Dishrack Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Cersei has no inkling of what is a good ruler. She is the female equivalent of Viserys, except her family wasn't overthrown when she was a child. She was born into riches, believes the world owes her everything, and she literally tries to physically, psychologically, and emotionally abuse EVERYONE beneath her status, even her own family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 While Robert was king, Cersei was far worse queen than Robert was king and her actions caused the civil war that ravaged the kingdom and even killed the king and destroyed Westeros stability. When she started rulling in her own right, she continued her abusive megalomaniac, paranoid and stupid actions that made her isolated and hated, she appointed grossly inadequate men in her small council often on purporse and she took some pretty horrible decisions such as the rearming of the faith, the conspiracy against margaery, not paying the Iron Bank. Really Cersei is Joffrey V2, somewhat better but still horrible. While others are merely incompetent she is also spiteful, abusive, grossly immoral megalomaniac who is also paranoid and with a complex of laws and morality not applying to her. This combine to make her someone who due to her own personality for no reason that benefits anyone (not even herself in truth) would take highly disastrous actions such as the incest. It depends on how you define "worse ruler". If you mean who himself was a worse ruler, it would be Robert. Cersei is completely incompentent and delusional, but at least she has some sort of inkling on what is good ruling and is intrested in the political intrigue. Robert is a born warrior, not suited whatsoever for anything remotely related to politics. On the other hand, if you're asking whose rule was worse, it is Cersei's. Robert was a failure, but he had Jon Arryn backing him up and during his reign, the Seven Kingdoms were at peace. He did leave the crown in debt, but at least he avoided any rebellions and any political antagonisms. Cersei just ruined everything. With her as a ruler, the royal house had never been weaker and more unstable. She went back and forth with choosing Hands, condemned herself and endangered her son's life by imprisoning Margaery. She was absolutely arrogant and miscalculating, and only made political decisions that suited her instead of the realm. Robert has more of an inkling on what is good rulling. Good rulling especially for a king is delegation. Is judge of character (Robert not the best but better). Is not being completly hated and completly abusive. Or taking ridiculous decisions. Robert was not a good king but he was quite better than Cersei at rulling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiraloftheDothrakiSea Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Don't even need to get into the reasons. It's clearly Cersei. Just wanna say that Robert himself even said that the only reason he stuck around for so long as king and didn't just go to Essos to become a sellsword was because he feared what would happen under Cersei and Joffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 However, the debt is presented as fact. Feasts, tournaments and lavish gifts might be part of it, but there appears to be a lot of graft going on as well. Well when Little Finger is your banker, this tends to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alayne's Shadow. Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I think there's too many who blame Cersei for Robert's failure. Robert's lack of responsibility and carelessness is as much a reason for TWO5K as Cersei's affair with Jaime. This is the man that couldn't grasp the basics of Politics. Cersei is obviously worse, but she did try. Robert never did. What's better, to try and fail or to never try at all? That said, Robert's biggest quality were his closest allies, Jon Arryn and Ned Stark. Cersei had denied help from her close allies in her delusion that she's the best ruler that ever walked on the Seven Kingdoms. At least Robert knew his limitations. But he was also the same man that condoned the deaths of Elia and the Targaryen children. Tough one. The worst thing that happened to Westeros was Summerhall, truly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofs Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 There is no question here - obviously Cersei. Robert could not rule and did not rule but left ruling to those who could. Cersei was as incompetent if not more but insisted on ruling herself. In result she did not even manage to stay in power for year or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Cersei. No question. Robert when it comes to Cersei was a great ruler. I think there's too many who blame Cersei for Robert's failure. Robert's lack of responsibility and carelessness is as much a reason for TWO5K as Cersei's affair with Jaime. This is the man that couldn't grasp the basics of Politics. Cersei is obviously worse, but she did try. Robert never did. What's better, to try and fail or to never try at all?