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Xray the Enforcer

[TWOW Spoilers] Alayne I, v. 3

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On 2/11/2018 at 4:37 AM, A Ghost of Someone said:

On a related note, if Margerary manages to survive long enough, she will be considered for Aegon as well. The Tyrells and The Reach were Targaryen loyalists, although a bit incompetent with the exception of Lord Tarly.

I wouldn't be surprised lol  I think Arianne will get her claws onto Aegon first but I reckon the Tyrells will try that at the very least.  lol someone once said about her "wife to 3 kings and mother to none" could get to even 4!  I have to say, I like Marg, she is shrewed but then circumstances always beat her, a bit like with Tyrion I guess and I would like her to do well.  I trust her better than I do Arianne to be honest but, taking into account that I think Aegon will have an outstanding victory and the ovation that goes with it I think he will be short-lived, at least politically.  Marg should be married to someone she can brainstorm with as a high lady but no queen.  She likes the limelight but I think ruling from behind would be better for her lol

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Blue Eyed Wolf's essay and theory on Ser Shadrich, Ser Morgarth, and Ser Byron is probably my favorite theory on what is going to happen with Sansa in TWOW, or at least what will happen with her in the whole Ser Shadrich "abduction" plot point, which I think is going to spin in a completely unexpected direction.

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Thoughts on Harry. I've been thinking that Sansa, the ice maiden and winter's daughter, needs a suitor with a bit of life and warmth in his own background and imagery - just for the sake of symbolic balance and harmony between the seasons. Harry's not that bad in those terms: he's definitely fertile, and his children are bastards (bastards so far have proved super-strong and disruptive - just what the story needs).

Also, Harry's major feature is the complete absence of courtesy and chivalry - things I associate with winter via the Kingsguard and their snowy white cloaks, and Ned Stark's rigid code of conduct.

And a slightly odd thing: Harry is very big on the letter 'H'. Harrold Hardyng. Harry is handsome. Harry is horrible. Harry is the Heir. And more, the whole chapter seems to have a lot of H-based alliteration, more than you'd expect by chance:

Quote
  • "I hate that Harry" [Sweetrobin]
  • "... you must wed a highborn lady and father a son to sit in the High Hall of House Arryn after you are gone." [Alayne, to Sweetrobin]
  • "My father will find a proper wife for you, some highborn girl much prettier than me. You'll hunt and hawk together..." [Alayne, to Sweetrobin]
  • Harry the Heir, Alayne thought. My husband-to-be, if he will have me.
  • the Waynwoods.... Horsefaced and homely, Alayne thought.
  • "Then how do you explain this hole in my chest, from where you stole my heart?" [Ser Roland]
  • And may your horse stumble, Harry the Heir, so you fall on your stupid head in your first tilt. [Alayne]
  • "... we are hoarding our harvest,..." [Grafton]
  • Horrible Ser Harrold [Alayne]
  • "He is honourable..." [Petyr on Lord Royce]
  • "He's horrible." [Alayne, on Harry]
  • And there he stood, Harry the Heir himself; tall, handsome, scowling.

I'd love letter codes to be a thing. No idea what's going on here though.

Edited by Springwatch
bolding

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On 4/12/2015 at 2:30 AM, Lord Varys said:

Actually, I've no reason to believe that either Brienne or Jaime are dead. What Brienne will do in the future will completely hinge on the question what task/mission Catelyn gives her. She has returned into her service, after all. And since she already lured Jaime into a trap we can assume she is willing to serve her again.

 

 

 

 

Considering that Brienne actually has Targaryen blood I'd not be surprised if she and Jaime both eventually ended up in Aegon's Kingsguard.

