[Book Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

[Mladen]

I'm sure they will try to say Sansa will become stronger after that experience (if that's what you mean). Because, of course, being sexually forced is like, dunno, being given a traffic ticket. You just power through it by the power of your will.

(I'm not saying this can't happen. It does and I'm personally all for telling women they should rise from their bad situations and not see themselves as nothing but victims, but that doesn't happen without proper help that does not exist in Westeros)

I will repeat this. The fact that we now have 3 put of 4 most important female characters raped speaks volumes.

[olenna123]

This show is not even fan fiction, it's a bunch of pointless and idiotic scenes that make no sense tied together with rape and tits for the entertainment value.

This is sad but so TRUE. It's sad to see what this show has become.

[MordredDayne]

The Sand Snakes are shit. The acting and writing in Dorne scenes is terrible, like we are watching a parody of the show.

The way rape and sexual violence is handled in this show is just disgusting. Starting with the whole Cersei Jaime scene and now Sansa. By adding gratitious rape scenes and female nudity, the writers look like a couple of pervs desperate to insert those things every time they can, regarless of the plot and having no respect for the story being told.

Also what was the point in aging Tommen only to have him act like an 8 year old little boy? Oh it was so they could add a sex scene. Yawn.

That was truly astounding. I mean, he didn't say anything. He might as well not even have been in the scene.

[Florina Laufeyson]

One of the first things that went through my mind during that scene (you know, other than "the horror, the horror!") was that Risto had probably popped a blood vessel, but I'm glad to know you're okay(ish)

tbh, i think i took this episode and the events of it worse than he did. And thats saying something.

Why wont they show Cersei going mad? Why!

[Oakenfist]

I AM OBARA SAND DAUGHTER OF OBERYN MARTELL.

Yea we get it. I seriously think I'm watching an episode of Xena when the Dornish plot pops up.

[Lord Damian]

I am hoping that next week's episode does not pick up right where it left off. Do you guys know what I mean? It does seem as though, through the show producer's comments that Sansa now, finally, has no illusion as to what Ramsay is and this wedding night is supposed to be her turning point from a pawn to a player. I am just really hoping that we have no more matrimony scenes with her and Ramsay but I have a feeling we will. This one was a heartbreaker but if you remember, Dany and Drogo got more provocative before it got better in their scenes after their wedding night. Now, I do not think there will be nudity but I am wondering if there is more of this shit instore for us?

Oh yes, I almost forgot, get that girl some fucking moontea already.

[MordredDayne]

Oh, how could I forget. We get the SECOND instance of LF bringing up the twincest right in poor Carol's face. What happened the last time he did that? Oh, she said she could easily have him murdered. Great plan throwing your queen's biggest secret right in her face during the scene in which you're trying to get her to go along with your plan. Brilliant strategy.

[Prince of the North]

Well, we now have some insight of Littlefinger's plan. This is good. I still can't see why the hell would anyone want Winterfell when was so easy to take control of the Eyrie, but at least it is a plan.

King's Landing is being really disappointing this season.

Yeah, but I thought LF was supposed to be smart? If his plan was to wait to see who won between the Boltons and Stannis then why marry Sansa to the Boltons?! It simply makes NO sense! The far more logical thing would have been to simply push Sansa's claim on Winterfell after Stannis and Roose had weakened each other.

[R4W13Y]

Initial thoughts that I'm sure will get hashed out more later by myself and others:

Arya: felt fine. This is the one storyline that's not completely unrecognizable. But still - it's just fine. It's not blowing me away but it's not offending me. Good acting all around - especially by Maisie (and I'm usually a harsh judge of her acting). Anyway, I actually felt kind of good about all of this in a sense. The relative faithfulness to the books and the acting left me forgetting what horrors I knew were coming. So that was nice.

Jorah and Tyrion: I must agree with MordredDayne, I was screaming a couple times for Jorah to be careful and stop being so touchy with Tyrion, especially when looking out at the slaver's ship, he practically had his hand touching Tyrion's face! I think they kind of shot themselves in the foot making it so freaking contagious. People are going to be watching to make sure Jorah doesn't touch anyone really carefully, which is just logistically difficult and well, stupid. He's gonna accidentally brush up against someone or touch someone out of habit during his scenes, I'm sure, and people will (or should) notice and critique that. So he just...can't touch anyone ever now?

