[Book Spoilers] Daenerys evil moment rushed. Runners look uncomfortable with it.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

Didn't Emilia get nominated for an emmy for her role as Daenerys?

Her agent paid the required fee to have her added to the nomination list.

[Ingelheim]

IMO they are showing now her dark side.

[Bayard]

I wouldn't worry. They will show a darker side to her. Will it be about her character, or about the problem she faces? that's the question. But they will show something. The 163 and Barristan's view on it are the first step. If you don't believe me, just look at their youtube channel, they have a video dedicated to this: mercy or justice. There is no avoiding it, she needs to have huge problems to accept Hizadahr, she will lock her dragons and that can't be forgiven. Than Drogon takes her away and there's nothing she can do about it. All these are points agains Danerys, important enough to not change them. What I am curious is how they are going to portray them.

[Silverin]

How many anti-Dany threads do you need to start every month? 10?

Yeah, she crucified the monsters. Good for her. She should've crucified more of them.

Why is it anti-Dany to point out how collective punishment is not justice?

Did you know who did something similar? The Soviets, when they occupied the various Eastern European contries at the end of World War 2, they ordered the nazis to be punished and based on the casualities they suffered, they basically "ordered" the number. The problem was that in the given time they couldn't find enough war criminals and they didn't have time to do investigations, so they filled up the remaining spots with random citizens so that they could show the "Father"'s justice. As someone from such a country that is no justice to me.

I have no tears for the slave maesters who killed the children. I personally think GRRM also thought, oh they surely all guilty, no such nuance there.

But it is alarming that this is what Dany calls justice, no investigation at all, if people seem guilty by association they are guilty in her eyes.

[Natasi]

Confused why viewers would cheer Arya on with her eye for an eye violence in the first episode this season and are consistently looking forward to her taking revenge for the whole Stark family. Where are the trials for those men? Why insist Dany should have trials for slave masters who crucify children to make a point, but no one thinks Arya should do the same?

Here's another way to look at it. There are a lot of Dany haters since ADWD. The show has changed a lot already from the books. Is it not okay to change Dany's story along with those other changes, to improve upon a clumsy book storyline? I would think Dany haters would be happy with that, to change her a little where they weren't so bored with her character. But I guess the hate runs too deep.

[salmonsnake]

Yeah, I really don't understand why the showrunners are expected to hold the viewer's hand in displaying Dany's flaws: people's attitudes vary, every unsullied I know already sees the touch of folly and cruelty behind the saviour's surface. If they are blind to it, well, I'm not sure why the writers have a duty to cater to them.

I think when we lack the imagery about the dead Targaryens, the show's over-the-top triumphalism with regard to Dany restores some of their manic, proud glory. If you don't see that depiction as a cunning way to depict a flawed leader, you might not have the most critical eyes. And the one-sided depiction of Tyrion will be a cunning betrayal as well, when he climbs the stairs to the Hand's chambers.

[Daenerys Targaryen's slave]

I'm sure most people "get" what Dany is all about. But the quality of her scenes are not that great if they are not willing to show the fruits of her labor.

[David Selig]

Why is it anti-Dany to point out how collective punishment is not justice?

Is that what OP is about? Seems to me it's whining that the scene didn't get more screen time and how it was supposedly a huge moment in the books, even though it is shown even more briefly there, the crucifixions themselves happen "offscreen" in the novel and the whole incident got like 10 lines in total.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

The thing is, in the books the crucifixions are mentioned very briefly:

“I want your leaders,” Dany told them. “Give them up, and the rest of you shall be spared.”
“How many?” one old woman had asked, sobbing. “How many must you have to spare us?”
“One hundred and sixty-three,” she answered.
She had them nailed to wooden posts around the plaza, each man pointing at the next. The anger was fierce and hot inside her when she gave the command; it made her feel like an avenging dragon. But later, when she passed the men dying on the posts, when she heard their moans and smelled their bowels and blood . . . Dany put the glass aside, frowning. It was just. It was. I did it for the children.

And that's all to it. One short paragraph total. If anything, the show's depiction of them is one, longer, and two, shows Dany in darker, less favorable light: in the books, she herself has second thoughts, in the show Barristan advised her on mercy and she rejected it. How on the Earth is that "whitewashing"?

they made the "sack" of mareen seem like one guy died during it. where was all the rape, plunder and pillaging that dany ended up blanket pardoning?

