Laughing Storm Reborn Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 George can easily make the kids be robert´s after all (longshot i know), "the seed is strong" can be easily discarded, never a child had golden hair between lannisters and baratheons... well it´s always never until the first one :)Joffrey could easily be robert´s, his behavior is a flaw in education not on incest, he´s very tall for his age (i know jaime is tall but he was average tall, like myself 6 foot 2, bob´s height was one of his famous characteristics physically, like joff)... he isn´t like bob at all in interests and attitude, well... i´m not like my father at all aswell, joff could have been a male cersei with bob´s body minus the hair, it´s plausible...The kids are almost for sure jaime´s, but i´m just saying grrm could do it and still be acceptable, and FUNNY AS HELL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 George can easily make the kids be robert´s after all (longshot i know), "the seed is strong" can be easily discarded, never a child had golden hair between lannisters and baratheons... well it´s always never until the first one :) Joffrey could easily be robert´s, his behavior is a flaw in education not on incest, he´s very tall for his age (i know jaime is tall but he was average tall, like myself 6 foot 2, bob´s height was one of his famous characteristics physically, like joff)... he isn´t like bob at all in interests and attitude, well... i´m not like my father at all aswell, joff could have been a male cersei with bob´s body minus the hair, it´s plausible... The kids are almost for sure jaime´s, but i´m just saying grrm could do it and still be acceptable, and FUNNY AS HELL Not going to happen. Cersei said herself that the kids are from Jamie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Not going to happen. Cersei said herself that the kids are from Jamie. yes cersei said it, that´s why i said almost for sure they´re jaime´s, but she´s not the most reliable character in the story... she says she was infatuaded enough by bob in the wedding day and then after the lyanna whispering the love was gone, but since robert died, it´s robert this and robert that... the kettleblacks look fairly simimilar to someone also... well but that´s a personal theory of mine I know about the moon tea and all that :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I'm fairly sure Cersei knows enough about the, shall we say.. practicalities of getting pregnant that she would know whether there was the remotest chance the kids were Roberts - it's possible she can't exclude Joffrey categorically, but it seems that in the later years of their marriage, they had coitus so rarely that she would know - she does mention making sure to "finish him off" in other ways whenever possible. Anyway, the kids are Cersei and Jaime's, there really isn't more to that story. But if it amuses someone to entertain the possibility of it not being the case, who am I to stop them :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 yes cersei said it, that´s why i said almost for sure they´re jaime´s, but she´s not the most reliable character in the story... she says she was infatuaded enough by bob in the wedding day and then after the lyanna whispering the love was gone, but since robert died, it´s robert this and robert that...the kettleblacks look fairly simimilar to someone also... well but that´s a personal theory of mineI know about the moon tea and all that :)Book Cersei was never infatuated with Robert, or even particularly attracted to him. That's show Cersei. And she knows for sure the kids are Jaime's, because she had for years used Robert's drunkenness to make sure he didn't get anywhere near her vagina, giving him handjobs and blowjobs instead. The one time she got pregnant by Robert, she had an abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 (1)Book Cersei was never infatuated with Robert, or even particularly attracted to him. That's show Cersei.And she knows for sure the kids are Jaime's, because she had for years used Robert's drunkenness to make sure he didn't get anywhere near her vagina, (2) giving him handjobs and blowjobs instead. The one time she got pregnant by Robert, she had an abortion. (1). Yeah I felt this way too, but since I saw the show first and read the books after, I wasn't sure. (2) Are you sure about this? Iirc she said that he most of the times was too drunk to do anything.. I don't remember her saying this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (1). Yeah I felt this way too, but since I saw the show first and read the books after, I wasn't sure. (2) Are you sure about this? Iirc she said that he most of the times was too drunk to do anything.. I don't remember her saying this.. This was in one of Cersei's POVs when she was thinking about Robert. There's not much ambiguity here: "Ten thousand of your children perished in my palm, Your Grace. Whilst you snored, I would lick your sons off my face and fingers one by one, all pale sticky princes. You claimed your rights, my lord, but in the darkness I would eat your heirs" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 This was in one of Cersei's POVs when she was thinking about Robert. There's not much ambiguity here: "Ten thousand of your children perished in my palm, Your Grace. Whilst you snored, I would lick your sons off my face and fingers one by one, all pale sticky princes. You claimed your rights, my lord, but in the darkness I would eat your heirs" Yeah I've read it in my native language, not sure how well that was translated. Anyway, that's quite clear indeed. Edit: Tnxs for the quote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetgirl205 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Arryan probably read that huge book for fun about all the characteristics of the noble houses. He seems like a sort of boring guy, but smart. He knew Robert well enough that he at least saw a few of his bastards. Joffery, Myrcella, and Tommen were all blonde.He must have noticed Cersie was very fond of her brother. He was probably the only male besides Robert she was ever alone with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielWilson Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Stannis told him. I think Stannis just suspected on his own through observation and I don't think he liked Cersei and Jaime so he might be looking for some fault, as well as rumors of his own child being illegitimate