Dragon in the North Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 On February 10, 2016 at 4:52 PM, Titties and Dragons said: If it walks like a plothole, smells like a plothole, and fucks like a plothole, then it's definitely a plothole. All it takes to see them is not to be a D&D fanboy. No, all it takes is to understand what the term plot hole actually means. That word is constantly misused on this board due to outright ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 There are a few unknowns that really cannot be explained to detail one way or the other and it will drive us a mad to try and do so. Like the military numbers Bolton had vs Stannis, were they all Bolton and loyal to Bolton houses or were they some of Stanni's own deserters turned sides (the sellswords)? No point at this point, the table was set to show Stannis had no Northern house support and lost over half of his men due to Starvation, elements and burning his kid + all the horses except the one Mel obviously keeps in her tent for some nefarious reasons I presume. Battle fought and is over. Next season, tables will be set again and a nother battle will be fought. I understand that the books will be able to give us more detail in numbers of strength but the show will simply set the scenario before it plays out and the raw numbers and who brings them will not be as detailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis is the man....nis Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 22 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said: There are a few unknowns that really cannot be explained to detail one way or the other and it will drive us a mad to try and do so. Like the military numbers Bolton had vs Stannis, were they all Bolton and loyal to Bolton houses or were they some of Stanni's own deserters turned sides (the sellswords)? No point at this point, the table was set to show Stannis had no Northern house support and lost over half of his men due to Starvation, elements and burning his kid + all the horses except the one Mel obviously keeps in her tent for some nefarious reasons I presume. Battle fought and is over. Next season, tables will be set again and a nother battle will be fought. I understand that the books will be able to give us more detail in numbers of strength but the show will simply set the scenario before it plays out and the raw numbers and who brings them will not be as detailed. Exactly and the thing s no one really here (an certainly not me) is demanding that last season get everything from the WF just put Wyman and his army in WF, the Umbers/Karstarks with Stannis at least show us some Northerns are invested n a siege of WF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raksha 2014 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 18 hours ago, Stannis is the man....nis said: -You clearly missed the point as both me and ghost were making, not enough time has passed between 5-6 to pull the "not organized" card if they are ready to go this year they were ready to go last year -So just sit it out? How many shots are they going to get at Roose? Here's a hint not many; he lives inside a big castle and is supported by the crown, so when the "best military commander in Westeros" asks for help it is stupid to everyone to pass up -As far as both the Northerns in the book and show know the Starks are gone, Sansa and Arya have vanished, Bran and Rickon are "dead", and Jon is a bastard of the Nights Watch so wanting for s Stark when as far as they know they are gone is stupid Surely the surviving non-Bolton Northern lords in the TV show know that Sansa Stark is alive. How would her marriage to Ramsay benefit House Bolton if they didn't announce the marriage of the Bolton heir to the supposedly only surviving Stark to the rest of the North, via raven? Hopefully there will actually be some anti-Bolton activity on the show this year. I just hope TV-Sansa isn't pregnant by Ramsay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 12 hours ago, Raksha 2014 said: Surely the surviving non-Bolton Northern lords in the TV show know that Sansa Stark is alive. How would her marriage to Ramsay benefit House Bolton if they didn't announce the marriage of the Bolton heir to the supposedly only surviving Stark to the rest of the North, via raven? Hopefully there will actually be some anti-Bolton activity on the show this year. I just hope TV-Sansa isn't pregnant by Ramsay... If you look at the one photo, her right arm is not inside of her dress but the cloak. The left arm looked like it was under her dress accross her stomach. It is a lumb but not a roundish baby bump. However, we did not know if we can rule out her possbile pregnancy or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustavo Fringed Sleeves Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I understand the term "plot hole". So thanks for trying to enlighten us all, but no thanks. On 02/12/2016 at 6:24 PM, Dragon in the North said: No, all it takes is to understand what the term plot hole actually means. That word is constantly misused on this board due to outright ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aFeastForDragons Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I can't wait for shirtless Ramsey and his 20 good men to defeat the White Walkers On a serious note the battle in S5 for WInterfell was a largely pointless plothole ridden inconsistent mess so I wonder how they get the audience invested again, it just looks like another Mereen situation thats dragged on way to long. On the plus side they