Blanket pardoning? What are you talking about?
She was pleased. Meereen had been sacked savagely, as new-fallen cities always were, but Dany was determined that should end now that the city was hers. She had decreed that murderers were to be hanged, that looters were to lose a hand, and rapists their manhood. Eight killers swung from the walls, and the Unsullied had filled a bushel basket with bloody hands and soft red worms, but Meereen was calm again.

Seriously, what blanket pardoning?

[Thelastactionhero]

Confused why viewers would cheer Arya on with her eye for an eye violence in the first episode this season and are consistently looking forward to her taking revenge for the whole Stark family. Where are the trials for those men? Why insist Dany should have trials for slave masters who crucify children to make a point, but no one thinks Arya should do the same?

Here's another way to look at it. There are a lot of Dany haters since ADWD. The show has changed a lot already from the books. Is it not okay to change Dany's story along with those other changes, to improve upon a clumsy book storyline? I would think Dany haters would be happy with that, to change her a little where they weren't so bored with her character. But I guess the hate runs too deep.

If you think making her virtually immaculate is the way to salvage a "clusmy" book storyline, I have to strongly disagree with you. Dany as a white savior in the television series makes me extremely uncomfortable, especially the last scene of the "Mhysa" episode where she's hoisted onto the shoulders of a crowd of thankful minorities. We see very little violence in these revolutions, (with the exception of the slavers getting murked), nor do we see her slaughtering every male wearing a tokar over the age of 12 in Astapor. In fact, because of the way it was shot and due to how quickly this uprising occured, we actually can't connect with the realistic brutality that is supposed to constitute these revolutions she's leading. If anything, her arc is simplified and cheapened, unlike the books, where we come to understand the problems of the "white savior complex" through vaguely hinted allusions to colonial occupation.

[King Zee]

Man, people thought that was a whitewashed scene ? I think some of you guys are just looking for things to complain about. Watching 163 people get crucified with the evil red and black flag flies over head is not what I call white washing.

[MoIaF]

The thing is, in the books the crucifixions are mentioned very briefly:

And that's all to it. One short paragraph total. If anything, the show's depiction of them is one, longer, and two, shows Dany in darker, less favorable light: in the books, she herself has second thoughts, in the show Barristan advised her on mercy and she rejected it. How on the Earth is that "whitewashing"?

Blanket pardoning? What are you talking about?

She was pleased. Meereen had been sacked savagely, as new-fallen cities always were, but Dany was determined that should end now that the city was hers. She had decreed that murderers were to be hanged, that looters were to lose a hand, and rapists their manhood. Eight killers swung from the walls, and the Unsullied had filled a bushel basket with bloody hands and soft red worms, but Meereen was calm again.

Seriously, what blanket pardoning?

Thank you for this - everyone always forgets it.

[Thelastactionhero]

The thing is, in the books the crucifixions are mentioned very briefly:

And that's all to it. One short paragraph total. If anything, the show's depiction of them is one, longer, and two, shows Dany in darker, less favorable light: in the books, she herself has second thoughts, in the show Barristan advised her on mercy and she rejected it. How on the Earth is that "whitewashing"?

Blanket pardoning? What are you talking about?

She was pleased. Meereen had been sacked savagely, as new-fallen cities always were, but Dany was determined that should end now that the city was hers. She had decreed that murderers were to be hanged, that looters were to lose a hand, and rapists their manhood. Eight killers swung from the walls, and the Unsullied had filled a bushel basket with bloody hands and soft red worms, but Meereen was calm again.

Seriously, what blanket pardoning?

My question is, where the hell was the sacking? Where was all the rape, murder, and violence that comes with taking a city? The whitewashing comes from showing these revolutions in such an unbelievable fashion, one that solidifies her as an irreproachable messiah figure.

[Tywin's bastard]

The thing is, in the books the crucifixions are mentioned very briefly:

And that's all to it. One short paragraph total. If anything, the show's depiction of them is one, longer, and two, shows Dany in darker, less favorable light: in the books, she herself has second thoughts, in the show Barristan advised her on mercy and she rejected it. How on the Earth is that "whitewashing"?

Blanket pardoning? What are you talking about?

She was pleased. Meereen had been sacked savagely, as new-fallen cities always were, but Dany was determined that should end now that the city was hers. She had decreed that murderers were to be hanged, that looters were to lose a hand, and rapists their manhood. Eight killers swung from the walls, and the Unsullied had filled a bushel basket with bloody hands and soft red worms, but Meereen was calm again.

