JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I actually thought they were going to cut the whole crucifixion scene. Kinda glad they didn't. And, I guess now it's up to Unsullied to decided. But the show reminded us via Dany that she was doing it because they killed the children. 163 children to be exact. And she's doing the same as retribution. Many might think she's getting as crazy as her father, some other will say "fuck yeah!". The show is showing the Targaryen banner behind her for one reason, and Barristan is already thinking is a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 I definitely agree that they're biased in her favor. I know a lot of people think our criticisms of Stannis' portrayal are unfounded, but seriously, they've definitely made a conscious decision to make her triumphs bigger and failures minimized. Whereas Stannis' moral failures are also simplified, but in such a way that makes him darker and cheap. I think that it's not unsubstantial that Barristan, who does seem to serve as a partial moral compass for her, raises objections to these executions though. Could be foreshadowing for her taking a darker turn in the coming episodes I hope.But why you keep your hope high? Daenerys sucks in all Slavers bay campaign, but 3 are her big "nasty" moments. Two of them highly whitewashed....Just wait until Ramsey does his 63 .... we will have all kind of nasty details in a big gore scene.. and no one will come here to say its ok because he is sending a message, and those Iron Born were rapers, mourders, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 dp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I actually thought they were going to cut the whole crucifixion scene. Kinda glad they didn't. And, I guess now it's up to Unsullied to decided. But the show reminded us via Dany that she was doing it because they killed the children. 163 children to be exact. And she's doing the same as retribution. Many might think she's getting as crazy as her father, some other will say "fuck yeah!". The show is showing the Targaryen banner behind her for one reason, and Barristan is already thinking is a bad idea. Except that Barristan never thinks it's a bad idea. He's behind her all the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelastactionhero Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 But why you keep your hope high? Daenerys sucks in all Slavers bay campaign, but 3 are her big "nasty" moments.Two of them highly whitewashed....Just wait until Ramsey does his 63 .... we will have all kind of nasty details in a big gore scene.. and no one will come here to say its ok because he is sending a message, and those Iron Born were rapers, mourders, etc.One was whitewashed, one omitted entirely. The wine sellers daughter is such a minor scene it will also likely be cut. Still, they can't avoid showing that the consequences of her revolutions aren't all sunshines and rainbows, seeing as her Dance of Dragons arc can't move forward otherwise. I don't have "high hopes" but I'm holding out marginal faith in the showrunners' abilities to give us a little of what we want with Stannis and a little of what they need to show with Dany to make her a full three dimensional character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Trell Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Bigger issue here is they did not show the Sack of Meereen. It looked like the slaves killed one master and opened the gates. No fires, no looting, no killing, and no rape. I don't see how Dany is going to match her storyline from here on out. She doesn't have doubts on the show. She doesn't have moments of weakness. Is she just going to yell at her court in valyrian for one and a half seasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar I Targaryen Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 He's behind her all the way Can't fault a guy for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I actually thought they were going to cut the whole crucifixion scene. Kinda glad they didn't. And, I guess now it's up to Unsullied to decided. But the show reminded us via Dany that she was doing it because they killed the children. 163 children to be exact. And she's doing the same as retribution. Many might think she's getting as crazy as her father, some other will say "fuck yeah!". The show is showing the Targaryen banner behind her for one reason, and Barristan is already thinking is a bad idea. YOU. HOW DARE YOU COME INTO THIS THREAD WITH LOGIC! :P I agree with this. Barristan's face. Barristan's face! He said more with his expression than he could ever say with words. His face says "Yes. Ive heard this before. Ive heard it from your father's lips." Hngggn <3 Dany does not come off looking amazing and rosy here. She looks good on the surface, but Barristan helps us understand the true meaning of this scene. As for the stuff that came before it, im cool with it too. Its pretty easy to get the idea that the slaves kicked the Masters' asses and captured a bunch of them. The "Kill The Masters" on the wall said more than a lot of gore had to say. This shit was good. Fuck the police. Im excited about Meereen now. Except that Barristan never thinks it's a bad idea. He's behind her all the way Please look harder on a rewatch. Hes very visibly not cool with her "Ill answer justice with justice" line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelastactionhero Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Barristan wouldn't raise an alternative if he was behind her decision 100%. Clearly he doesn't think the executions are advantageous, or totally morally just. She's starting to walk down a dangerous path, and he gets it, even if it's hard to feel bad for the assholes she's crucifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I will be anxious to see the people's opinions on Dany, once they see her sitting a throne in Mereen and putting on her attitude. My family that has not read the books are shocked at how she went from madly in love with Drogo, a slaving you know what and now she is some saint. I just laugh and say it gets worse with no promise of getting better for her, so enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 ^Yep. He's not liking what she has done. As there is no moral discussions in the show like in the books about the subject, Barristan is telling us "this is not right", while Dany is doing it for justice. Now, I can't remembe Jorah but I think he wasn't that happy either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinn-a-Bronn Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 It's not exactly a secret that the show runners are trying to make this appeal to the widest audience possible. They do that by dumbing the material down and removing a lot of the moral grey areas around popular characters. If they made her look more like the angsty, naive, bloodthirsty Targaryen teenager on a rampage that she actually is then some fans would get confused. It's also a little bit scary how many people ITT are 100% OK with some pretty extreme cruelty, as long as it's directed toward people they don't like. Like some others have said; they may have cleaned it up a LOT but I don't think you're supposed to walk away from the scene with a glowing opinion of Daenerys.TL;DR version: 1) dumb people hate thinking 2) ya'll crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegar I Targaryen Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Jorah probably didn't like it. He's gotta sell those slaves to somebody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Bean Corbray Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 YOU. HOW DARE YOU COME INTO THIS THREAD WITH LOGIC! :P I agree with this. Barristan's face. Barristan's face! He said more with his expression than he could ever say with words. His face says "Yes. Ive heard this before. Ive heard it from your father's lips." Hngggn <3 Dany does not come off looking amazing and rosy here. She looks good on the surface, but Barristan helps us understand the true meaning of this scene. As for the stuff that came before it, im cool with it too. Its pretty easy to get the idea that the slaves kicked the Masters' asses and captured a bunch of them. The "Kill The Masters" on the wall said more than a lot of gore had to say. This shit was good. Fuck the police. Im excited about Meereen now. Please look harder on a rewatch. Hes very visibly not cool with her "Ill answer justice with justice" line. Yus Yus, some of the best/most effective eyes-only communication/acting since the Michelle Fairley/Michael McElhatton exchange at the end of S3 E9. Loved Barristan's ".....oh shit. Oh Shit." moment. Of course it got overshadowed for me by later events but I definitely noticed that nice little bit of building for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelastactionhero Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 ^Yep. He's not liking what she has done. As there is no moral discussions in the show like in the books about the subject, Barristan is telling us "this is not right", while Dany is doing it for justice. Now, I can't remembe Jorah but I think he wasn't that happy either. Oddly enough, they're giving Dany the kinds of scenes I wish we were getting from Stannis. Instead of Davos, we get Barristan disapproving of her actions, but seeing that there are legitimate reasons for them. Whether it was just of Stannis to burn Alester for trying to sell his daughter to the Lannisters isn't one that's easily answered, nor is this decision to crucify 163 of the masters without a trial or investigation as to who bears the most responsibility for the murder of the young slaves. I just wish the nuance was more consistent across character arcs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 YOU. HOW DARE YOU COME INTO THIS THREAD WITH LOGIC! :P I agree with this. Barristan's face. Barristan's face! He said more with his expression than he could ever say with words. His face says "Yes. Ive heard this before. Ive heard it from your father's lips." Hngggn <3 Dany does not come off looking amazing and rosy here. She looks good on the surface, but Barristan helps us understand the true meaning of this scene. As for the stuff that came before it, im cool with it too. Its pretty easy to get the idea that the slaves kicked the Masters' asses and captured a bunch of them. The "Kill The Masters" on the wall said more than a lot of gore had to say. This shit was good. Fuck the police. Im excited about Meereen now. Please look harder on a rewatch. Hes very visibly not cool with her "Ill answer justice with justice" line. I meant in the books. He's supportive of her every decision and only says something if she asks his opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Lol on the complaint it was "rushed". They literally showed Great Masters being nailed to to crosses, what more do you want? The show has now shown her burn a rape victim alive, lock one of her hand maidens in a vault to die, used trickery to get her army, and crucified people on screen. Can we stop with the "whitewashing" nonsense now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Can we stop with the "whitewashing" nonsense now? It's because she don't get a tan. I envy her. My skin has like three different tones =( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Lol on the complaint it was "rushed". They literally showed Great Masters being nailed to to crosses, what more do you want?The show has now shown her burn a rape victim alive, lock one of her hand maidens in a vault to die, used trickery to get her army, and crucified people on screen. Can we stop with the "whitewashing" nonsense now?I don't think she's that whitewashed. She's Aegon with teats. She's generous to the people that bow to her and cruel to those who oppose her. A grey character like many others. ShowTyrion...now, that's whitewashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 I don't think she's that whitewashed. She's Aegon with teats. She's generous to the people that bow to her and cruel to those who oppose her. A grey character like many others. ShowTyrion...now, that's whitewashing.He is settled to kill a loving Shae. Not the book whore. That will change it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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