might have put it on his mind. The book Arryn read states every Baratheon had black hair before, no matter who the mother was, I think they would take that serious in Westeros, as grounds for suspicion.Being 'the first' Baratheons without black hair (apart from the Targaryan exception), 3 times in a row, would be highly unlikely. Especially when compared to Roberts other children who are the spitting image of him.With Varys lurking in the walls of the castle, I don't doubt he knew about the twins, but I don't think he told.LF might have helped in locating Roberts other children, like he did with Eddard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Stannis told him. i think Mel put him on to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielWilson Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 i think Mel put him on to it Sounds plausible, though she usually sees the future rather than the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 i think Mel put him on to it He met Mel literally years after he started the investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Logically I'd guess that Varys, probably through an alias, alerted either Jon or Stannis to it as (F)Aegon was coming of age and it was time to get the ball rolling on destabilizing the kingdom. I really doubt that one day either of the two suddenly came to the conclusion, but were nudged in the right direction. Haven't read the thread but my money would be on Varys tipping Jon Arryn off to keep things de-stabilized. It could certainly have been Littlefinger but I think he simply took advantage of the ensuing chaos, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Don´t get me wrong, i think the kids are jaime´s but being cersei grrm could change it and not be bad writing, it would be poor writing but not a grievous mistake...Regarding the cersei didn´t love robert ever, i know that book cersei never expressed what show cersei did but i´m going to wait until the last book...I find it strange the amount of times book cersei thinks of robert after his death, she won, she didn´t give him true born children and caused his death and STILL thinks about robert for this or that reason, i don´t know, i find it strange folks :) but that´s me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxWolfox Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Don´t get me wrong, i think the kids are jaime´s but being cersei grrm could change it and not be bad writing, it would be poor writing but not a grievous mistake... Regarding the cersei didn´t love robert ever, i know that book cersei never expressed what show cersei did but i´m going to wait until the last book... I find it strange the amount of times book cersei thinks of robert after his death, she won, she didn´t give him true born children and caused his death and STILL thinks about robert for this or that reason, i don´t know, i find it strange folks :) but that´s me Maggy the Frog's prophecy could be considered a major hint to her children's father: Cersei: Will the king and I have children? Maggy: Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Maggy the Frog's prophecy could be considered a major hint to her children's father: Cersei: Will the king and I have children? Maggy: Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you. there´s still an amount of robert´s children we don´t know, and may never know... i still give 98% chance jaime is the father, it´s too great a catalyst to change poorly, but you never know with george :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Renly didnt know. He congratulates Stannis on the 'story' he came up with. He doesn't warn Ned to attack or flee, but that they should imprison the Royal family(something that angers Ned) so they can control the Kingdom through Joffrey. Ned and Renly are about to be kicked off the Small Council and their influence to the King diminished but we know that Neds postion as Lord of the North was not in danger at that point and presumably nor is Renlys. There's a reason why Renly is talking about how the Lannisters are merciless immediately followed by Ned wondering what would happen if Cersei fights rathers than flees. They might not have been on the same page, but they are clearly both thinking about mercy/violence. Keeping a political position is not mercy. It's a favor and Renly would not it as such. Clearly he thinks that Cersei means to have him killed, either for the same reason she wanted Robert dead or that he was trying to get Robert to divorce Cersei and marry Margaery. Both Ned and Renly are talking about their safety, not their positions at court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 He doesn't warn Ned to attack or flee, but that they should imprison the Royal family(something that angers Ned) so they can control the Kingdom through Joffrey. Ned and Renly are about to be kicked off the Small Council and their influence to the King diminished but we know that Neds postion as Lord of the North was not in danger at that point and presumably nor is Renlys. Renly explicitly says he considers Cersei a threat to both him and Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnFit Finlay Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Varys has disguises and agents in his employ. I think he is the source for Jon and Stannis finding out, but I dont think he directly tells them, as he would be used as their witness to Robert, but used other more subtle methods. What's his motive though? At that point, Varys' plan was for Viserys to lead the Dothraki to Westeros where they'd rape and pillage until Aegon made the save and reclaimed The Throne. From Varys perspective, Robert was the perfect man to be King, because he'd have insisted on facing the Dothraki in the field, rather than forcing them to lay seige, as Tywin (on Joffrey's behalf) or Stannis would've done. I'd also point out that when Arya overhears Varys and Illyrio talking about Ned in AGOT, they are not happy that he's close to finding out about the Twincest, and are worried that it puts all of their plans in jeopardy. They even discuss killing Ned. It really doesn't sound like they wanted anyone else to know at that point. I think there's a possibility that Littlefinger may have dropped some hints to Stannis (to try and win him over perhaps?) but I generally just think Stannis figured it out by himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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