I'm sorry, but they really blew the Drogon scene (book spoilers)

[boojam]

One thing.

A lot of people noted there was no nudity in episode 9.

But...Drogon was totally nude all the time!

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

Did anyone else notice the CGI when Drogon flies in? It looked like a SciFi or SyFy whatever it is now movie. I only noticed on the rewatch and to be fair I was looking for shit i hadn't noticed the first time I watched it. D&D in the after show thingy said that was a scene for a major motion picture and wondered how they were going to do it being its a TV show. Weiss also said he emailed George after he read the scene in aDwD and was awestruck at the scene. Surely he knew this was eventually going to happen right, dragon riders?

[ummester]

It still looks crappy, though. I wish there were a better way to do it.

There is a better way - it's what I keep saying. Like the raptors in Jurassic World - you show the emotion with overall body movements - head tilts, spines becoming erect or flat and so on. You study real world animals that respond to the environment with their body parts and not their face and base the animation on that.

[robasp2]

There is a better way - it's what I keep saying. Like the raptors in Jurassic World - you show the emotion with overall body movements - head tilts, spines becoming erect or flat and so on. You study real world animals that respond to the environment with their body parts and not their face and base the animation on that.

The making of Vfx for season 3(youtube video), I guess it was SPIN vfx company.

They studied various animals and repltiles to model his body and movements.

His expressions also came out better back in Astapor.

Rodeo vfx however has been doing a lazy job with dragons.

Agreed. People saying drogon was epic should see new Jurassic world. The quality and expressions is what today's technology can create. HOWEVER with a budget almost 1/12 of it, I guess this was quite acceptable.

[Rise Above]

Drogon looked and acted pretty cool. They made Dany look like a useless dork. She's so boring in the show.

[ummester]

The making of Vfx for season 3(youtube video), I guess it was SPIN vfx company.

They studied various animals and repltiles to model his body and movements.

His expressions also came out better back in Astapor.

Rodeo vfx however has been doing a lazy job with dragons.

Agreed. People saying drogon was epic should see new Jurassic world. The quality and expressions is what today's technology can create. HOWEVER with a budget almost 1/12 of it, I guess this was quite acceptable.

But it's not really about budget - less is more. The whole Drogon scene would have been better without the 5-10 seconds of facial animation and emoting.

I thought Drogon looked fine in every scene apart from the facial closeups when he was emoting at Dany. I'm not referencing Jurassic World because the CG was obviously more expensive and flawless, I'm referencing it because they animated dinosaurs interacting with and responding to humans without goofy and out of place facial animation.

[robasp2]

But it's not really about budget - less is more. The whole Drogon scene would have been better without the 5-10 seconds of facial animation and emoting.

I thought Drogon looked fine in every scene apart from the facial closeups when he was emoting at Dany. I'm not referencing Jurassic World because the CG was obviously more expensive and flawless, I'm referencing it because they animated dinosaurs interacting with and responding to humans without goofy and out of place facial animation.

Ok I guess I misunderstood you there.

My point on pixomondo being >>> than rodeo vfx still stands though.

Because pixomondo did do extensive real wold analysis for dragon behaviour.

Read a short interview here

http://www.itsartmag.com/features/making-of-game-of-thrones-season-3-pixomondo/

I am damn sure rodeo never did any homework on dragon behavior. I also believe some shots didnt have reality due to poor vfx coordination.

(I frkkin loved how S3 sfx guys aced the dragon on a chain.

They used a real crane and chain

Real "believable" dragon breath

Real exlposions behind dany

Compare it to Obara throwing her spear at a cartoony head in S5. Uhh.)

[ummester]

Ok I guess I misunderstood you there.

My point on pixomondo being >>> than rodeo vfx still stands though.

Because pixomondo did do extensive real wold analysis for dragon behaviour.

Read a short interview here

http://www.itsartmag.com/features/making-of-game-of-thrones-season-3-pixomondo/

I am damn sure rodeo never did any homework on dragon behavior. I also believe some shots didnt have reality due to poor vfx coordination.

(I frkkin loved how S3 sfx guys aced the dragon on a chain.

They used a real crane and chain

Real "believable" dragon breath

Real exlposions behind dany

Compare it to Obara throwing her spear at a cartoony head in S5. Uhh.)

