Sci-2 Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Who the fuck cares? If it's GRRM level delays, then the response to those delays is the same: stop fucking whinging, it'll come when it comes I don't particularly care, just speculating on the downward spiral of Bakker's SFF career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 dayjob came swirling down, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gormenghast Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 he finished the first draft in 2013 and then went into a deep page 1 rewrite before submitting it. I don't know if there's additional editorial involved at the stage it is currently at before publication is set, or if that additional editorial was concurrent with the months of rewriting that has already occurred. Usually the kind of editing that can happen when a book is actually finished and delivered is included within the year that it takes to publish the book (for lesser known authors, otherwise you can expect 6 months). So I'd say that if delays happen at this stage they are 100% responsibility of the publisher, and not the author. If it takes longer than the end of 2014 then blame Orbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 They still have to slot in a place for the actually, you know, PRINTING of said book, although this is usually less a problem with smaller publishers(IT is, I believe, why it took so long for The Grim Company to come out in the US). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diziet Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 This is from the Sagas entry in TTT Glossary, “The Book of Generals,” the story of the deceptive events following Nau-Cayûti’s murder ... "The Eämnoriad", the story of ancient Atrithau's expulsion of Seswatha and subsequent survival... What are the deceptive events following Nau-Cayuti's murder? And is there any info on why Seswatha was expelled from Atrithau? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diziet Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I don't particularly care, just speculating on the downward spiral of Bakker's SFF career. It seems to me that he had some great potential early on. The first trilogy was getting excellent reviews from the likes of the Guardian and Publishers Weekly (according to his website). It's only after the Bakker and Women threads here that the downward swiral started. This forum literatlly ruined Bakker's career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 This forum literatlly ruined Bakker's career. I agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 measure is unceasing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Atrocius crackpot prediction: (has probably already been speculated) re: Deceptive events after Nau-Cayuti's death; Seswatha's expulsion from Atrithau. Seswatha founded the Dunyain and the Mandate, with the idea that they would remain separated until the Dunyain were strong enough to take full advantage of the Gnosis. This would require them to do a few thousand years of breeding and training, so he created the two separate orders, knowing they would eventually merge to either destroy or resurrect Tsurumah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I do believe that a version of this has been speculated but not necessarily the detail about the Dunyain needing time before they'd really be ready for the Gnosis. If that were the case, I wonder what we would be to make of the early rejection of sorcery upon reaching Ishual. Allow them to train their minds so that they can come to the gnosis without preconceived notions of what is and is not possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Allow them to train their minds so that they can come to the gnosis without preconceived notions of what is and is not possible? Pretty much. Basically that their apprehension of the Gnosis was limited by the boundaries of their minds, so they needed to strengthen them in a 'sterile' environment untouched by sorcery. Maybe the idea started as a parallel to the Inchies grafts; where they used the Tekne to improve their bodies, the Dunyain would use selective breeding and the Logos to hone minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I agree with this.In a sense yes, which is why I brought up the misogyny argument a few threads back and "The Whirlwind" came down on me. But, I think you really can't discount that fact he shouldn't have did what he did. Feeding the fire. But, then again if there are only "dozen's of us" on these threads, I don't think this forum actually ruined his career. I believe if TUC is a great book and has otherworldly ending his career could be ressurected, so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latan Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I think people who say this forum ended Bakker's career are severely overstating the impact of this forum, what downward spiral is he currently in? He is currently a midlist author with hopefully his best book soon to be I stores, with a few years in between books these forums have run out of new material to debate and now turn on the very material being debated . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I thought we came to the conclusion that this shit was relatively minor last time we had this discussion? I mean, I'd like to see sales before we immediately take credit for "destroying" a midlist author's career based on the fact that he had some reviews from the Guardian and now he doesn't. EDIT: Ninja'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolivar Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 From what I gleaned from Pat's last interview, isn't his publisher more successfully marketing The Aspect Emperor than they did with The Prince of Nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 All I know is I've gotten three people to read this series. Two woman and a man. I never told em about these threads, and asked for them to give their thoughts on the books, as they went along. All said the had a little trouble getting through some of the rape parts.....but overall they loved the books, and would recommend them. Then, I told them to take a look at the threads and some of the more serious issues discussed. They didn't get it. The two woman both said that it comes with the setting and also that its fantasy. So I really have no idea why these books don't have better sales, other than the fact that Bakker ruined his image online. But, people that know nothing about it, and have the series recommended to them seem to really love the series. So......I can't believe a forum ruined his career. It has to be with his publishing and the ability to get his name and the series out there. Because, anyone I've asked if they've heard of him or the series, its always a NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I think people who say this forum ended Bakker's career are severely overstating the impact of this forum, What, we? Flattering ourselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I have had very little success recommending this series. I have given DTCB to three people, all of whom enjoy fantasy. Two gave up in the first book as it "wasn't my thing" or "wasn't any fun". I think they were frustrated that Kellhus was so unlikeable. The third really liked parts of the PoN series, but found Bakker's prose to be really awful at times, and eventually gave up on the series after TJE. I have become much, much more selective about giving this series out, even to people who love fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I have had very little success recommending this series. I have given DTCB to three people, all of whom enjoy fantasy. Two gave up in the first book as it "wasn't my thing" or "wasn't any fun". I think they were frustrated that Kellhus was so unlikeable. The third really liked parts of the PoN series, but found Bakker's prose to be really awful at times, and eventually gave up on the series after TJE. I have become much, much more selective about giving this series out, even to people who love fantasy. I've given it to two. One of whom liked it but never did finish TWP. The other never finished TDTCB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I'm in a small town book club. I sensed the people who would enjoy the dark and gritty sense of the books. Yes, all did have a little frustration with kellhus in TDTCB. I told them to stick through it, it was frustrating to me also, but it gets better. I knew this from getting the idea to read the series on this forum. Many people made it clear, TDTCB is a kellhus orgy.But, once through that what I think kept them going and all of us that enjoy TSA, is the mystery of the consult. And what in the hell is exactly kellhus's plan for the Great Ordeal. And so many more story arc's are very interesting. For me, Mimara and Akka. Can't wait to see what happens there.Also, I was just reading the appendix of TTT. It says that many believed Nau-Cayuti to be the son of Seswatha. Didn't Seswatha and Nau-Cayuti go to Golgoterrath together? I seen where someone had the theory that Mimara is actually Akka's daughter and their now headed towards Golgoterrath. Like these are just different characters of the first apocalypse. And it will all play out the same. I sure hope not. Also there wasn't Dunyain around the first time. So does anyone know for sure if Mimara is Akka's? And that's why the baby has the judging eye? Or is it because it will be stillborn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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