[Book Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

[a free shadow]

The writers have taken something like a 'connect the dots' picture that they were given, and crisscrossed everything so stupidly that instead of a dragon or a wolf or whatever that picture should have come to be, it is like a big maimed or mutant beast with half of a head and eleven legs, that is asking to be saved from the misery.

I would not rather say much about this episode, because I bet that with every sound of the discussion that reaches the writers, they will again manage to convince themselves that they are being wronged by the masses of the less perceptive, and congratulate themselves more for their work.

[Nihlus]

OH, just loved how Baelish travelled from the Eerye to Winterfell and then to Kings Landing faster than Stannis is able to reach Winterfell...

I almost forgot about Batfinger jetpacking his way around Westeros. He left Winterfell soon after arriving, and was at KL in this episode before the wedding in Winterfell even happened! What the actual fuck is going on with the show's timeline?

AND WHY ISN'T BALON DEAD?

Also, Theon crying? That was weird. No doubt he'd seen x1,000 times worse by that point. He watched Ramsay hunt girls and kill them, flay hundreds of men alive, and cut off his (Theon's) own dick... and THIS is what gets a strong reaction out of him? I think that this was supposed to be indicative of Theon being more Theon and less of an obedient shell, but it feels so unearned.

[R4W13Y]

Yep, glad you brought this up, totally agree. Glad JonCon didn't make the cut, or I bet they would've made him getting greyscale after banging some Stone Men.

:lmao:

[sonsastronk]

Sophie just turned 18 last year and they got her raped. She's meant to be around 16 in the show and before that, she was already dragged by a crowd and was sexually assaulted. You think they wouldn't do the same with Maisie? You think they cared more for her than for Sophie?

No, No, not at all. Ack. I'm tongue-tied. There's just something in my brain that tells me they wouldn't do something like that with Arya. Maybe false hope.

[Red Tiger]

Sometimes I enjoy these threads more then the show itself :love:

Well the show has been setting an incredibly low bar recently.

[RGBeyondAsshai]

Also just loose threads. So many loose threads.

I have a hard time imagining how anyone who hasn't read the books would know what was going on. It all seems so rushed and choppy.

[RGBeyondAsshai]

No, No, not at all. Ack. I'm tongue-tied. There's just something in my brain that tells me they wouldn't do something like that with Arya. Maybe false hope.

My thought is Meryn Trant will try-since he's been sent there to be the stand-in...and then she'll kill him.

[Justin Danford]

The way I see it, book slayers D&D are doing us all a big favor. I was worried my investment in the show would clash with my larger investment in the books. I'd be compelled to witness the unfolding of one of my favorite series before I had a chance to experience it properly. Nice guys D&D made sure they ruined things so profoundly, who even cares what they "spoil?" Their telling is so foreign and unrecognizable; they could reveal "R+L" really does equal "J" and I'd have to question if that means it's not true in the books.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Yep, glad you brought this up, totally agree. Glad JonCon didn't make the cut, or I bet they would've made him getting greyscale after banging some Stone Men.

and the Stone Men would be prostitutes.

[Good Guy Garlan]

and the Stone Men would be prostitutes.

And there would be a lot of references to how "hard" they are.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

And there would be a lot of references to how "hard" they are.

And they would have the shape of Valyria tattooed on their asses.

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

Now that group therapy is live, here are some things I've said from other threads:

Well, go to hell, Ding & Dong.

Sansa Stark is now Sansa Bolton and was raped by Ramsay. Let that sink in. This is the sorry state to which the show has sunk. I know we joke about the show being "fan fiction," but there really is no better description: it's set in GRRM's world and includes his cast of characters - minus the super-compelling Olly, Olyvar, Myranda, and Ros, of course - but bears less and less resemblance to the original story with each passing week.

The rape scene was inexcusable. Those arguing that it was realistic given Westerosi marriage customs in general and Ramsay's character in particular are missing the point. It made no sense for Sansa to be in Winterfell marrying into the Boltons in the first place. You can't simply rip a major character out of her storyline, insert her into the role of a minor character who pretty much exists solely to be sexually abused, and then rip her back out again and place her back on the right track. This, by the way, is exactly the rationale that Ding & Dong gave for this change: they thought it would make the Winterfell storyline - because apparently Ramsay and fArya is all they see in the Winterfell storyline - more gripping. Seriously, that's an idea that should have been laughed out of town, but instead it's on HBO. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

I hoped that they would at least be tasteful/merciful about the wedding night - maybe have it ominously implied offscreen - but no, they just had to take it all the way and include Sansa crying and screaming. Seriously, the more I think about it, the more disturbing I find it that Ding & Dong raped Sansa for no good reason. Ramsay wedding and bedding a "Stark" in Winterfell is not paramount to the story. In fact, it is actually secondary to what is happening in Winterfell - the rising tensions between the Northern lords, the Boltons, and the Freys - not to mention Theon's redemption, which is going to be upstaged by Brienne the Brute going all "Leroy Jenkins" into Winterfell. Ramsay's abuse of fArya is not the center of the action; it's just one of many factors leading to the confrontation between the Freys and the Manderlys. How do Ding & Dong adapt this? Why, they cut out everything that matters but leave the rape, of course. Shame on these bozos and shame on anyone who continues to carry their water.