The slavers being black was interesting. Seems like a hamfisted way of putting an "ironic" spin on the slavetrade in Essos. Also interesting that they would SELL SLAVES TO MEEREEN'S FIGHTING PITS. Wut? Slavery is outlawed. Yeah, the pits are open, but SLAVERY IS STILL OUTLAWED. None of that changes no matter how charismatic Tyrion is.

Cock merchant. There is a job in Essos called "cock merchant". Where do I sign up?

Faith Militant: still will never get over the star carved into the forehead. Love that it's basically martial law now, with them everywhere stopping everyone in the streets, ruling over KL now basically. So dumb.

Batfinger: Just...what? Seriously...WHAT? WHAT DOES HE WANT?!?! WHAT THE FUCK IS HIS PLAN?!? I just...I don't know. I don't know how to approach any of this. It's all so twisted and confusing and illogical that there's no way to approach this. It's sloppy, it's messy. We're just supposed to accept bad storytelling and bad characterization and no logic because "chaos is a ladduh" (oh and we want Sansa to get raped, for whatever dumbfuck reason). Seriously guys, WHAT?! Someone explain this to me, please. Because I (and the shownlies I viewed it with) am so confused, and not in a good "ooh I'm intrigued and challenged and want to figure this out" way (i.e. how I feel about Varys and his plans in the books)

Carol: Lena's been kind of obnoxious to me this season. Her weird smiley-ness is kind of unsettling, and takes me out of the show. I don't get any of her logic either and I don't get how she can seriously have no idea that Sansa was last in the Vale with Batfinger. They're making her incredibly incompetent by accident, when they could have made her incompetent on purpose by just following her actual character arc from the books.

Queen of Thornes: we get a scene of her stopping her entourage to comment on the smell, then yells at them to continue, even though she just told them to stop? Small complaint, but seemed like a weird scene. I hated her chat with Carol. Didn't go anywhere. And she SHOULD follow through on her threat to remove her alliance now that Loras and Margaery are imprisoned. I will be upset if the next episodes that doesn't happen. Carol shouldn't just have everything work out for her just because. There should be major consequences to her action of having Loras (the heir in the show) imprisoned.

Loras and whathaveyou: This was just bullshit. I hated the homophobia and the idea that the FM actually gives a shit about any of this. It just doesn't make any sense, and I wish they went with the direction the FM went in the books. I just hate this storyline with a passion.

So Loras is found out thanks to his Dornish butt birthmark. Guess those complaining about the needless sexploitation in the first episode of his ass can now insert their foot into their mouths. IT WAS FOR A VERY IMPORTANT REASON :rolleyes: Olyvar is certainly to be punished too, not like I give a shit.

Margaery being brought down by perjury. Okay? Like, is it really THAT terrible that she lied to the FM about her brother? Who gives a shit? She should be put to death because of it? Talk about extremists. Ridiculous. Carol got lucky that everything worked out in her favor regarding Margaery. Seems like a lot of luck is involved with all of the characters in this show, because good characterization, motivation, logical storytelling etc. aren't doing much for them.

Dorne: Where do I even fucking start?? The lameass acting and uncompelling and uninteresting love story between Trys and Myrcella?? Jaime and Bronn just finding her making out with Trys, then grabbing her saying she needs to come with them? There was NO other way they could have spoken to Myrcella or Doran or anyone else involved to make this a little cleaner and neater, and, well, more successful? They just expected to grab her then leave without any issues? Ellaria being not Ellaria with the Sand Fakes? The extraordinarily lame, cheesy fight scene between them all that amounted to absolutely nothing but them all being arrested? I'll give it one thing, I was laughing and enjoying myself, MST3K style. I felt like I was watching a bad B movie from the 70's, so that was nice I guess.

Also, can we talk about the lush plains of Dorne?

Okay...now...sigh...Sansa: Um. I'm really fucking upset and disgusted. I can't believe they had Sansa raped on the show. I just...I can't believe it for a plethora of reasons that have already been discussed and will continue to be discussed. It was extremely uncomfortable and upsetting to watch, for everyone I was with.

On the plus? side, the acting was phenomenal (Alfie and Sophie especially), and Winterfell was quite beautiful, especially the Godswood with the snow and the lanterns.

