north of the wall Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 So according to the book and show Olenna was meant to be betrothed to a Targaryen (but Wiki doesn't say who) and after I did some searching the only Targ in her age bracket I can find is the Mad King Aerys. Is there some distant cousins with the same last name? Or is it maybe his brother Duncan? I can't see how it would have been Aerys since he had to marry his sister due to the prophecy.Anyone have any ideas who it would have been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I remember Apple Martini once theorized about Duncan the Small being her prince... I wouldn't say that Aerys is of the right age, more likely his father's generation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingZero Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I was about to mock you being curious and about something seemingly unimportant, but then I saw your profile pic of Val and my heart melted.. I think it was a brother of Jaehaerys II (he had a younger brother (unknown name)) or possibly a cousin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I remember Apple Martini once theorized about Duncan the Small being her prince... I wouldn't say that Aerys is of the right age, more likely his father's generation... :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Olenna was born at some point between 231 AC and 239 AC, based on her being in her sixties in 299 AC. For the sake of averages, let's say 235 AC. Aerys II was born in 243 AC, which would place the birth of Jaehaerys II probably at some point in the mid-220s, and the birth of Duncan earlier than that. The unnamed third son of Aegon V would have been born at some later date, which might make him the most obvious candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I agree the youngest of Egg's is the most likely from Egg's sons. Other than that, perhaps a son of Aerion's son? Maybe a son or grandson of Rhaegel? Perhaps John the Fiddler had a son or grandson that went by Targaryen? I know they took Blackfyre as a surname, but Daemon was legitimized and made a Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I think it was either Duncan the Small or Aegon V's other, as-yet-unknown son, and I lean toward Duncan. They're really the only two that fit the timeline and the logistics (i.e. no one is wasting time making a marriage for Brightflame's politically useless kid). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Depends if you believe her story that she spurned him or not. I totally believe she would have spurned the Brightflame kid. I doubt she would have spurned Duncan, but she may be covering up her embarrassment by lying about it since he spurned her hardcore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I doubt she would have spurned Duncan, but she may be covering up her embarrassment by lying about it since he spurned her hardcore. I think that's exactly what it is. What's the Redwyne sigil? Grapes. As in, sour grapes. It also easily explains why the Queen of Thorns nickname is actually an insult, or at least explains why she hates it. If she had been pledged to Duncan, she'd've been queen of Westeros. Instead he goes for Jenny of Oldstones and she's stuck marrying a Tyrell; she's not the queen of Westeros, but the Queen of (Rose) Thorns instead. It also explains her motivation for making Margaery queen, helping her granddaughter achieve what she couldn't, and can also explain why Margaery's marriages all occur at a pretty brisk pace, i.e. it could have been thanks to a long engagement that Olenna lost out on Duncan. So while either Duncan or the unnamed third son are both the major contenders, I think Duncan makes the most sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laniki Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Depends if you believe her story that she spurned him or not. I totally believe she would have spurned the Brightflame kid. I doubt she would have spurned Duncan, but she may be covering up her embarrassment by lying about it since he spurned her hardcore. I :agree: There's one else alive to dispute her story. Being a prickly lady from the House of the Rose may not be the only reason she's known as the "Queen of Thorns." Being betrothed and spurned by a royal heir may also have had something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
north of the wall Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 I was about to mock you being curious and about something seemingly unimportant, but then I saw your profile pic of Val and my heart melted.. Thank you :) I was thinking of changing it but now I wont. Plus all the important things have been discussed to death and I'm not original enough to think of theories on my own. Lol I agree the youngest of Egg's is the most likely from Egg's sons. Other than that, perhaps a son of Aerion's son? Maybe a son or grandson of Rhaegel? Perhaps John the Fiddler had a son or grandson that went by Targaryen? I know they took Blackfyre as a surname, but Daemon was legitimized and made a Targaryen. Larger list than I'd thought. Thankyou It seems Duncan the small may be the most popular answer :) Depends if you believe her story that she spurned him or not. I totally believe she would have spurned the Brightflame kid. I doubt she would have spurned Duncan, but she may be covering up her embarrassment by lying about it since he spurned her hardcore. Interesting take on it. I hadn't thought about that actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moondancer Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Ran hinted that Olenna wasn't entirely sincere in her conversation with Sansa. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denam_Pavel Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I agree the youngest of Egg's is the most likely from Egg's sons. Other than that, perhaps a son of Aerion's son? Maybe a son or grandson of Rhaegel? Perhaps John the Fiddler had a son or grandson that went by Targaryen? I know they took Blackfyre as a surname, but Daemon was legitimized and made a Targaryen.Rhaegel and his sons were never mentioned as an option during the succession dispute after Maekar died and they would've comme before Maekar himself in the succession too. More likely Rhaegel is the mad Targ princeling that took up a monkey aftter his sons death that Ser Axell mentioned. And Daemon was not legitimized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Ran hinted that Olenna wasn't entirely sincere in her conversation with Sansa. :) You got a link to that? Sometimes I think someone needs to start a "So Spake Ran" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Rhaegel and his sons were never mentioned as an option during the succession dispute after Maekar died and they would've comme before Maekar himself in the succession too. More likely Rhaegel is the mad Targ princeling that took up a monkey aftter his sons death that Ser Axell mentioned. And Daemon was not legitimized. It remains to be seen why Maekar rather than Rhaegel or one of his sons succeeded Aerys I. However, I see no reason why Rhaegel or his sons would have been an option, or at least more than a distant option, after Maekar I died. By that point Rhaegel and his sons had already been passed over by Maekar, and Maekar had descendants of his own to be considered. At first "they" (whoever "they" are) attempted to crown Maekar's oldest living son, Aemon. After he refused, the Great Council considered the "feeble witted" daughter of Maekar's deceased oldest son (Daeron), the infant son of Maekar's deceased second oldest son (Aerion), and Maekar's youngest, but very much adult, son (Aegon V). It doesn't appear that anyone outside Maekar's own descendants were considered as an option, Rhaegel and his sons or otherwise. And Aerys IV legitimized Daemon and his other bastards on his deathbed in 184 AC. I am pretty sure Daemon II/John the Fiddler was not born prior to that. Obviously Daemon chose to call himself and his family Blackfyre a decade or so later, but I see no reason why Daemon II or a son in 'captivity' down the line couldn't have gone by Targaryen. I was not arguing that these are likely possibilities. I was only listing Targaryen males that could have possibly had sons or sons of sonscapable of being called Targaryens. IMO it is a two man race between Prince Duncan and the unnamed youngest son of Aegon V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 You got a link to that? Sometimes I think someone needs to start a "So Spake Ran" thread. Sounds like a good idea. I really appreciate Ran's posts, even when he is understandably vague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moondancer Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 You got a link to that? Sometimes I think someone needs to start a "So Spake Ran" thread.I'll send a PM to Lord Varys, I think Ran was replying to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Pedant Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I think that's exactly what it is. What's the Redwyne sigil? Grapes. As in, sour grapes. It also easily explains why the Queen of Thorns nickname is actually an insult, or at least explains why she hates it. If she had been pledged to Duncan, she'd've been queen of Westeros. Instead he goes for Jenny of Oldstones and she's stuck marrying a Tyrell; she's not the queen of Westeros, but the Queen of (Rose) Thorns instead. It also explains her motivation for making Margaery queen, helping her granddaughter achieve what she couldn't, and can also explain why Margaery's marriages all occur at a pretty brisk pace, i.e. it could have been thanks to a long engagement that Olenna lost out on Duncan. So while either Duncan or the unnamed third son are both the major contenders, I think Duncan makes the most sense. Those are very persuasive arguments. I'm convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weirwoods Eyes Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Rhaegel and his sons were never mentioned as an option during the succession dispute after Maekar died and they would've comme before Maekar himself in the succession too. More likely Rhaegel is the mad Targ princeling that took up a monkey aftter his sons death that Ser Axell mentioned. And Daemon was not legitimized. Sorry would you mind explaining this line, I've seen reference to a monkey princling a few times now but can not place it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faydra Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I believe that she wanted to marry one of Aegon's kids. Anyway, if Aerys spurned that one as well, I'm going to raise him a statue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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