Seriously, what blanket pardoning?

Good post. For a rabid fan base there are sure a lot of people that don't know the material.

[Gregor's Nancy Boy]

Yeah, I found it to be a little strange that they didn't make that scene more cruel than they did. Especially since they created a scenario where Jaime brutally murders his own cousin and becomes a kinslayer just because they felt like it. They like to pick favorites.

[salmonsnake]

My question is, where the hell was the sacking? Where was all the rape, murder, and violence that comes with taking a city? The whitewashing comes from showing these revolutions in such an unbelievable fashion, one that solidifies her as an irreproachable messiah figure.

The reproach you feel when something is presented to you as irreproachable is nonetheless reproach. If you trust your own judgment and supplement the picture, you lose the necessity to have all fictional expression be in agreement with you. It saves you from a lot of headache. I don't know how it's possible to read the news and feel like you need to witness the horror of every war. Give more credit to yourself, if something is in conflict with your ethics, the dissonance that follows is what is fruitful, not the original stimulus. It's all about digestion

[TheRedPriest]

The scene was awesome because it shows something we can only experience with Dany's POV.

Barristan gives her sound advice, just like the "Forgive people who bend the knee" speech. Its a perfectly good political move that would bring only peace in the long term, and Dany quickly shrugs Barristan's advice (a guy that lived closely to a billion kings, he KNOWS the shit), with an awnser that is both motivated by her bloodlust and her inability to take any action that doesn't involve blood and murder and suffering. That's a trait we get to see in the books, that we, book readers finally got to see (in a show that is heavily Dany-friendly).

Good to show the non-bookies what a blood crazed tyrant is Daenerys Targaryen

[C0bR]

The thing is, in the books the crucifixions are mentioned very briefly:

And that's all to it. One short paragraph total. If anything, the show's depiction of them is one, longer, and two, shows Dany in darker, less favorable light: in the books, she herself has second thoughts, in the show Barristan advised her on mercy and she rejected it. How on the Earth is that "whitewashing"?

Blanket pardoning? What are you talking about?

She was pleased. Meereen had been sacked savagely, as new-fallen cities always were, but Dany was determined that should end now that the city was hers. She had decreed that murderers were to be hanged, that looters were to lose a hand, and rapists their manhood. Eight killers swung from the walls, and the Unsullied had filled a bushel basket with bloody hands and soft red worms, but Meereen was calm again.

Seriously, what blanket pardoning?

That is happens only after she reinstalls the law quite some time after entering the city. Every action before that during the sack was pardoned.

[Dany's Golden Fleece]

The scene was awesome because it shows something we can only experience with Dany's POV.

Barristan gives her sound advice, just like the "Forgive people who bend the knee" speech. Its a perfectly good political move that would bring only peace in the long term, and Dany quickly shrugs Barristan's advice (a guy that lived closely to a billion kings, he KNOWS the shit), with an awnser that is both motivated by her bloodlust and her inability to take any action that doesn't involve blood and murder and suffering. That's a trait we get to see in the books, that we, book readers finally got to see (in a show that is heavily Dany-friendly).

Good to show the non-bookies what a blood crazed tyrant is Daenerys Targaryen

Any evidence that she enjoys violence would be greatly appreciated at this point in time. Would a bloodlust and blood crazed tyrant hate gladiator combat in the Mereenese Pits like Dany did? Wouldn't she have loved the blood of the combat?

This is why people get fed up at Dany haters. They claim something whereas the text states different, its like they see only what they want to see.

[David Selig]

The scene was awesome because it shows something we can only experience with Dany's POV.

Barristan gives her sound advice, just like the "Forgive people who bend the knee" speech. Its a perfectly good political move that would bring only peace in the long term, and Dany quickly shrugs Barristan's advice (a guy that lived closely to a billion kings, he KNOWS the shit), with an awnser that is both motivated by her bloodlust and her inability to take any action that doesn't involve blood and murder and suffering. That's a trait we get to see in the books, that we, book readers finally got to see (in a show that is heavily Dany-friendly).

Good to show the non-bookies what a blood crazed tyrant is Daenerys Targaryen

Barristan knows his shit? LOL, the guy is a glorified bodyguard (of one crazy dude and one idiot, so it's not like he could learn anything from them about politics and governing) without a clue about anything else.