Jackson vs Lincoln

[Freshwater Spartan]

Between the two Lincoln

Best ever? Gerald Ford. Least time in. Least damage done.

[Hot Meat Pie]

Worst president ever was jackson best president Bill Clinton.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

He killed more Americans then anybody and suspended Habeas corpus.

Jackson has his major flaws like Abe, but he spread democracy to all the working stiffs

Laying Civil War dead at Lincoln's feet is deeply unfair. Better to blame the actual warmongers who fought and killed for the right to own and maim and even kill fellow humans. He suspended habeus corpus with an honest to god rebellion going on in close proximity to the capital of the United States (Virginia had seceded, and Maryland was on edge and sabotaging Union efforts). He can be forgiven, and if no greater excess than this can be offered, the charge that he was 'dictatorial' can be shrugged off.

Jackson did not bring "demcoracy to working stiffs," as is commonly believed. In fact, universal male suffrage had advanced quickly in the early 19th century, and by the time Jackson was elected it was the norm in most places. He had no role in expanding suffrage as President, as the federal government did not decided voting eligibility, states did.

[Hugorfonics]

Laying Civil War dead at Lincoln's feet is deeply unfair. Better to blame the actual warmongers who fought and killed for the right to own and maim and even kill fellow humans. He suspended habeus corpus with an honest to god rebellion going on in close proximity to the capital of the United States (Virginia had seceded, and Maryland was on edge and sabotaging Union efforts). He can be forgiven, and if no greater excess than this can be offered, the charge that he was 'dictatorial' can be shrugged off.

Jackson did not bring "demcoracy to working stiffs," as is commonly believed. In fact, universal male suffrage had advanced quickly in the early 19th century, and by the time Jackson was elected it was the norm in most places. He had no role in expanding suffrage as President, as the federal government did not decided voting eligibility, states did.

The term warmonger is very general, and probably incorrect. But John Brown was a warmonger and probably one of the greatest Americans.

I'm not sure I can shrug off his suspension, especially since he never reinstated it, and the rebellion was kinda justified as Lincoln didn't win any southern states. He was probably after a crown like caeser, he was on his way to be a dictator.

I'll take your word for that Onion, if Jackson has little to do with the good parts of Jacksonian democracy, then fuck Jackson

[Hot Meat Pie]

Don't bother arguing with conservatives it's pointless.

[mcbigski]

Both warmongering dictatorial assholes, but at least Jackson was a badass.

Lincoln's military service wasn't notable, but he was apparently surprisingly strong for a lanky guy. Which is to say, he didn't have a badass's temper, but

surely had a large reserve of whup ass available, if needed.

Between the two Lincoln

Best ever? Gerald Ford. Least time in. Least damage done.

Let me introduce you to William Henry Harrison. Your new favorite president.

Don't bother arguing with conservatives it's pointless.

Aren't you a lovely open minded fellow?

[DanteGabriel]

I'm not sure I can shrug off his suspension, especially since he never reinstated it, and the rebellion was kinda justified as Lincoln didn't win any southern states. He was probably after a crown like caeser, he was on his way to be a dictator.

Rebellion is justified by the states that didn't vote for someone? What the fuck kind of reasoning is that?

What makes you think he was after a crown? You need to have more than suspending habeas corpus.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

DG,

Rebellion is justified by the states that didn't vote for someone? What the fuck kind of reasoning is that?

That is entirely dependent upon the, then, unanswered question of whether the States retained the power to choose to voluntarily leave the Union they, voluntarily, joined without having to offer justification for choosing to leave.

It is a fairly complex and nuanced discussion we've had a million times before.

[Freshwater Spartan]

Let me introduce you to William Henry Harrison.

Crap I forgot about him

Change that to Ford......best president In my lifetime.

[The King in Black]

Lincoln was a vampire hunter and married to Mary Elizabeth Winstead. Now you may lock this thread.

[Hot Meat Pie]

Lincoln was a vampire hunter and married to Mary Elizabeth Winstead. Now you may lock this thread.

Lol.

[Shryke]

I'm not sure I can shrug off his suspension, especially since he never reinstated it, and the rebellion was kinda justified as Lincoln didn't win any southern states. He was probably after a crown like caeser, he was on his way to be a dictator.

What? The fuck?

The rebellion was because the slaveholders were afraid that Lincoln, the legally elected president of their country, would make them stop owning people.