 

I agree, any more "undeads" and I would stop reading lol Not that George would care if it is what he wants to do but c'mon!  Now, two things stick in my head re the SH, Jaime/Brie cliffhanger; one is the sword and the other the normal oath of fealty that Brienne sworne to Cat, which of course goes both ways.  The paragraph I refer to is the one when Cat promises not to ask of Brienne "anything that would bring her dishonour."  Clearly, lying and tricking a friend onto his death qualifies as this...  A lot of emphasis was put onto that oath and I certainly expect it will be part of some main plot at some point...

For Sadrith I got a lot of ideas but a bit long to spill them out right now.  Just thinking he does truly work for Varys but as an informer and he is not there to kidnap Sansa for gold but for now to gather info but more on that later.

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On 2/11/2018 at 5:37 AM, A Ghost of Someone said:

On a related note, if Margerary manages to survive long enough, she will be considered for Aegon as well. The Tyrells and The Reach were Targaryen loyalists, although a bit incompetent with the exception of Lord Tarly.

besides that Mace controlls Kings landing atm. if tommen dies Margaery would be the best option for Aegon, he would get KL without a fight, as well as the reach.

and all of it asap, sansa only has claims and arianne would only provide Dorne.

also there is house yronwood which might start a civil war in Dorne, either because they see an oportunity when doran takes an anti-crown site or Doran told Lords Yronwood and Flowler different codes, like War means wait for fowler, but attack for Yronwood, that doran can call his allies to get rid of them.

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On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 10:35 PM, Euron Lannister said:

besides that Mace controlls Kings landing atm. if tommen dies Margaery would be the best option for Aegon, he would get KL without a fight, as well as the reach.

and all of it asap, sansa only has claims and arianne would only provide Dorne.

also there is house yronwood which might start a civil war in Dorne, either because they see an oportunity when doran takes an anti-crown site or Doran told Lords Yronwood and Flowler different codes, like War means wait for fowler, but attack for Yronwood, that doran can call his allies to get rid of them.

I would think an entitled young king / prince would probably not want a "used" woman like Margeary. Now, whether or not she has ever had sex before (we really do not know) but we have been told that her Maidenhead is not there anymore and she was married to Renly for longer than one night sooo.... maybe it was a horseback ride or not, she is tainted and possibly viewed as a curse, jinx etc. Just saying, given Aegon's description and persona, I do think he, Aegon will be seduced by Arianne Martell, that is what she does best but for a Queen, Margeary is a joke at this point. 

Edited by A Ghost of Someone

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Well I just read this chapter, and I now realize that the last line about her favor being promised to another is significant.  I am guessing that whoever that other ends up being, will play a big role in Sansa's identity being revealed.

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Don't see Sansa marrying Harry. Laid out plans never happen. The way this is set up it seems like something big will happen in the second chapter. Perhaps her identity will be exposed and the ambitious Harry would actually show interest in marrying. Sansa, who is repulsed by the thought of marrying, will be pushed to flee the Vale and go the only place she might get some protection: Castle Black. Going to the wall would be good to her. What Sansa needs right now is someone she can trust and rely on unconditionally - and Jon can provide that. She in return would give Jon the purpose and will to fight. And together they will, most likely, reclaim Winterfell.

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On 4/22/2019 at 1:51 PM, Lady Winter Rose said:

I kind of believe Sansa will marry Harry, but Myranda will be married to LF. Thoughts?

That is what Sansa believes to be true based on this chapter. My guess is, that while this is planted in the text, it's planted as a misdirection so when Myranda and the Royces come out against LF and "Alayne," it will feel like a bigger twist.

Sansa knows Harry is promised to her and thinks Myranda is interested in LF (based on her, uh, questions). I think, however, that Myranda's questions were a ruse. I think she suspects Alayne of being Sansa since she knew the Lord Commander was "Jon Snow" in AFFC. So she's trying to suss out Sansa's real relationship with LF.

As for marrying Harry, if he knows she's Sansa he'll be more than interested. But, as it stands currently in his eyes, he is the heir to the Vail, a future Lord Paramount, and Warden of the East, and "Alayne" is just the natural daughter of an upjumped minor lord. I think he will try to regain her favor to keep the peace during the Tourney, but I bet he will find a way to free himself of this engagement before ever learning she is Sansa Stark.

