Prophecy 3: three treasons will you know... once for blood and once for gold and once for love...

Fire 1: Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth.

Fire 2: A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him.

Fire 3: Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman’s name.

... mother of dragons, daughter of death...

Mount 1: Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow.

Mount 2: A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd.

Mount 3: From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire.

... mother of dragons, slayer of lies...

Treason 1: Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars.

Treason 2: A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly.

Treason 3: A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.

... mother of dragons, bride of fire...

I think it is better to tag these visions and prophecies like this.

As the daughter of death, Dany will light three fires (for life, for death and to love).

As the slayer of lies, Dany will slay three lies by mounting three mounts (to bed, to dread and to love).

As the bride of fire, Dany will know three treasons (for blood, for gold and for love).

I think the tall grasses were meant to point that the white lion is a dwarf, Tyrion Lannister. I think these last three visions (I will refer to them as the white lion, dosh khaleen, Mhysa) represent some of Dany’s battles.

We know Mhysa is for the taking of Yunkai. Dosh khaleen denotes the prophecy of the Stallion by which Dany will unite a great khalassar. And the white lion (Tyrion) is for the sacking of Volantis, which I feel very confident lately and mean to make a thread on this when I have the chance.

Tyrion understood that quick enough. Alone amongst the major river towns, Selhorys stood upon the eastern bank of the Rhoyne, making it much more vulnerable to the horselords than its sister towns across the river. Even so, it is a small prize. If I were khal, I would feint at Selhorys, let the Volantenes rush to defend it, then swing south and ride hard for Volantis itself.

“Do you take me for a Dothraki?” Tyrion asked sourly. The Dothraki ate horse, in truth; they also left deformed children out for the feral dogs who ran behind their khalasars. Dothraki customs had scant appeal for him.

The gods did not fashion me to wield a sword, he [Tyrion] thought, so why do they keep putting me in the midst of battles?

I think Tyrion will apply this strategy and ride with Dany’s khalassar to Volantis. I admit it will be funny as hell. Tyrion says he is not fashioned to wield a sword. Maybe they will give him an axe or an arakh.

I'm not sure that there's a strong basis for the popular opinion that the white lion refers to Tyrion. I can see why people would like it to or think it should - as Tyrion is most likely going to meet Dany pretty soon in TWOW. However, the image itself doesn't suggest a small lion - as it is a part of the group of (non-metaphorical) images from Dany's past and future, it is most likely to be a reference to the hrakkar, the great white lion of the plains, that Drogo hunted and brought her in AGOT, and whose pelt Dany started wearing in ACOK to cover her burnt head. It's never been mentioned how big it is, but I would think that, with references to a "great white lion" and Drogo's pride in catching him, he wasn't supposed to be small. "Grass taller than a man" can simply mean that the grass is tall, not that the lion is small.

Furthermore, I don't see the connection between Tyrion and the white color. The only Lannister who is associated with whiteness is Jaime (being a Kingsguard member/LC).

Except Dany isn't the last dragon. You are ignoring Jon. The more subtle clues point to him. The trio given her never include her. The dragon being singular doesn't mean little, as it can be a trinity, three aspects of the same being.

I don't see how you can state with assurance that Jon is "the last dragon" rather than Dany. Your argument is that he is "the last dragon" because he is Rhaegar's son. That doesn't work for me, because:

1) Jon is not necessarily a "dragon" at all. Having Targaryen DNA does not necessarily make one a metaphorical "dragon". Jorah pointed out that Viserys was not a dragon, even though Viserys believed otherwise; he thought Rhaegar was the last dragon, despite having a living brother and sister. Later on, Dany realized that she was a "dragon" rather Viserys. Viserys also never felt any connection to the dragon eggs.

Now, I apologize for comparing Jon to Viserys of all people, I'm certainly not comparing them personality-wise (LOL). I'm just saying that Targ DNA is not all. We know that a bunch of people in the series have it, including all the Baratheons and the Martells, Brown Ben Plumm, etc. If Aegon is a Blackfyre, he also belongs to the list.

