Rant and Rave without Repercussion [Book Spoilers]

[artihcus022]

My main problem is why did they include the Shireen burning at the end of episode 5.

In the Inside videos, they say that George told them...which by the way is the first time the showrunners have outright spoiled the books...but from the context of the books that clearly comes at a much later stage.

Here they take what should be a powerful, dramatic and disturbing scene put it in the middle of the episode and then its of to Meereen to watch Dany ride a dragon...wheeee.

They are poltroons at this point and deserve the lowest contempt.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

I really just don't get this stuff. So...the secret to beating an army is twenty good men so you can go in and burn some tents in a snowstorm? And that's because you know the secrets of the north or something? That was Ramsay's plan? It makes no sense how that was a plan anyone thought up, anyone agreed to, or anyone pulled off. Then there were the Harpies suddenly everywhere in the stadium at the end without being noticed being everywhere. I feel like they'd stand out? And why not bring like more of a guard presence in public with you? And why aren't your guards better fighters? The whole thing doesn't make sense. I hate cutting corners to manufacture false drama, but the most popular TV shows (Walking Dead and this) are so guilty of it.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

I agree. What he did was totally in character for a man who has been willing since day 1 to sacrifice anyone in order to fulfill his ambitions.

I've always argued Stannis is the villain of the series, but he is responsible for Robb's death in my opinion. I bet he does the same thing to Shireen in the books. I wasn't shocked by the turn in the episode at all! Haha.

[teej6]

The more I see the scenes and the more I read the justifications, the most I realise that D&D are simply committing all the misconceptions we often so have to try to debunk here:

Stannis is a crazy fanatic that killed Renly. He could burn anyone

Dany is stupid and so lost and she needs to be saved from herself.

Dorne is boring, it's a filler, it serves no purpose

Cersei is just a victim of patriarchy! She's good!

Sansa is dumb, because of her Ned died, she had everything coming!

Jaime is an irredeemable character! he's a villain!

Tyrion did nothing wrong because his father abused him!

Seriously, how many posts we have here that start just like that? Too many.

Exactly. Dumb and Dumber see the books only as a means to shock the viewers. They kept repeating how they wanted to do the red wedding and if they got to that point in the show, they would be satisfied. They read the books and the red wedding was what interested them most. After that they didn't have any shocking moments of that caliber and they decided to invent some because it seems like that's all their interested in. No matter what they say, I can't believe GRRM will have Stannis, as we see him now in the books, allowing his daughter to be burnt at the stake.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

I don't want to be the one defending this horrendous episode but I think we should hear more from GRRM himself before we completely disregard D&D's reasoning.

I know enough from the published material that what D&D did here will in no way resemble what happens in the books. Stannis and Shireen are very far apart physically and there is no way he will be close to her again in proximity prior to the battle of Winterfell.

And given all the D&D have twisted beyond all recognition I see no reason why I should give them the benefit of the doubt that some how this is the only plot point that they labored to preserve both the form and essence from the books.

[Good Guy Garlan]

I love how D&D love stirring shit so we ignore all the other awful scenes

Like Ellaria. She should be played by Carrie Fisher because that woman has a bipolar disorder (and I should know because I'm bipolar myself)

First she's turns into Lady Macbeth mafioso version and she's all, "Let me send her back to her mother. One finger at a time."

But then she's, "Nah, brah. Myrcella didn't do anything wrong. It's all cool. I'm even down with some incest, know what I mean? This is Dorne, and we have like zero tabooes here. K, bye, my girls are having a slap contest and I'm supposed to be the referee."

And if this was some other show I'd entertain the possibility of that being an act, but D&D have shown us time and time again that their characters are that inconsistent.

[Fox Mulder]

The Shireen burning is making me wonder what I ever saw in this awful show.

It's been getting worse every season. This was the final nail in the coffin of what once was a decent adaptation.

I wouldn't go as far as saying the adaption is awful. But I'm getting there. I would only call myself a half hearted Stannis fan (better than the Lannisters and interesting are the best I could say about him, plus I liked his Jon Snow interactions) before tonight, now i despise him. But I think D&D are being dishonest in laying Shireen getting burned by Stannis at the feet of GRRM. Shireen will be burned sure but I think it will be Melisandre not Stannis that orders it.