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Posted (edited)

Don't see Sansa marrying Harry the Heir. His title foreshadows he will die at an early age. The Young Dragon died at the age of 18. The Young Wolf died at the age of 17. Fake!Aegon, who will most likely die at the hands of Dany, is called the Young Griff. So Harrold Hardying, the young falcon, will die and something tells me he dies in the second Alayne chapter. 

Edited by The Snow Queen

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On 4/12/2015 at 12:32 PM, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Wow, I finally got caught up on these threads.

 

 

 

 

OK first I am really disappointed to see so many people saying the winged knights idea was likely LF's and he fed it to Sansa to make her feel clever. Why can't sansa simply be clever and have had a good idea of her own? Are people really that desperate to put her down?

 

 

 

 

 

Sansa had the idea whilst reading to Robert, and LF embraced her idea, She is pleased that she made the suggestions and he made it all happen. Which shows she is both intelligent enough to have the idea and that she is pleased Petyr is following her instructions, which as a reader we can interpret as "when you know what a man wants you can move him."

 

 

 

 

 

peytr clearly wants to execute his plans but simultaneously wants Sansa to be happy, see also the epic lemoncake, which she is smug about knowing it was really for her, Because again she knows that Peytr is trying to please her, she knows he wants her and is happy that he is willing to go to great lengths to please her, because knowing this means she can manipulate him. Another example is her asking him for flirtation tips. Sansa is well aware of how to flirt, she's just been out in the castle doing it. And we know from book one that Sans is quick and witty and good with people she shows it when she meets Renly & Barristan way back, when she eases the distressed women in the holdfast during the battle, when Tyrion notes her working the room in ASOS and thinks what a good Queen she would have made. She shows it in her little exchange with the hedge knights in AFFC. People who are like sansa is don't need flirting tips, it comes naturally and they excell at it. Sansa doesn't need Peytr's tips but asking him for them maintains his feelings of her needing him, and massages his ego that he is teaching her and she is under his influence 100%, Sansa is playing him already.

 

 

Sansa follows his instructions perfectly but note she does not follow them to the letter because she does NOT ask him to take her outside. This is crucial, she choses to ignore LF's advice in that regard. Showing she isn't just glibly following his lead. She clearly is working with his plan right now, because she wants to go home and to be Sansa Stark again This is clear from the multiple thoughts of home and family and Jeyne.(which I think is important, because we all know what LF did to Jeyne.)

 

 

 

 

 

Sitting near the fire had to be about highlighting her hair, and we know from feast that she is running low on dye so the red undertones will have been shining through here. Interesting, I think there are certain people whom he wants to know or at least suspect who she really is.

 

 

 

 

 

She likes peytr, but she is still aware that he is not to be trusted completely, she notes the smile that doesn't reach his eyes and calls him littlefinger. So whilst she is getting comfortable with him she doesn't trust him completely and she is aware of his feelings for her and is subtly playing him, and lastly that she is willing to follow his instructions but if something she doesn't want is suggested she will chose not to do it.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think anyone is abducting her, she's in training now and needs to spend a reasonable length of time there. Plus I think that she will indeed return to WF with LF and behead him there, so for the time being they need to stay aligned. So what the mad Mouse is up to is a mystery, I did like the Varys connections people were making, but if he is there to try to abduct her he's going to fail. And there is good reason for him to fail as has been pointed out ain't no way out of the Vale right now.

 

 

 

 

 

The favour hmmm, Might she give it to dull Albar Royce? He is the heir to the castle the tourney is held in, and so high enough born for Alayne to use him to put HtH's nose further out of joint and make him feel he needs to seriously re think his initial objections. Sansa described him as dull, but she isn't looking for a knight to favour out of romantic aspirations she is purely looking to play hard to get for Harry.