Overall, I don't see myself ever rewatching this episode. I gave it a 4 in the rating poll, because I felt like the production (music, cinematography [for once I could actually see what was going on in the HOB&W], costumes, sets, etc) was good, acting was good for the most part (edited to add that obviously this does not apply to those in Dorne! Except for Doran, who was fine. Seriously, Nym just grabs Myrcella and is like "you're coming with me" fucking lol), and I overall enjoyed the Arya scenes. So there you go. Look forward to discussing it with you fine people. Just in the time it took me to write this comment, I've gotten like 8 million new post notifications for this thread.

[Mladen]

tbh, i think i took this episode and the events of it worse than he did. And thats saying something.

Why wont they show Cersei going mad? Why!

I swear to God, I sympathize with anyone who had to endure that. Not because it was something awful, but because we live in the world where the most watched TV show in 21st century treats women like that.

[Saturno]

I think Jaqen's decisions about when Arya is or isn't ready are so disconnected with her growth as a character. "oh my, we're on the 6th episode already! better tell her she's almost ready no matter what"

[ckongo]

Why would the slavers suddenly decide to change course at an ambulatory magical dwarf's cock's urging? On the off chance that the pits' reopening means they can sell ONE slave?

And without the payoff line (that's what i've been telling all the girls)...

Any stupider than Arya being ready to be "someone else" after learning how to serve water and scrub dead people's toes? Or how Jaime and Bronn managed to just stroll right up to Myrcella? If it hadn't been for those bloodthirsty sand snakes, I bet their brilliant plan would ensure they'd have no problem just walking out of there with Myrcella back to King's Landing. Ugh.

[Sharpes]

I AM OBARA SAND DAUGHTER OF OBERYN MARTELL.

Yeah, it's not as if Areo Hotah doesn't know who she is. Sigh. =/

[Good Guy Garlan]

tbh, i think i took this episode and the events of it worse than he did. And thats saying something.

Why wont they show Cersei going mad? Why!

Cersei did look crazy. Crazy hot! Seriously, Lena looked great. Shame about, you know, everything else.

Can we discuss how Loras' freaking birthmark was the key piece of evidence in the trial? I half expected the High Sparrow to order Loras to show everyone his ass, and then Olenna to say, "Hang on, I don't think that really looks like Dorne, right, Margaery? I think it's more shaped like Volantis, wouldn't you agree?"

[Sharpes]

Sorry. Double post.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

FTR, a lot of my Unsullied loved the episode. "SO SHOCKING. BEST EPISODE EVER!". Not to say the jokes I'm seeing. Yes. Jokes.

BTW... Maisie is also 18. Is anybody else fearing the same I do...?

[ctid1977]

Exactly as I thought. They chose to sacrifice Sansa's story (after all there isn't much left in the books and who cares about the growth of the only non cartoony female protagonist) to place her into the Jayne Pool role. It's not about her character advancement, it's about Theon! How sad, and predictable and a little bit sexist.

[MordredDayne]

I also couldn't help but laugh about Myrcella's, "No, we can't kiss here. People will see us!" when there are clearly people all over the place in these gardens AND Doran is sitting on a balcony watching you. I mean, look up, girl. I think he's waving at you right now.

[Saturno]

Sansa is getting taller and taller. She's bigger than Ramsay, easily. I sincerely thought for a second that she was going to suddenly smack his face or something. By the end of the season she'll have to look down to speak with brienne.

[Lord Damian]

I keep remembering the pictures of Sophie playing sansa, year to year, then, on her wedding night, she was nervous, even trying to smile at Ramsay and then the tearing of that pretty dress, then the reality hits her eyes. I remember her crying for Lady, her father to be spared, the beatings when Robb kicked Tywin's armies collective asses all over the Riverlands and Westerlands. It will take a very long time to forget her agonizing crying at the hands of Ramsay Bolton.

My heart is broken for this girl. Yes, I know, a fictional character but one I have loved and rooted for as well as for her good family. The fact that the showrunners deliberately went out of their way to do this to this character is so beyond the pale. The actess, yes, i get it, Sophie played this one well and was probably her best performance of the series but it really kills us fans. I hope there is no more sexy time with the newlyweds, the damage is done in our minds, through our eyes and ears, please, no more.