Ι hope that you are aware that you make no sense at all. How Robert could had guess what would happen after his death? That is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share Posted June 30, 2014 Cersei has no inkling of what is a good ruler. She is the female equivalent of Viserys, except her family wasn't overthrown when she was a child. She was born into riches, believes the world owes her everything, and she literally tries to physically, psychologically, and emotionally abuse EVERYONE beneath her status, even her own family. Well ouch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Cersei is obviously worse, but she did try. Robert never did. What's better, to try and fail or to never try at all? Cersei willingly and actively makes bad decisions for petty reasons, and appoints weak and incompetent advisers because they won't argue with her.When it comes to something like ruling, trying and failing can often be much worse than not really trying at all (but letting someone able and willing do it for you). Add in megalomania, paranoia and a sadistic twist, and the contest is so lopsided it's not even funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Lord's Daughter Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Cersei willingly and actively makes bad decisions for petty reasons, and appoints weak and incompetent advisers because they won't argue with her.When it comes to something like ruling, trying and failing can often be much worse than not really trying at all (but letting someone able and willing do it for you). Add in megalomania, paranoia and a sadistic twist, and the contest is so lopsided it's not even funny. Exactly. Compared to Cersei, Robert was a great king. At least he had the sense to realize he was an incompetent king and leave the actual ruling to a man who wasn't, leading to 15 years of relative prosperity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mb2518 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Cersei is a much worse ruler than Robert. The Tyrell alliance is hanging by a thread thanks to her. Robert kept the peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 And this is why Robert was the worst.Almost his whole counsel/court was working against him. He let the Lannisters to close to the Iron Throne, he gave them too much power and turned his head from wrong doings.Robert's reign did caused TWot5Ks, that's why he's worst than Cersei. Except Jon Arryn, Stannis, Renly, Barristan and later Ned. But yeah, the whole court. Cersei was much worse. Like LF said, she is a pawn who thinks she's a player. Where Robert knew he was bad at politics, and as such hires more competent men, Cersei thinks she's good at politics, and as such hires incompetent men. That distinction made Cersei destroy herself in less than a year when after 15 years King Bob's rule was still going strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilrob6 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Except Jon Arryn, Stannis, Renly, Barristan and later Ned. But yeah, the whole court. Cersei was much worse. Like LF said, she is a pawn who thinks she's a player. Where Robert knew he was bad at politics, and as such hires more competent men, Cersei thinks she's good at politics, and as such hires incompetent men. That distinction made Cersei destroy herself in less than a year when after 15 years King Bob's rule was still going strong. :agree: ..with most of this. Only I don't think Roberts rule was still going strong after Jon Arryn died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Cersei was much worse. Robert at least had the good sense to appoint smart, competent people and Ned to positions of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Cersei easy, the realm was good under Robert, save for Baelish stealing, which was really Robert's and Jon's fault for not seeing how the guy is making money yet somehow pushes the crown in thru debt then when it backed wars. Not sayin anything bad of Jon Arryn, but he really shouldn't have brought in a guy who only separated by others for banging his wife. Also Cersei being Cersei helped to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Which ruler was a bigger failure: Robert as King or Cersei as the regent? Cersei. Her own brief period of "rule" was a failure, mostly due to her own megalomania, and she was the #1 cause of Robert's failure as well. She cuckolded him, drove away his better councillors and surrounded him with treacherous scum. No, he did not have to give in to any of that, but she made his life a toxic hell, to the point where he'd do anything (even terrible things) just to keep her from haranguing him. Remember what Oberyn said about having scorpions vs. Cersei in your bed? If only Robert heard that advice before he married her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7th-key Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Her own brief period of "rule" was a failure, mostly due to her own megalomania, and she was the #1 cause of Robert's failure as well. She cuckolded him, drove away his better councillors and surrounded him with treacherous scum. Who did she drive away? I thought Varys and Pycelle came over from Aerys' time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Who did she drive away? I thought Varys and Pycelle came over from Aerys' time. Drove away is a bit generous of a word, but she did let Jon Arryn die (via Pycelle) and alienated Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I think a ruler who passively neglects the realm, like Robert did is much preferable to a ruler who actively, continuously destroys it by poor decision making like Cersei. Under Robert, there was general peace and prosperity, but his neglect allowed a lot of negative elements to gain a foothold, most notably his traitorous wife and her family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7th-key Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Drove away is a bit generous of a word, but she did let Jon Arryn die (via Pycelle) and alienated Stannis. But Lysa poisoned him. And this is from wiki: Although Cersei had not given him explicit orders in this regard and was not even in King's Landing at the time, Pycelle assumed responsibility for the treatment and thereby assured that Jon Arryn died, despite the efforts by Maester Colemon to save him.[12] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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