 

 

 

 

 

And lastly as to SanSan, I don't see anything in this chapter to indicate she has lost interest in Sandor, or shifted her attentions. She just doesn't explicitly mention him, but we do know that she will think of the unkiss again as GRRM has said so. So I'd assume from that that she will be thinking of it again soon. Maybe in the Tourney chapter? Maybe she is crowned Queen of Love & Beauty by the winner and they kiss her, triggering memories of her "first"kiss?

 

 

 

 

 

LF is still kissing her, ewwww, she mentions him kissing her on both cheeks and in the cellar he kisses her forehead. but now they are in a more public castle it seems at least he is keeping his unwanted attentions more chaste. But she is still very aware that he has feelings for her & using them too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ETA: I agree those knives sound suspicious. :/ someone is going to get set up I think.

 

I love the defense of Sansa. She has come a long, long way from the little girl who just wanted a handsome knight and an ending worthy of song. She is developing and learning. 

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On 8/22/2018 at 10:41 AM, A Ghost of Someone said:

I would think an entitled young king / prince would probably not want a "used" woman like Margeary. Now, whether or not she has ever had sex before (we really do not know) but we have been told that her Maidenhead is not there anymore and she was married to Renly for longer than one night sooo.... maybe it was a horseback ride or not, she is tainted and possibly viewed as a curse, jinx etc. Just saying, given Aegon's description and persona, I do think he, Aegon will be seduced by Arianne Martell, that is what she does best but for a Queen, Margeary is a joke at this point. 

And lets not forget about the supposed moon tea Pycelle supplied to her

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Also, I really do think that Doran Martell will try to wed Arianne to Aegon. If he is working this hard to get Quentin matched with Dany, and already had a pact made for Viserys, he will naturally go to the next best option. Aegon.

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Posted (edited)

I think the kidnapping attempt will be staged by LF. I think he will use a failed kidnapping attempt of his Bastard Daughter to reveal he has been honorably trying to protect Sansa Stark. The Lords of the Vale who LF has not bought off will be won over. I think LF and Sansa get Harry and the other Lords ready to go we take the North in her name. Harry and Sansa Stark will be betrothed and with plans to Marry at Winterfell where they can rule together. This will be what they sell the Lords of the Vale on, but LF is not planning on this happening.

I think LF is trying to unite the Riverlands, Vale, and North behind Sansa the same three kingdoms that put Robert on the Throne. LF is the Lord of Harrenhal and in charge of the Riverlands in some capacity, but Sansa Stark could make him pretty popular with her Tully features. The North is a huge question mark, but I have theories, I assume the Vale will arrive expecting the Boltons, but will find that the North is pretending to be under Bolton control in order to get hostages freed from the Twins.

Sansa I believe while Harry goes North, she will start hearing about Aegon Targaryen's return, and his victories. LF will position himself to look like he can make or break Aegon and Varys with the North, Riverlands and Vale seemingly under his power. Most importantly the Vale's food. Sansa and LF will out duel Arianne and Doran to become Aegon's Queen, but just as that decision can't be undone another Aegon is revealed in the North.

I think Jon ends up alive and Victorious some how at WF. They are pretending to be the Boltons victorious against Stannis, requesting the Twins prisoners. When the  prisoner arrive at Winterfell, parts of the brotherhood and Howland Reed come with them. The North and everyone at Winterfell are arguing who should be in charge. The Vale Knights want Sansa. Jon wants Sansa. Everyone else want's Jon, the wildlings, the NW, everyone. Jon is refusing even though people are saying you died the Night's watch vows don't matter anymore. Jon is too focused on the others and is overwhelmed by it all. Then the secret is revealed as well as Robb's Will and everything is Clear Jon is not going to be Lord of Winterfell, but King of the 7 Kingdoms. The Knights of the Vale, the Brotherhood, Wildlings, and North all accept Jon as Aegon Targaryen. Jon Stark was going to marry a wildling Princess, but Aegon Targaryen needs to marry a Queen.

