[Book Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

[Minsc]

Ignoring the major elephants in the room, I wish to bring up a discussion in this episode that annoyed me. That of Margaery and Olenna's discussion about Loras and Renly. As they already made it so Loras has no real problem jumping in bed with the first pretty boy to wink at him after Renly's death, but now we find out that supposedly Renly had bedded numerous stableboys as gays be promiscuous. I find this frustrating as in the book's Renly/Loras's relationships comes off as one of the few true and actual romantic pairing in the story (alongside Cat and Ned's) in a sea of unsettling, traumatic, or otherwise horrible pairings (Cersei/Robert, Dany/Drogo, Sansa/Tyrion, Ramsay/Jeyne, and so forth). Yet, now it appears to be just some casual fling on part of both individuals in between their bedding of random stable boys or squires.

[clawson24]

Dorn... Dorn... Dorn... what a waste of screen time. The fact that Alexander Siddiq has to share a storyline with the Highschool Musical graduates known as the Sand Snakes is a travesty. Someone please kill the 3 bimbos in their cells. I don't think I can watch another second of their amateur dramatics.

Dorn was bad enough in the books, D&D deserve credit for making it a 100 times worse.

I'm hoping Doran's big end-of-season speech will give Dorne at least a tiny sliver of redemption -- but yeah, it's been pretty bad so far.

[Cashless Society]

Have you read Mercy?

She's still 11 and while she doesn't have sex she kinda fondles a guy's penis to lure him into sex. So... yeah.

She's gonna fondle Trant's penis?

[Saturno]

I'm very disappointed.

There was A LOT of talk about how polemic and strong this episode would be. I was prepared to see Sansa getting violently tortured, Bronn getting killed by Areo Hotah, maybe even Loras being tortured by the Faith Militant, but everything was kinda half delivered. Now, I don't want you guys thinking that Im overlooking Sansa's suffering, but I believe Jaime's rape of Cersei in the show was much more graphic, more shocking and, first of all, with so much more impact. When Jaime Lannister is a more violent raper than Ramsay Bolton, you bet that something is wrong.

So I felt the show didnt delivered as much as the hype they created, almost as if they didnt had the guts to actually go through their own deviations. If Bronn and Jaime have Arys Oakheart job, just let one of them die like Arys died. It was SO FUCKING LAME to see Areo going "POLICE! EVERYBODY FREEZE!". specially after Doran's lines about Areo using the axe...

[Shinjinobrave]

Well, Winterhell was awful, but Porne made up for it.

Yes, what they are doing to Sansa is disgusting, but who cares when we've got the Hilarious Hijinx of Jaime and Bronn! :fencing:

When they snuck in and pulled down their little scarfs, that was the funniest shit I've seen in weeks, adorable too. D&D love Dorne don't you know and that story is all about... what... a sad Pirates of the Caribean rip-off?

[LmL]

If by "everyone" you mean the producers and writers, hear, hear.

Yeah. That was the last episode I will ever watch. Not even going into detail - just no. I can't take this show seriously, I can't read reviews that take the show seriously, I can't listen to podcasts that take it seriously.What a travesty. There are not justifications. COMPLETELY done watching this show.

[Saturno]

OH, just loved how Baelish travelled from the Eerye to Winterfell and then to Kings Landing faster than Stannis is able to reach Winterfell...

[R4W13Y]

It's good not to be alone anymore. Btw my latest review is in my sig

Thank the Gods, I love your reviews.

Ignoring the major elephants in the room, I wish to bring up a discussion in this episode that annoyed me. That of Margaery and Olenna's discussion about Loras and Renly. As they already made it so Loras has no real problem jumping in bed with the first pretty boy to wink at him after Renly's death, but now we find out that supposedly Renly had bedded numerous stableboys as gays be promiscuous. I find this frustrating as in the book's Renly/Loras's relationships comes off as one of the few true and actual romantic pairing in the story (alongside Cat and Ned's) in a sea of unsettling, traumatic, or otherwise horrible pairings (Cersei/Robert, Dany/Drogo, Sansa/Tyrion, Ramsay/Jeyne, and so forth). Yet, now it appears to be just some casual fling on part of both individuals in between their bedding of random stable boys or squires.

That always seems to be a common complaint amongst book readers, for exactly the reasons you mentioned. It seems like a touching, beautiful love story in a book that doesn't have much of it. I really miss that element from the show and you're right, this episode just destroyed that relationship even more by now making Renly promiscuous along with Loras. I would have loved a more subtle homosexual relationship that defied stereotypes but alas, here we are. D&D are not known for their nuance or trope-breaking.