And all this butchery and betrayal of the story so that Littlefinger can get Cersei - who apparently still has authority despite King Tommen being of age - to make him Warden of the North for sweeping away the remnants after the Battle of Ice. It's not as if he could have made the same offer without sacrificing his most valuable asset, right? Or even acquired the same power on his own, without the Iron Throne's permission? After all, isn't Littlefinger counting on the downfall of the ruling regime in King's Landing? Why would he sacrifice Sansa for a reward from a dynasty which he expects to fall? Besides, as treacherous and cruel as Littlefinger is in the books, he does, in his own sick and twisted way, care for Sansa. He's all about controlling and manipulating her, yes, but he would never throw her to the wolves - or in this case, the flayed men.

What else? Oh, add the Dorne-shaped birthmark on Loras' ass to the list of HBO-original characters that I hate.

Everything in Dorne was painful. The lush, verdant...Dornish desert? Jaime and Bronn in disguise? The one thing that was missing was a laugh track. Oh, and that fight scene was so badly choreographed and edited that I actually had a hard time paying attention. It looked lazy and confused - more like LARPing than anything else, honestly.

Here's the thing: Ramsay and fArya is just one part of the Winterfell storyline. The heart of what's happening in Winterfell is the conflict between the Northmen and the Bolton-Frey axis of evil. Ramsay's brutalization of fArya serves to escalate the tension. It can be included only in that context. If you eliminate that context, though, as has been done on the show, then the rape should be eliminated, too. Including Ramsay and fArya without any of the context which gives it meaning would be bad enough. Swapping in Sansa for fArya for a rape which no longer serves any purpose, however, is an atrocity. It's really disturbing that out of everything going on in Winterfell, this is what they chose to include - and that they dismantled several storylines to make it happen.

What Ding & Dong just did would be equivalent to having the Witch King rape Eowyn or Fenrir Greyback rape Hermione. In a way, I'm grateful that these scumbags and sleazballs have outed themselves as the depsicable people that they are.

My girlfriend is seceding from the show. No more watching. No more reading. No more discussing.

[Red Tiger]

Garlan, JonCon!

In the past you two have written fanfics about this shit, just admit it!

[barristan-b]

Exactly as I thought. They chose to sacrifice Sansa's story (after all there isn't much left in the books and who cares about the growth of the only non cartoony female protagonist) to place her into the Jayne Pool role. It's not about her character advancement, it's about Theon! How sad, and predictable and a little bit sexist.

Agree. The thing is Sansa has been in so many episodes since the beginning in Winterfell through KL and this whole journey back that it makes me wish they took the focus off her a bit...maybe gave her somewhat of a Bran speedbump and focused on what they cut or beef up other storylines. D&D claimed they made the change and took our Jeyne since the viewers were so invested in Sansa.

My guess is that they didn't want to take Sansa away too much and have to introduce more characters in the north. Still though even with the decision being made, it could have been done differently or something without her becoming Sansa Bolton. I really don't see how that would happen in the show and making her a Bolton through a bastard is just...I mean wtf.

Or at least draw out the Stannis-Bolton collision. Winterfell has still got me interested just highly unsettled.

Concerning Dorne: I don't want to speak about Dorne

And Kings Landing is getting a little dry. I don't know, just seems Cersei: Days of Our Lives.

[Shinjinobrave]

Arianne, the Griffs and the Greyjoys...

They all dodged a bulet.

Imagine Arianne being raped, JonCon being a promiscuous whore and Victarion doing nothing but compete with Euron over who can say the most oneliners...

[1234567]

Garlan, JonCon,

THANK YOU!

That has brightened the board....especially since there is an influx of subtle rape apologists on the threads. :(

[bobbybuilderton]

My reaction to these forums as someone who stopped watching after episode 409: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oy6DwHAi70

[Everett Snow]

I kept hoping the Dornish storyline would improve... it hasn't. As nice a pairing as Jaime and Bronn make, they can't balance out how underwhelming the sandsnakes are.

The Tyrells came across very poorly here. Loras has never particularly been written as a smart character, but Oleanna and Margaery have. Not in this episode though.

Tyrion and Jorah's scenes were good. The reaction Jorah had to learning about his father was quiet touching.

Arya's scenes were pretty much all around well done. The Hall of Faces looked appropriately impressive.

And there is a big enough thread already for the... Winterfell scenes, so I won't bring those up here.

[Le Cygne]

Quoting this, from Rapsie:

So taking a poll, does anyone think the scene was used for any of the reasons below:
a) They wanted to make sure the audience could love Theon again because he will rescue Sansa.
b ) They can show how 'nice' St Tyrion was in comparison.
c) They have had no interest in Sansa's character from day 1 and have just been passing time until Sophie Turner hit 18.
d) D&D have really deep seated issues with women, (especially that girl who didn't realise how awesome they were back in high school.)
e) All of the above.

I'll go with e) all of the above. This is beyond offensive, what they've done, and the way they've done it. I have no words, but you expressed it well, so...

[Scrambled Aegon]

My reaction to these forums as someone who stopped watching after episode 409: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oy6DwHAi70

Haven't seen a full episode since "Are you afraid of a dead whore?" last season. I have honestly just straight-up forgotten it was on every week this season but with the route they're going I don't think I'd watch now even if I did remember.

I did watch the Sansa/Ramsay scene and all I have to say is FUCK. THAT.