I really don't hope that GRRM is losing the magic, ADWD and AFFC along with what we know with WoW has lead me to believe this. Lets face it his books are already all over the place and we have yet to see true Winter or much of the Others. I think the series will feel entirely uneven at this point if there are only 7 books and if there are more I don't think GRRM will ever finish it.

BTW

Ramsays Navy seal gig was absolutely moronic. The guy is a crazy half trained bastard. I never though he was a great warrior or strategist. If Brienne kills Ramsay and Stannis in the show and not in the books I'm going to be pretty pissed at D&D and their blatant favoritism at the cost of the narrative of the story.

[ArabellaVidal]

Before I return to watch how St. Tyrion and Deadpan are going to do, I would like to take a moment to express my feelings for the preceding scene.

:tantrum:

Creatively it made sense to the Dunce Duo because they wanted it to happen.

I'm just so mad. This is what they loved about the books. How they could rape Sansa and burn Shireen. Of course both girls made the choice....

:angry2:

[MegaMagick]

At this point, what am i even watching this show for? To continue to watch misery unfold?

With Stannis now basically going past the point of no return and becoming a full blown villian, any emotional investment i had in the upcoming battle for winterfell is now gone. I mean he burned his daughter for what? To melt the snow!? And he's not even guaranteed any form of success whatsoever. If he just ends up getting thrashed by the Boltons or shanked by Brienne it would've all just be a complete waste.

Anyway, the complete butchering of Stannis is now complete. They had me going for awhile, but now his character is completely irredeemable. And yeah, i'm totally going to root for the Boltons (Ramsay, in particular) now -- the guys who rape and flay people alive just for the heck of it. lol nope.

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

Jafar & Iago don't have the right to the benefit of the doubt anymore. Their creative decisions have been appalling and their statements ludicrous. It is obvious that they either don't know what they're doing or don't care.

These are the guys who said "creatively it made sense because we wanted it to happen" and who joked about wanting to kill off a character even more after he explained to them that it was a bad idea. They're simply not credible sources anymore.

[SerMixalot]

I will keep the jury out of faullauria. I got the sense that she and doran came up with some ploy to use Jaime, shee seemd to have murder still in the back of her eyes

[teej6]

So that's it for the Davos/Stannis relationship coz there's no way Davos is coming back to the Stannis camp after the Shireen burning. But knowing how stupid and inconsistent D&D is perhaps Davos will come back next season to camp Stannis and act like Shireen never existed. And then we can have Davos being burned by Stannis for the shocking moment next season.

[john666]

The show is completely illogical!!

Rambo Ramsey and his twenty Navy Seals deal a crippling blow to Stannis army, how exactly?

We didn't even see how they torched the camp.

The only thing that we saw, was tents "magically" starting to burn.

Jon Snow and his wildlings just happen to appear at the beginning to the episode at the Wall even though it took Jon episode and a half to get to Hardhome!?

How did they do this, with a teleporter device?

But what was absolutely unforgivable was the burning of Shireen.

Sorry, but when did it became "normal", to burn a child alive on screen?

I was somewhat expecting this to happen, but when I was watching it, I had to tone down the sound.

The screaming...

The boundaries of "normal" are being pushed further and further.

Soon in the show you will have scenes of pornographic rape.

In fact do you remember the scene with the child actor who was playing Robert Arryn, with his mouth pressed towards Lysa's breast?

Isn't the fact that the child actors parents consented to him doing this scene, by itself child abuse?

On the part of them and everybody else involved in the filming of this scene?

I think that what this show(and HBO in general) are doing is feeding on and promulgating perversions.

I realize that now, and because of that, I am done with the show.

[HouseHarrison]

-Self-professed book readers defend this show still

I don't get it

[MordredDayne]

I love how D&D love stirring shit so we ignore all the other awful scenes

Like Ellaria. She should be played by Carrie Fisher because that woman has a bipolar disorder (and I should know because I'm bipolar myself)

First she's turns into Lady Macbeth mafioso version and she's all, "Let me send her back to her mother. One finger at a time."

But then she's, "Nah, brah. Myrcella didn't do anything wrong. It's all cool. I'm even down with some incest, know what I mean? This is Dorne, and we have like zero tabooes here. K, bye, my girls are having a slap contest and I'm supposed to be the referee."

And if this was some other show I'd entertain the possibility of that being an act, but D&D have shown us time and time again that their characters are that inconsistent.