[Marcel]

The only thing I can save from this episode is that from now on I will refer to D&D as the cock merchants.

[MordredDayne]

Ignoring the major elephants in the room, I wish to bring up a discussion in this episode that annoyed me. That of Margaery and Olenna's discussion about Loras and Renly. As they already made it so Loras has no real problem jumping in bed with the first pretty boy to wink at him after Renly's death, but now we find out that supposedly Renly had bedded numerous stableboys as gays be promiscuous. I find this frustrating as in the book's Renly/Loras's relationships comes off as one of the few true and actual romantic pairing in the story (alongside Cat and Ned's) in a sea of unsettling, traumatic, or otherwise horrible pairings (Cersei/Robert, Dany/Drogo, Sansa/Tyrion, Ramsay/Jeyne, and so forth). Yet, now it appears to be just some casual fling on part of both individuals in between their bedding of random stable boys or squires.

This is a really excellent point. It wasn't enough for them to have Loras talking fashion and jumping into bed with Olyvar, now apparently everyone knew that Renly was walking around screwing guys left and right. It's just so offensive and distasteful. In the books we get "When the sun has set, no candle can replace it." and the show gives us "That sunset was great while it lasted, but now I'm going to go light as many candles as I can!"

I'm very disappointed.

There was A LOT of talk about how polemic and strong this episode would be. I was prepared to see Sansa getting violently tortured, Bronn getting killed by Areo Hotah, maybe even Loras being tortured by the Faith Militant, but everything was kinda half delivered. Now, I don't want you guys thinking that Im overlooking Sansa's suffering, but I believe Jaime's rape of Cersei in the show was much more graphic, more shocking and, first of all, with so much more impact. When Jaime Lannister is a more violent raper than Ramsay Bolton, you bet that something is wrong.

So I felt the show didnt delivered as much as the hype they created, almost as if they didnt had the guts to actually go through their own deviations. If Bronn and Jaime have Arys Oakheart job, just let one of them die like Arys died. It was SO FUCKING LAME to see Areo going "POLICE! EVERYBODY FREEZE!". specially after Doran's lines about Areo using the axe...

Agreed. Not only that, but we have him going through the motions like he's going to chop off his head...but then he doesn't. So either we got a fake out spit in the face to the book readers or the lamest piece of decapitation foreshadowing ever.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I've read it but that is a book, and television is completely out of the question for a completely accurate adaption of Mercy. It's visual and people cross the line at seeing pedophilia. Or seeing a character that is like a daughter to them fondle a soldier. That is what I think anyway. D&D aren't that stupid (well, I hope not...)

Sophie just turned 18 last year and they got her raped. She's meant to be around 16 in the show and before that, she was already dragged by a crowd and was sexually assaulted. You think they wouldn't do the same with Maisie? You think they cared more for her than for Sophie?

[Shinjinobrave]

Another saving grace was Alfie Allen's amazing acting. He's like: don't worry audience, you don't have to watch the rape, just let me act my ass off. They ruined her for the sake of my story, I'll be damned if I'm not going to try and make that work. Never thought I'd prefer seeing quivering Alfie over naked Sophie, but D&D have given us no other choice.

I even feel gross for finding her attractive now, because I feel like at least someone in the writer's team had that idea: I want to shoot something sexual with Miss Turner.... :ack:

[Shinjinobrave]

Another saving grace was Alfie Allen's amazing acting. He's like: don't worry audience, you don't have to watch the rape, just let me act my ass off. They ruined her for the sake of my story, I'll be damned if I'm not going to try and make that work. Never thought I'd prefer seeing quivering Alfie over naked Sophie, but D&D have given us no other choice.

I even feel gross for finding her attractive now, because I feel like at least someone in the writer's team had that idea: I want to shoot something sexual with Miss Turner.... :ack:

[clawson24]

Exactly as I thought. They chose to sacrifice Sansa's story (after all there isn't much left in the books and who cares about the growth of the only non cartoony female protagonist) to place her into the Jayne Pool role. It's not about her character advancement, it's about Theon! How sad, and predictable and a little bit sexist.

So nothing she does moving forward has any relevance whatsoever any more? The entire ending to her arc is now irrelevant because of one more instance of victimization? It was OK that she's been victimized for 45 episodes but 46 is pushing it?