Just watched the video and read the article - Yea, those dragons were superior, no doubt. Drogon's eye design has totally changed for season 5. Season 4 was still Piximondo and it still looks good, Notice in this video they are providing Drogon's emotes exactly the way I suggested, with horns flaring/relaxing and so on - not so much via out of place facial expression.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssJwFjyS7q8

Rodeo did the VFX for that decidedly average film Lucy, which had one of the worst CG dinosaurs ever- Lucy spoilers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh2TvzeZxrg

And you are correct, a few of the FX shots have looked off this season, compared to others. I've actually made fairly constant comments in the Rant and Rage thread about certain CG elements looking shit this year.

Did Rodeo definately do the Drogon scenes in season 5? I didn't realize GoTs changed VFX companies for season 5 Drogon and, if so, it would probably explain my issues this season - I'm just noticing the different artistic styles and finding the current one out of place to what I had gotten used to - and, as you note, inferior. The big question, if they did change, why???? Why change something that is working well?

[ser naes yennet]

The mere fact that it has been strongly suggested that Shireen will be burned doesn't make it okay that it happened FOR NO REASON and as viewers we were emotionally manipulated thanks to the scene earlier this season when Stannis gave her a big emotional speech about his devotion to her!

There were other options for Stannis. It wasn't a last resort. It was stupid and manipulative to have him go against his own words when there were other options.

And then having decided to kill her off in such ridiculous circumstances, they didn't even have the decency and respect to let the audience properly mourn for her, cutting instead to a cheering crowd. Horrible!

The big finale in Meereen suffered as a consequence.

why wouldn't leeches work again? they were good enough for Gendry? and that killed 3 kings, so why wouldn't it be enough now? for just some help with the weather?

[Dolorous Gabe]

why wouldn't leeches work again? they were good enough for Gendry? and that killed 3 kings, so why wouldn't it be enough now? for just some help with the weather?

Balon Greyjoy is not dead yet in the show.

[Dolorous Gabe]

why wouldn't leeches work again? they were good enough for Gendry? and that killed 3 kings, so why wouldn't it be enough now? for just some help with the weather?

Balon Greyjoy is not dead yet in the show.

And also, if they wanted king's blood options available to them, they had Aemon and Mance as options at the Wall and also could have brought along the preserved foetuses that Selyse kept of her and Stannis' stillborn children, which were established back in season 3 for apparently no reason other than establishing Selyse's weirdness.

Anyway, this is off topic. Apologies.

[Philpenn]

Not sure why Drogon first appears out of a huge fireball.

[Prince_Snow]

Not sure why Drogon first appears out of a huge fireball.

It makes a very nice visual effect to get people excited, and also it might be because when dragons attack they spit fire to impress, scare, terrorize ennemies before the battle to have a psychological advantage, a strategic move if you want.

[ummester]

It reminded me of the Phoenix in that old cartoon Battle of the Planets - 5 young orphans protecting the galaxy.

Actually, Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Bran, Arya - 5 young orphans. Oh fuck, GoTS is ripping of Battle of the Planets :D

[Crastors Child]

At some point towards the end of the pit fight scene, the doors should have opened to have the remaining pit fighters spill into the arena to fight for Dany and her few remaining Unsullied.

Renouned pit fighters such as Strong Belwas, (my favourite support character ever) The Spotted Cat and Khrazz (all from the book) could have been introduced and have them tear into the Sons of the Harpy ranks to help save the day.

Many masked amateurs with mostly long knives for up close butchery and a couple of gold coins in their pocket, versus 2 dozen seasoned gladiators with all the tools of their trade, glory in their eyes and the queens favour up for grabs would have improved the final fight scene.

[storm.131]

I will quote myself :

Was wondering about the Harpys who were left.

I notice in the last long shot, a helicopter shot, there is only a small group of figures left , if you subtract the four team Dany plus(I am counting Unsullied too, yes there are some left) , there are maybe 5 or 6 (or less) Harpys directly in the take off path, in the ground shot they are all doing the run-away-run-away thing. Seems no SoH were left in the arena after she exited.

Would have been nice in the another long shot we see that the Harpys have run away, but they are doing that in that ground medium shot.y'

It doesn't really matter how many were still in the arena. Dany's entourage still had to make their way back to the pyramid. Are we to believe the countless Sons of the Harpy ran away and hid under their beds to allow Dany's mates to walk back to safety? The writing was just ridiculous.

Also, getting back to the fighting, it occurred to the Sons of the Harpy to throw spears at Drogon but it didn't occur to them to throw spears at Dany and her friends? Again, ridiculous, as often happens when D&D depart from the books and make up their own stories. They should have stuck to the story as written by GRRM where it was the professional fighters who attacked Drogon, not a horde of Sons of the Harpy who multiply like rabbits one moment, then disappear the next.