Jon does not have a Targaryen identity; if he finds out about his true parentage, he may start identifying as a Targaryen (probably alongside his existing Stark and Snow identities) - or he may not. He was never brought up as a Targaryen, never identified with their heritage, was never connected to dragons, never dreamed of the Iron Throne. He is a warg just like the five Stark children, strongly bonded with a direwolf, and the connection is just as strong as between Bran and Summer etc. The direwolf bond in particular points to Jon's primary identity as a Stark - even though Jon feels he doesn't entirely belong to them as a bastard, he thinks of Ned as his father and Arya, Robb, Bran, Rickon and Sansa as his siblings. If he does start identifying with his Targaryen heritage, too, I doubt that it will ever equal, let alone overshadow his northern, Stark identity.

(I also find it really annoying and mind-boggling that so many fans believe that only the father's side of the family matters when it comes to identity. That's generally one of my annoyances with the fandom.)

Dany, on the other hand, explicitly has all sorts of dragon imagery, is bonded with literal dragons, has dreams of flying as a dragon and being told she is 'the last dragon' etc.

2) Even if Jon and Dany both identify as dragons; how can you be sure that Jon would be the "last dragon"? We don't know which one of the two will live longer. Jon isn't younger than Dany - in fact, he's a little bit older, if I have my timelines right - in any case, they are of almost the same age, so it's not like he is "the next generation" compared to Dany.

[Fire Eater]

Within was a glittering green scarab carved form onyx and emerald. Beautiful, she thought. This will help pay for our passage.

The manitcore was a bad omen in the Middle Ages. I think there are two possible interpretations for this. One is the black and green refers to the second Dance of Dragons. The other is the colors of Tyrion's eyes, as the manticore in mythology is usually depicted as part lion. Tyrion will help Dany cross the Narrow Sea to Westeros.

I don't see how you can state with assurance that Jon is "the last dragon" rather than Dany. Your argument is that he is "the last dragon" because he is Rhaegar's son. That doesn't work for me, because:

I thought I was clear that Dany simply wasn't "the last dragon", since there was another dragon, Jon, so calling Dany "one of the last dragons" would be more accurate. I never called Jon anywhere "the last dragon, that is just a straw man.

1) Jon is not necessarily a "dragon" at all. Having Targaryen DNA does not necessarily make one a metaphorical "dragon". Jorah pointed out that Viserys was not a dragon, even though Viserys believed otherwise; he thought Rhaegar was the last dragon, despite having a living brother and sister. Later on, Dany realized that she was a "dragon" rather Viserys. Viserys also never felt any connection to the dragon eggs.

Now, I apologize for comparing Jon to Viserys of all people, I'm certainly not comparing them personality-wise (LOL). I'm just saying that Targ DNA is not all. We know that a bunch of people in the series have it, including all the Baratheons and the Martells, Brown Ben Plumm, etc. If Aegon is a Blackfyre, he also belongs to the list.

Jon does not have a Targaryen identity; if he finds out about his true parentage, he may start identifying as a Targaryen (probably alongside his existing Stark and Snow identities) - or he may not. He was never brought up as a Targaryen, never identified with their heritage, was never connected to dragons, never dreamed of the Iron Throne. He is a warg just like the five Stark children, strongly bonded with a direwolf, and the connection is just as strong as between Bran and Summer etc. The direwolf bond in particular points to Jon's primary identity as a Stark - even though Jon feels he doesn't entirely belong to them as a bastard, he thinks of Ned as his father and Arya, Robb, Bran, Rickon and Sansa as his siblings. If he does start identifying with his Targaryen heritage, too, I doubt that it will ever equal, let alone overshadow his northern, Stark identity.

He does have a Targaryen identity, only it is hidden. The problem with the others you brought up except Viserys is that they aren't Targaryens, and therefore subject to dragon identities. Jon has been referenced to dragons several times throughout the series. I think that his Targaryen identity would simply be balanced with his Stark identity. The song of ice and fire is about balance, not the dominance of one over the other.

[Annara Snow]

He does have a Targaryen identity, only it is hidden. The problem with the others you brought up except Viserys is that they aren't Targaryens, and therefore subject to dragon identities. Jon has been referenced to dragons several times throughout the series. I think that his Targaryen identity would simply be balanced with his Stark identity. The song of ice and fire is about balance, not the dominance of one over the other.

He can't have a Targaryen identity if he's not aware of it. Maybe he will develop it one day when he finds out about his true parentage; that's still to be seen.

Define "a Targaryen". Is it someone who has been brought up as a Targaryen? Jon hasn't. Is it someone who has the last name Targaryen? Jon doesn't, and it's uncertain if he will ever have it.