[LmL]

Ignoring the major elephants in the room, I wish to bring up a discussion in this episode that annoyed me. That of Margaery and Olenna's discussion about Loras and Renly. As they already made it so Loras has no real problem jumping in bed with the first pretty boy to wink at him after Renly's death, but now we find out that supposedly Renly had bedded numerous stableboys as gays be promiscuous. I find this frustrating as in the book's Renly/Loras's relationships comes off as one of the few true and actual romantic pairing in the story (alongside Cat and Ned's) in a sea of unsettling, traumatic, or otherwise horrible pairings (Cersei/Robert, Dany/Drogo, Sansa/Tyrion, Ramsay/Jeyne, and so forth). Yet, now it appears to be just some casual fling on part of both individuals in between their bedding of random stable boys or squires.

Agree 100%. It matches with their slavish, thoughtless handling of other sensitive issues... like rape, which they have screwed up three times now. I was too busy being horrified by Dornes bad writing and everything Sansa and I missed that particular angle (although I've surely noticed the extremely shallow and cartoonish handling of Loras, "the gay guy"), but you're exactly on the money. Cheap. Shallow. Tasteless. Borderline offensive. As usual.

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

I'm so glad that this got approved. Hearing, "Hey, what's the big deal? Rape happens all the time in the books. Don't smallfolk lives matter?" was bad for my blood pressure.

[Alboin]

Sometimes I enjoy these threads more then the show itself :love:

[RGBeyondAsshai]

So...I imagined the water gardens a little differently. I didn't realize it was just a little garden with a fountain. Oooh pretty fountain.

My husband and I discussed and pretty much covered everything already said here.

Arya--at least her story looks familiar. Also cool face tower.

Dorne--I was expecting POW and KABOOM thought bubbles to pop up during the fight scene. And speaking of, how ridiculous was it that Jaime and Bronn and the Sand Chicks both came to the gardens in broad daylight? Who does that? Everyone can see you.

Tyrion and Jorah--buddy cop comedy with cock merchants. Sad thought. Even if Dany loved him and forgave him...he can never touch her now. Thanks for crushing my dreams. Them keeping grayscale story in the show does intrigue me, since they've cut out everything else in the world.

Little Batfinger--Man, he fooled me for four seasons. I thought he was clever...but apparently he's the biggest idiot in Westeros.

KL---Cersei is still not crazy. That is seriously disappointing. She's actually never been so calm and collected. And the birthmark--I called that the second they added a sex scene so they could spend 10 minutes talking about it--even though I agree with everyone. Squires actually dress their lords, fetch bathwater...everyone knows about the birthmark. Stupid plot device.

Sansa and Winterfell--they really rushed that wedding along. I was hoping for Theon to hear whispers from Bran via the godswood or something. And no northern lords or anything, so...not sure how they'll continue with that storyline. I long for Frey pie.

And about what happened after...I knew it was going to as soon as she headed to Winterfell so I tried to prepare myself. She's never been my favorite character but now I just feel so bad for her. I mean she is every sick twisted guy's chew toy in this series. How is that empowering? Do they think virginity is an obstacle to being a strong woman? Like--now that we have that out of the way, she can kick ass? No...they'd only have to look at Arya and Brienne to know that's not true. So now I have no idea what their thinking process is.

On a positive note, they are flying through the books so quickly, winter might actually come before the season ends. White Walkers, kill them all! (except for Arya and Jon)

[Good Guy Garlan]

Ignoring the major elephants in the room, I wish to bring up a discussion in this episode that annoyed me. That of Margaery and Olenna's discussion about Loras and Renly. As they already made it so Loras has no real problem jumping in bed with the first pretty boy to wink at him after Renly's death, but now we find out that supposedly Renly had bedded numerous stableboys as gays be promiscuous. I find this frustrating as in the book's Renly/Loras's relationships comes off as one of the few true and actual romantic pairing in the story (alongside Cat and Ned's) in a sea of unsettling, traumatic, or otherwise horrible pairings (Cersei/Robert, Dany/Drogo, Sansa/Tyrion, Ramsay/Jeyne, and so forth). Yet, now it appears to be just some casual fling on part of both individuals in between their bedding of random stable boys or squires.

Yep, glad you brought this up, totally agree. Glad JonCon didn't make the cut, or I bet they would've made him getting greyscale after banging some Stone Men.

[R4W13Y]

Oh another thing I remember - of COURSE Tyrion knows about the exact details of Jeor's death. Is he the new Batfinger in terms of Westerosi Wikipedia? I guess he has to be in order to provide Dany with perfect advice and history on her family.