I was similarly annoyed by the stupidity of Hardhome. One minute the wights were swarming all over the place like flies on a cow pat, but then for Jon's duel with the White Walker, the area was cleared for their choreographed dance of swords and lo and behold, Jon and his friends got away even though they were outnumbered by about a million to one.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy show because of the character development, dialogue and more intimate scenes, but I am deeply disappointed at how poorly thought out a lot of the big action sequences are. I actually preferred how in earlier seasons the battles were off screen and we only saw the lead up and aftermath.

[storm.131]

Where did Drogon's spines go when Dany mounted him? Can someone who loved the scene explain that to me?

Personally, I didn't mind it - apart from they did the stupid puppy dog thing with Drogon's face again. The range of emotion they are trying to give this dragon feels a bit zany - I watched Jurassic World last night and the human/raptor relationship in that is much closer to how the Dany/Drogon relationship should be portrayed, without trying to do it on Drogon's face.

I think she "docked" herself onto the spikes... When there's no saddle or reins, one has to improvise. LOL

[Remington]

I for one found this scene truly exciting and thrilling, even more plausible than the scene as written in the book. Mind you it has been some time since I read Dance with Dragons so my memory of details is rather fuzzy. One of the things I preferred as a plot line in the book to the show is that Dany’s husband apparently has planned her death by poison and is still around after her escape. In the show of course he is killed and was apparently not her enemy. In the book there seems to be no rationale of why Drogon appears other than perhaps he was hungry and needed a snack.

In the show as suggested by the executive producers in the after the show segment Drogon as a non sentient creature has a symbiotic relationship with Dany and views her as his mother. Throughout his existence Dany has certainly treated him in such fashion to reinforce that notion of a parental bond. Because Drogon is non sentient it is easy to believe that he is instinctually aware of his “mother’s” peril and hence his arrival to rescue her seems reasonable in the story line.

Drogon’s arrival is catharsis for the viewer as just before Dany and Missandei are holding hands resigned to accepting their fate of imminent death. But Dany looks up and sees the fiery Drogon arriving and so the viewer can heave a sigh of relief. Dany mounts Drogon not for fear of her life and effecting an escape. Instead she is fearful for Drogon as the dragon seems to have taken in one spear too many and is starting to get the worst of the battle. Sensing that Drogon will not leave while she is still in danger Dany has no option but to climb onto Drogon’s back and flee to safety before Drogon gets another perhaps fatal spear thrust at him.

With Drogon flying away with Dany on its back we see inter alia Tyrion staring up mesmerized by the sight. You will recall that at the beginning of the season Tyrion is in a state of despair having killed both his father and lover in the previous season. He certainly seemed intent on wasting his life away by drinking and whoring. Now given the undeniable magical charisma of Daenerys Targaryen evident to Tyrion his life has meaningful purpose again as he is ensconced in her entourage.

Since dragons are not reality creative people have no paradigm for visualizing a battle scene involving such creatures. For that reason I’ve no quarrel with the fighting action of the scene. To my mind with this scene coupled with the preceding scene of the burning of Princess Shireen makes this episode one of the most compelling and gut wrenching episodes in the entire series.

[boojam]

It doesn't really matter how many were still in the arena.  Dany's entourage still had to make their way back to the pyramid.  Are we to believe the countless Sons of the Harpy ran away and hid under their beds to allow Dany's mates to walk back to safety?  The writing was just ridiculous.

We don't know there were 'countless' Harpys left.
The target of the Harpys was gone so not much reason to stick around.
It would have been nice to have shown about a 1000 Unsullied near or around the stadium , after all there are still approximately 8000 left!
(Where do they stay?)
In the earlier 'angry crowd' sequence , episode 2, seems there are at least a thousand Unsullied protecting Dany.
Not too much to imagine with the commotion that a large group of Unsullied have made for the Pit and protect the escape of the survivors.

One thing that does not make a lot of sense in the Pit sequence, supposedly all the fans were not ex-slaves but 'middle class' Meereeniese?
Not necessarily allies of the SoH but surely sympathetic , after all they wanted the games back.
So why were the SoH attacking them?

[boojam]

I think she "docked" herself onto the spikes...  When there's no saddle or reins, one has to improvise. LOL

Emilia does do a quick double take , kind of funny, when she spots those spines!

It was interesting to find out that Dany always wears her faux Dothraki 'riding britches' under gowns and such, with her faux Dothraki books in case she has to 'ride' something!