I don't remember Jon's dragon references, can you refresh my mind? I can think of more Tyrion and Arya dragon references, and I'm pretty sure neither of them has a Targaryen parent (no, I don't believe in Targ Tyrion crackpot).

[MoIaF]

He can't have a Targaryen identity if he's not aware of it. Maybe he will develop it one day when he finds out about his true parentage; that's still to be seen.

Define "a Targaryen". Is it someone who has been brought up as a Targaryen? Jon hasn't. Is it someone who has the last name Targaryen? Jon doesn't, and it's uncertain if he will ever have it.

I don't remember Jon's dragon references, can you refresh my mind? I can think of more Tyrion and Arya dragon references, and I'm pretty sure neither of them has a Targaryen parent (no, I don't believe in Targ Tyrion crackpot).

There is a crazy amount of dragon references in Arya's chapters, I think more so than in Jon's chapters. All these references make me think that she'll be meeting up with Dany in Essos and travel back with her to Westeros. Here are examples of dragon references in Arya's chapters.

Slowly the shapes around her took on form. Huge empty eyes stared at her hungrily through the gloom, and dimly she saw the jagged shadows of long teeth. She had lost the count. She closed her eyes and bit her lip and sent the fear away. When she looked again, the monsters would be gone. Would never have been. She pretended that Syrio was beside her in the dark, whispering in her ear. Calm as still water, she told herself. Strong as a bear. Fierce as a wolverine. She opened her eyes again.

The monsters were still there, but the fear was gone.

Arya got to her feet, moving warily. The heads were all around her. She touched one, curious, wondering if it was real. Her fingertips brushed a massive jaw. It felt real enough. The bone was smooth beneath her hand, cold and hard to the touch. She ran her fingers down a tooth, black and sharp, a dagger made of darkness. It made her shiver.

“It’s dead,” she said aloud. “It’s just a skull, it can’t hurt me.” Yet somehow the monster seemed to know she was there. She could feel its empty eyes watching her through the gloom, and there was something in that dim, cavernous room that did not love her. She edged away from the skull and backed into a second, larger than the first. For an instant she could feel its teeth digging into her shoulder, as if it wanted a bite of her flesh. Arya whirled, felt leather catch and tear as a huge fang nipped at her jerkin, and then she was running. Another skull loomed ahead, the biggest monster of all, but Arya did not even slow. She leapt over a ridge of black teeth as tall as swords, dashed through hungry jaws, and threw herself against the door.

Could she find the room with the monsters again? She wasn’t certain, yet she knew she had to try…

It took her more than an hour to find the low narrow window that slanted down to the dungeon where the monsters waited.

This time the monsters did not frighten her. They seemed almost old friends. Arya held the candle over her head. With each step she took, the shadows moved against the walls, as if they were turning to watch her pass. “Dragons,” she whispered. She slid Needle out from under her cloak. The slender blade seemed very small and the dragons very big, yet somehow Arya felt better with steel in her hand.

Eddard Stark had taken the girls to the castle godswood, an acre of elm and alder and black cottonwood overlooking the river. The heart tree there was a great oak, its ancient limbs overgrown with smokeberry vines; they knelt before it to offer their thanksgiving, as if it had been a weirwood. Sansa drifted to sleep as the moon rose, Arya several hours later, curling up in the grass under Ned’s cloak. All through the dark hours he kept his vigil alone. When dawn broke over the city, the dark red blooms of dragon’s breath surrounded the girls where they lay.

It would be better once they got to Harrenhal, the captives told each other, but Arya was not so certain. She remembered Old Nan’s stories of the castle built on fear. Harren the Black had mixed human blood in the mortar, Nan used to say, dropping her voice so the children would need to lean close to hear, but Aegon’s dragons had roasted Harren and all his sons within their great walls of stone.

Arya was remembering the stories Old Nan used to tell of Harrenhal. Evil King Harren had walled himself up inside, so Aegon unleashed his dragons and turned the castle into a pyre. Nan said that fiery spirits still haunted the blackened towers. Sometimes men went to sleep safe in their beds and were found dead in the morning, all burnt up.

“Don’t see why no one wants neither o’ you,” Yoren said, “but they can’t have you regardless. You ride them two coursers. First sight of a gold cloak, make for the Wall like a dragon’s on your tail. The rest o’ us don’t mean spit to them.”