That he didn't win a specific state's electoral votes in no way justifies rebellion (welcome to democracy) and there's no evidence of this "after a crown" bullshit anywhere.

[jarl the climber]

Both warmongering dictatorial assholes, but at least Jackson was a badass.

Yeah, if Jackson was alive and folks were talking about him like this, you would have bodies littering the streets. I can't say that Lincoln was a craven either. Nobody could split rails like Old Abe.

Neither one of these guys had a good record with the Indians. Certianly Americas policy towards the natives has never been admirable, assimilationist at best but it would be hypocritical for me to get on a soapbox about it since I'm living on land that was probably taken from them.

I would say that Lincoln had a more signifigant presideny likely the most signifigant to date. Having said that, Jackson was a strong executive, he had an important presidency. To my knowledge Jackson has always been rated among the best presidents when they have polled historians, usually in the top 10. I've always seen him as Americas Henry VIII or Ayatollah Khomeini, certianly repugnant in certain ways but he was a strong leader who had lasting influence there is no getting around it.

[Durckad]

Lincoln easily.

Jackson was a petty, arrogant, vile creature.

[jarl the climber]

The term warmonger is very general, and probably incorrect. But John Brown was a warmonger and probably one of the greatest Americans.

I'm not sure I can shrug off his suspension, especially since he never reinstated it, and the rebellion was kinda justified as Lincoln didn't win any southern states. He was probably after a crown like caeser, he was on his way to be a dictator.

I'll take your word for that Onion, if Jackson has little to do with the good parts of Jacksonian democracy, then fuck Jackson

Lincoln wasn't even on the ticket in a lot of Southern States. The Republicans were a regional party. If you had tried to get Lincoln on the ballot in Alabama for instance would have been like commiting suicide. Moderate Southerners voted for Bell or Douglass. It really says more about the state of the South IMO.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Of course Lincoln didn't win any Southern States. They didn't allow him on the ballot there.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Was really hoping this would have been a "who would win in a fight"-type thread oozing over from General ASOIAF, because I already had a planned response for that:

Seems like Jackson is the favorite, Vegas probably has him at about -970, after all he's on the hundred (at least all I've ever seen) while Lincoln is merely on the ten dollar bill. This is of particular note as the $100 dollar bill is the preferred currency of nuns, cartoonists, and ox breeders while the $10 dollar bill is mostly used for filling preadolescent birthday cards.. I assume the OP selected these two upstanding male models because they are the only two non-Presidents to appear on US currency.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Apart from the whole genocide thing, the other big problem with Jackson is economics. He's responsible for one of the worst Depressions in US history, though like Coolidge later, he left the mess to his successor.

Oh, and as Jackson himself acknowledged as his greatest regret, he didn't hang John Calhoun. ;)

[DireWolfSpirit]

Well Jackson is not the type of

President I would ever praise.

The trail of tears- They knew it

was wrong.

http://youtu.be/qalhDKLrWEQ

In 1838 and 1839, as part of Andrew Jackson's Indian removal policy,

the Cherokee nation was forced to give up its lands east of the Mississippi River and to migrate to an area in present-day Oklahoma. The Cherokee people called this journey the "Trail of Tears," because of its devastating effects.

The Trail of Tears - PBS

www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4h1567.html

That said,

I'm no fan of Lincoln.

Although I'm glad the slaves we're emancipated,

I would've preferred that the country divided permanently

with the Mason-Dixie borders.

I VOTE NEITHER JACKSON NOR LINCOLN.

[Wethers]

Was really hoping this would have been a "who would win in a fight"-type thread oozing over from General ASOIAF, because I already had a planned response for that:

Seems like Jackson is the favorite, Vegas probably has him at about -970, after all he's on the hundred (at least all I've ever seen) while Lincoln is merely on the ten dollar bill. This is of particular note as the $100 dollar bill is the preferred currency of nuns, cartoonists, and ox breeders while the $10 dollar bill is mostly used for filling preadolescent birthday cards.. I assume the OP selected these two upstanding male models because they are the only two non-Presidents to appear on US currency.

While your logic likely remains unimpeachable, two non-presidents are on the $100 and $10 bills: Ben Franklin and Alexander Hamilton respectively. Jackson is on the $20 bill and Lincoln is on the $5 bill.