Pigeon Pie Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 Maybe its old news, but Jon's Targaryen-ess might make the funeral pyre a catalyst, like when Dani hatched the eggs...in other words, he is "hatched" into AA. What I've always thought. :agree: I see Mel very differently. I think she is inherently a good person. She see's a threat. Far bigger than one person alone. She believes that AAR can stop this threat. I get the impression she feels that the sacrifice of one little girl is correct if it saves a thousand little girls. No matter how horrible it is. People get sent off to war with the knowledge that not everyone will come back. In a way it is the same, sacrifice a few to save the many. It is basic warfare. Admittedly her methods are unconventional, but she never kills for no reason. It is always for the greater good and to save humanity as a whole. She doesn't seem to do anything for self gain like most characters. Whether she is right or wrong we shall only discover in the fulness of time. She is most likely wrong about Stannis being the one true king. I don't think she fully understands her visions and that is why she gets it wrong. I think she is going to find out that her future is somehow tied to Jon. I think FTW needs to happen as Jon needs to be released from his Nights Watch vows and I can't see any other way to do that. I don't think burning Shireen will help Jon. However I agree that she might find out about who Jon is. Yes. Her actions may be "evil", but most sacrifices for the greater good seem so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jet199 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 My feeling is that doing bad things "for the greater good" is still bad. In fact it's extra bad because it is stupid and egotistical as well as evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosehustle1 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 My feeling is that doing bad things "for the greater good" is still bad. In fact it's extra bad because it is stupid and egotistical as well as evil.It's like that quote, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". But I don't think he's doing this for a greater good I think that this is all about power. It's terrible that this is what they did to this character's arc. Ridiculous characterizations once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeon Pie Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 My feeling is that doing bad things "for the greater good" is still bad. In fact it's extra bad because it is stupid and egotistical as well as evil. It is to us. It's not to the people who are doing it, and it certainly isn't when you're weighing it realistically, in an actual situation. Sorry for the OT example, but look at the Supernatural season 10 finale which everyone absolutely hated... wouldn't it have been understandable and even good for Dean to kill Sam if it saves humanity (and even if heartbreaking to us), rather than saving him and unleashing a huge flippin mess on all of humanity (again)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirthula Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 What is the definition of greater good here from Stannis POV. Is sitting the Iron Throne the greater good according to Stannis why because he needs to save the realm from the Lannisters who are monsters traitors and are killing innocents. Even if that is true even if Stannis is doing all this because he believes only he as king can help the realm and help the NW. As king he can be more actively involved in sending NW help and help prepare the realm for winter. This is all good but why would any king who killed his own daughter because he wanted to sit the iron throne, this is how everyone else will see it, inspire any confidence. His subjects his army and anyone who has remotely any brain or heart would never stand behind such a king. He kills his own daughter today tomorrow he might burn everyone down for the greater good. Where does Stannis Baratheon draw the line. This whole thing that Shireen needs to die to resurrect Jon. Jon might just be the primary protagonist of the story can they really taint his existence by saying he is alive because an innocent girl died in his place. Maybe Jon won't find out what is the cost of one child when it comes to Jon's destiny to save the realm, it is everything. I think this red god is no god, just weird blood magic sorcery that is called god. I am only questioning show Stannis here, the way he is shown on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksniffer Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 What is the definition of greater good here from Stannis POV. Is sitting the Iron Throne the greater good according to Stannis why because he needs to save the realm from the Lannisters who are monsters traitors and are killing innocents. Even if that is true even if Stannis is doing all this because he believes only he as king can help the realm and help the NW. As king he can be more actively involved in sending NW help and help prepare the realm for winter. This is all good but why would any king who killed his own daughter because he wanted to sit the iron throne, this is how everyone else will see it, inspire any confidence. His subjects his army and anyone who has remotely any brain or heart would never stand behind such a king. He kills his own daughter today tomorrow he might burn everyone down for the greater good. Where does Stannis Baratheon draw the line. I am only questioning show Stannis here, the way he is shown on TV. the same questions the kingslayer had about mad aerys just before he drove the blade home... will davos become a kingslayer as well??? that could break the internet...stannis burns shireen and davos kills stannis and red woman sees it but too late... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinwesteros Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I don't think Davos would kill Stannis, but I do think he would try to stop Stannis from burning Shireen. I certainly hope so, anyway. I do see Stannis getting really "I'm the one chosen by God" kind of thing, and that's always scary as hell to me, no matter who/what it is. Mel - well, Mel was wrong about what she saw in the flames previously, and I think she will recognize this in 5.09 and take off for the wall. This is book spoiler, right? OK, I think Jon won't be stabbed until 5.10, with Draznak will be the really big event for 5.09. I don't think they'd put the two big incidents in the same episode, but I could be wrong. Stranger things have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Gabe Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 My feeling is that doing bad things "for the greater good" is still bad. In fact it's extra bad because it is stupid and egotistical as well as evil. I agree with the sentiment, but it isn't quite that simple I think. There are many different levels of "bad things" and there are many different levels of what "the greater good" is, just like there are many different shades of grey in a person as is represented in GRRM's characters. If the Others are basically an evil force of nature that must be stopped, then it is likely that Melisandre's presence at the Wall is helpful to the cause of the "good" side in spite of the terrible things she might do in the name of R'hllor. I despise Mel. I despise everything she stands for, but describing her as evil is perhaps to ignore one of the many interesting points of GRRM's story. Like many other characters, she is a (quite darkly) grey character serving a particular cause. And in her case, it appears to be a good cause even if the way she serves it is morally despicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenniferashley99 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I was kind of hoping for a different story line then the one that is being stated today...last episode was so grand that if "this" is it..the angle they use it will be another dull episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayard Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Maybe its old news, but Jon's Targaryen-ess might make the funeral pyre a catalyst, like when Dani hatched the eggs...in other words, he is "hatched" into AA. Yeah, but that also involved some strong blood magic, the lineage is not enough. Forgive me, but is there anyone around Stannis on the show that has ANY kind of King's blood? I honestly cant remember. His wife is a Florent, is she of royal descent? Just wondering if there are any options to save Shireen by burning someone else. Yeah, the Florents have Gardner royal blood in them, probably the most from the houses in the Reach... but honestly, all the noble houses in Westeros have some royal blood in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost of Rhaegar Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I think Stanis would be smart enough to send Davos away before he tried burning Shireen. He knows there is NO WAY Davos would stand there and let that happen. Davos is either dead or long gone when that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirthula Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I guess the philosophical argument would be that the fight for greater good is fought by good people ultimately not by those who have killed the good in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 What if Ramsay attacks the camp, kills Davos and torches their supplies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christi84 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I think Sansa and Theon will escape, run into Stannis and Davos and go look for Rickon. I hope its not Shireen, but I can see Theon become a willing sacrifice. He does have kings blood, and there was the no mention of Balon by Melisandre which could be pointed out, and does he really want to live with all thats happened to him? I can see a Shireen attempt, but Theon going to stop it and being burned in the process, at least I hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandzipop Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 What if Ramsay attacks the camp, kills Davos and torches their supplies? Davos is in season 6. He mentioned that he was filming Game of Thrones next month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blushingfae Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Yeah, the Florents have Gardner royal blood in them, probably the most from the houses in the Reach... but honestly, all the noble houses in Westeros have some royal blood in them. Well then, perhaps that photo of Stannis's wife is her begging not to be toast? That would be a pretty nifty switcheroo...especially if Davos is the one to point it out. "I read in that book your daughter was teaching me to read you have kingsblood too!" *giggles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 According to 'speculation'- Mel is still with Stannis in the episode 10 promo so there is no logical way of her reaching Jon when FTW goes down in that episode. It looks like A) she will leave Stannis in episode 10 but won't get to Jon until next season B ) Jon is not in need of a resurrection because he is only injured, not dead or C) The Night's King or someone/something else will revive him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khorkalba Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 According to 'speculation'- Mel is still with Stannis in the episode 10 promo so there is no logical way of her reaching Jon when FTW goes down in that episode. It looks like A) she will leave Stannis in episode 10 but won't get to Jon until next season B ) Jon is not in need of a resurrection because he is only injured, not dead or C) The Night's King or someone/something else will revive him D) Jon is dead, never to return in any form whatsoever. We find out afterwards who his parents really are, however there's no SuperTarg/AAR transformation. No cliche hero BS. The cliffhanger after FTW was just there to tease fans. I know, I know... wishful thinking that GRRM would ever do something that brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb.69 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Why was the Stannis thread locked? Because the leaked clip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pizza Roll Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Why was the Stannis thread locked? Because the leaked clip? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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