“The Nine Free Cities are the daughters of Valyria that was,” the kindly man taught her, “but Braavos is the bastard child who ran away from home. We are a mongrel folk, the sons of slaves and whores and thieves. Our forebears came from half a hundred lands to this place of refuge, to escape the dragonlords who had enslaved them. Half a hundred gods came with them, but there is one god all of them shared in common.”

“Him of Many Faces.”

“And many names,” the kindly man had said.

“I sold three cockles to a courtesan,” Cat told the sailors. “She called to me as she was stepping off her barge.” Brusco had made it plain to her that she was never to speak to a courtesan unless she was spoken to first, but the woman had smiled at her and paid her in silver, ten times what the cockles had been worth.

“Which one was this, now? The Queen o’ Cockles, was it?”

“The Black Pearl,” she told them. Merry claimed the Black Pearl was the most famous courtesan of all. “She’s descended from the dragons, that one,” the woman had told Cat.

Sometimes she brought back sailor’s tales, of strange and wondrous happenings from the wide wet world beyond the isles of Braavos, wars and rains of toads and dragons hatching.

The kindly man was waiting for her at the House of Black and White, seated on the edge of the temple pool. The ugly girl sat next to him and put a coin on the lip of the pool between them. It was gold, with a dragon on one face and a king on the other.

“The golden dragon of Westeros,” said the kindly man. “And how did you come by this? We are no thieves.”

“It wasn’t stealing. I took one of his, but I left him one of ours.”

The kindly man understood. “And with that coin and the others in his purse, he paid a certain man. Soon after that man’s heart gave out. Is that the way of it? Very sad.” The priest picked up the coin and tossed it into the pool. “You have much and more to learn, but it may be you are not hopeless.”

That night they gave her back the face of Arya Stark.

"…And there were wyrms in that red darkness too.”

“Earthworms?” she asked, frowning.

“Firewyrms. Some say they are akin to dragons, for wyrms breathe fire too. Instead of soaring through the sky, they bore through stone and soil. If the old tales can be believed, there were wyrms amongst the Fourteen Flames even before the dragons came.” …

"Didn’t the slaves rise up and fight?"

"Some did," he said. "Revolts were common in the mines, but few accomplished much. The dragonlords of the old Freehold were strong in sorcery, and lesser men defied them at their peril. The first Faceless Man was one who did.”

“The Moonsingers led us to this place of refuge, where the dragons of Valyria could not find us,” Denyo said.

If I had wings I could fly back to Winterfell and see for myself. And if it was true, I’d just fly away, fly up past the moon and the shining stars, and see all the things in Old Nan’s stories, dragons and sea monsters and the Titan of Braavos, and maybe I wouldn’t ever fly back unless I wanted to.

(I also find it really annoying and mind-boggling that so many fans believe that only the father's side of the family matters when it comes to identity. That's generally one of my annoyances with the fandom.)

:agree: This is so true. At least it should be considered that his mother (and her lineage) will have as much influence on Jon as as his father's lineage in future events. I tend to believe his mother's side will be more influential to Jon as he was raised as a Stark.

ETA.

[Annara Snow]

There is a crazy amount of dragon references in Arya's chapters, I think more so than in Jon's chapters. All these references make me think that she'll be meeting up with Dany in Essos and travel back with her to Westeros. Here are examples of dragon references in Arya's chapters.

There's also (spoilers for the sample chapter from Winds of Winter) -

The King of the Mummers ignored the brief commotion. He was still talking, telling the mummers how magnificent they must be. Besides the Westerosi envoy, there would be keyholders in the crowd this evening, and famous courtesans as well. He did not intend for them to leave with a poor opinion of the Gate. “It shall go ill for any man who fails me,” he promised, a threat he borrowed from the speech Prince Garin gives on the eve of battle in Wroth of the Dragonlords, Phario Forel’s first play.

“The first Black Pearl was black as a pot of ink,” said Daena. “She was a pirate queen, fathered by a Sealord’s son on a princess from the Summer Isles. A dragon king from Westeros took her for his lover.”

“I would like to see a dragon,” Mercy said wistfully. “Why does the envoy have a chicken on his chest?"

[Hodor the Articulate]

^ A lot of those references seem to be in a negative context. Even in the passage where the bones don't scare her anymore, Arya "felt better with steel in her hand".