Sansa and Aegon I think will gather strength at Harrenhal after Cersei destroys KL. Sansa Whent Blood will help her not be cursed their just like Arya made it out ok. Jon Snow as Aegon will go to Daenery's to get help for the Other's while Sansa and Aegon try and fight Cersei and Euron who may join up. Jon will do exactly what Tyrion told the other Aegon not to do. He will go to Dany and basically say I am your Nephew and my claim is better than yours and I need a dragon. I think it will fail terribly at first, but in the end it will work out because Jon is one of the few people Tyrion liked and that will be Jon's key to winning Dany over.

I think in the end Jon as King will spare Sansa's child with Aegon even though he will directly conflict with his own children for the throne. If their will be a Throne or maybe a freehold. Not sure how Littlefinger goes or how creepy he gets, but I think he will win Sansa over briefly before being reminded by her siblings that she is a Stark and Winter is Coming. I also think she will see Aegon for what he is a Blackfyre.

 

Edited by Ser Carson

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Posted (edited)

@Ser Carson, I agree that a kidnapping plot could happen, but it will be Lyn Cobray and the Mad Mouse doing it, not Little Finger. Sansa will, most likely, escape from them and instead of going back to the Vale I see her going in a different direction: Castle Black. Why? Because there's a lot of hunting imagery going on in this chapter. There's a scene where Sansa dreams of running with Jeyne and Arya. This could be a possible hint that Sansa's TWOW plot will be getting involved in the F!Arya plot.

A possible scenario is that once Sansa lands on White Harbor by ship she will be captured by Bolton men who assume she's Jeyne - because of her dark hair and age - and bring her to Winterfell. A very dark scenario, considering we all know what Ramsay would do to Sansa, but we should keep in mind that this is a possibility. After all, it has been established that TWOW will be a very dark book.

However, there's a silver lining in this: Mance Rayder. Jon has sent Mance to Winterfell in hopes he would save "Arya", but she is already gone from Winterfell. Mance is right now, assuming he has been captured by Ramsay, being tortured for nothing. That's cruel. Especially since he really wanted to save F!Arya. Wouldn't his sacrifice be better if he did save a daughter of Lord Eddard? And from this scenario, we would get a very interesting subversion of the fairy tale Little Red Riding Hood:

Little Red Riding Hood (Sansa) runs away from her Grandmother's (Lyarra Stark) home (Winterfell) in order to get to her family. The evil huntsman (Ramsay) goes on a hunt for her but she gets saved by the good wolf (Ghost!Jon).

Edited by The Snow Queen

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On 4/11/2015 at 6:48 PM, Jon Weirgaryen said:

 

 

 

*mumblemumble* Loras *mumblemumble*

 

Is there any news of his health since being injured at storms end?

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On 3/12/2018 at 3:53 PM, Morgana Lannister said:

I wouldn't be surprised lol  I think Arianne will get her claws onto Aegon first but I reckon the Tyrells will try that at the very least.  lol someone once said about her "wife to 3 kings and mother to none" could get to even 4!  I have to say, I like Marg, she is shrewed but then circumstances always beat her, a bit like with Tyrion I guess and I would like her to do well.  I trust her better than I do Arianne to be honest but, taking into account that I think Aegon will have an outstanding victory and the ovation that goes with it I think he will be short-lived, at least politically.  Marg should be married to someone she can brainstorm with as a high lady but no queen.  She likes the limelight but I think ruling from behind would be better for her lol

or, hopefully, for once, a bloat thread in the story gets smushed quite quickly

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On 4/12/2019 at 6:24 PM, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

Well I just read this chapter, and I now realize that the last line about her favor being promised to another is significant.  I am guessing that whoever that other ends up being, will play a big role in Sansa's identity being revealed.

Her favour will go to a non participant  at the tourney from sweetsister (no webs) just an affinity to direwolves  Jon Snow from Sisterton 

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