:lmao:

Obara was supposed to be the referee, but she was too busy napping and slut shaming Tyene. So much for the Dornish being more sexually tolerant. I think it's also kind of hilarious to have an Oscar nominated guest star on one of the most successful TV shows of all time and have her only line be, "Slut." Quite the accomplishment.

[The Boastful Knight]

Okay, so the Sansa scene in ep6 caused an uproar in this topic and on the interwebz as well (more or less rightfully so), but Stannis burning Shireen? Oh, that's alright, because GRRM told them it happens in the books. So what? First of all, I am as much of a fan of GRRM as anyone here, but even he makes mistakes sometimes. And even if it happens in the books, I'm sure as hell Stannis isn't the one who does it. And I'm sure it will be logical in a storytelling sense and character-wise. With that said, the scene itself was well made, the acting was good, but I cannot express with words how much I hated it. It didn't shock me really, because I was expecting it, but still, I hated it more than anything this season, and it's saying a lot.

Dorne still has no point this season. The actors did a fine job (even Indira Varma wasn't so bad) but they are put in scenes which have no excuse for their existence.

Jon did nothing really, and the whole wildlings arrive at Castle Black scene was a little too short, though I liked the little moment between him and Aliser, I have a feeling that ironically, in the show, he will somehow be the one to save Jon after Olly and the others stab him, since Mel isn't at the wall. Of course this requires Jon to not be harmed fatally, and all this is speculation, so I maybe wrong about it all. But it makes sense. If Aliser wanted Jon dead, why did he let them in?

The Great Pit was fine. The book version is far superior, with the tension it creates. This just felt flat, like I wasn't really on the edge of my seat, since I knew that at the very least St. Tyrion and Dany would survive (and Drogon, of course). Oh by the way, our favourite saint managed to save Missandei, so he filled his quota of doing only good deeds every episode. And I guess we can say goodbye to both the "harpies are all part of Daario's masterplan" and the "Hizdahr is behind it all" fan theories. But that's OK, Daario might still be Euron in disguise.

[R4W13Y]

Speaking of Fauxllaria being incredibly inconsistent...when she dumped the wine. Isn't that sign of extreme disrespect going to offend Jaime in some way? I mean, that's towards the King, his son, his family. Then the next scene they're bonding over sexual perversions? I just don't get any of Dorne at all :dunno:

[Good Guy Garlan]

:lmao:

Obara was supposed to be the referee, but she was too busy napping and slut shaming Tyene. So much for the Dornish being more sexually tolerant. I think it's also kind of hilarious to have an Oscar nominated guest star on one of the most successful TV shows of all time and have her only line be, "Slut." Quite the accomplishment.

Right? But that was actually the only thing I liked about the episode, because:

a) I imagined that a smarter writer would make her slut shaming be a part of her character because of the chip on the shoulder she has about her mother being a prostitute, so that single line could've told us a lot about a developed character

and

b ) because she uttered a two syllable word instead of her entire life story, so that's good

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

Who would win in a fight, Ramsay's twenty good men or the Three Hundred Spartans?

[Andrea9281]

The circumstances leading up to Shireen were so flimsy. Ramsay sneaks into the dead of night, and using what I can only assume to be pyrokinesis, sets half the tents on fire without the viewer managing to spot even a single Bolton man. There is no explanation for this plot, and no explanation for why an acclaimed military commander like Stannis doesn't have watchmen and patrols. Furthermore the area they were camped in is relatively enclosed and they've been there for at least an episode prior, so it isn't like they hit them when they were actually moving. Accepting that Ramsay, a commander with no significant accomplishments on the battlefield, could sneak into and destroy a camp lead by supposedly a great leader, is quite a leap. Furthermore, to go from a relatively setback like this, especially after what he has been through in the past to killing his daughter after he has vehemently argued against it previously and reinforced his love for her on at least one previous occassion just doesn't make sense. They didn't do nearly enough to make this feel like a needed and logical (even in a weird sort of way) step for someone who loves his daughter and wants her on the throne should he die.

Also a leap: the entire Harpy Rebellion scene. It was comical how slowly that scene unfolded, from the Harpies' strange fixation on single combat, to the Designated Stop and Stare moments, to Dany riding off and leaving her friends to die. Even Hizdahr just randomly dying as he points to the exit made no sense. We've had no development of this character, and he's supposed to represent a signficant sacrifice for Dany and demonstrate the importantance of compromise. Here he is quickly slaughtered so Dany can go back to seducing people and marry Tyrion or whatever nonsense.