can't butcher Stannis's story anymore. I'm really struggling to see how they can start tying up the story or at least move it along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 27 minutes ago, aFeastForDragons said: I can't wait for shirtless Ramsey and his 20 good men to defeat the White Walkers On a serious note the battle in S5 for WInterfell was a largely pointless plothole ridden inconsistent mess so I wonder how they get the audience invested again, it just looks like another Mereen situation thats dragged on way to long. On the plus side they can't butcher Stannis's story anymore. I'm really struggling to see how they can start tying up the story or at least move it along. Why do you think the audience will have trouble being invested? They aren't the usual book readers who obsess about detail and have a strange crushes on military generals. Your average viewer will have no problem at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 31 minutes ago, aFeastForDragons said: I can't wait for shirtless Ramsey and his 20 good men to defeat the White Walkers On a serious note the battle in S5 for WInterfell was a largely pointless plothole ridden inconsistent mess so I wonder how they get the audience invested again, it just looks like another Mereen situation thats dragged on way to long. On the plus side they can't butcher Stannis's story anymore. I'm really struggling to see how they can start tying up the story or at least move it along. They will make it a tear jerker about Rickon, to distract from the obvious and abundant plot holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aFeastForDragons Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 2 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said: Why do you think the audience will have trouble being invested? They aren't the usual book readers who obsess about detail and have a strange crushes on military generals. Your average viewer will have no problem at all. There was a huge drop in interest with the Winterfell story after Shireen was burned. I saw hundreds of comments and posts over youtube/facebook about how they didn't care anymore about the Winterfell story and even less when nothing changed and both Boltons were still alive. I'm not sure if people remember but there was huge negativity at S5 before the Hardhome episode with people saying it was boring and slow. Another Battle of Winterfell and more Harpy problems in Mereen are only going to kick of S6 to a slow start again. 2 hours ago, Le Cygne said: They will make it a tear jerker about Rickon, to distract from the obvious and abundant plot holes. That kid probably has a beard now. I wonder how they will hook Davos up with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 1 hour ago, aFeastForDragons said: There was a huge drop in interest with the Winterfell story after Shireen was burned. I saw hundreds of comments and posts over youtube/facebook about how they didn't care anymore about the Winterfell story and even less when nothing changed and both Boltons were still alive. I'm not sure if people remember but there was huge negativity at S5 before the Hardhome episode with people saying it was boring and slow. Another Battle of Winterfell and more Harpy problems in Mereen are only going to kick of S6 to a slow start again. From the comments I've seen, interest only dropped because people didn't care about the outcome of the battle anymore after Stannis burned Shireen. If Jon ends up leading a host against the Boltons, I think people will be more invested and interested because they actually like Jon and wish him to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 1 hour ago, aFeastForDragons said: There was a huge drop in interest with the Winterfell story after Shireen was burned. I saw hundreds of comments and posts over youtube/facebook about how they didn't care anymore about the Winterfell story and even less when nothing changed and both Boltons were still alive. I'm not sure if people remember but there was huge negativity at S5 before the Hardhome episode with people saying it was boring and slow. Another Battle of Winterfell and more Harpy problems in Mereen are only going to kick of S6 to a slow start again. Less a drop in interest in the WF story, but a drop in interest in Stannis vs Bolton story. On one side we have a tragic villain who burned daughter, on the other, psycho villains. Audience couldn't root for either side, which reduces interest in the battle. Going by casting, the show is going to bring in other northern lords in season 6. Assuming Jon returns and gets involved, northern storyline should pick up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
of man and wolf Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 On 2/13/2016 at 1:55 PM, Dragon in the North said: From the comments I've seen, interest only dropped because people didn't care about the outcome of the battle anymore after Stannis burned Shireen. If Jon ends up leading a host against the Boltons, I think people will be more invested and interested because they actually like Jon and wish him to succeed. Exactly. The North is what propels this story imo. People will always be invested in the Starks and their bitter enemies. The betrayers are in Winterfell...having Stannis lead the charge against them wasn't truly what people wanted..except maybe some book readers...but hey, I'm a book reader too and would much prefer to watch true Northmen seek their vengeance. People will complain all the time, much like in the R and R thread in here, yet they'll watch all the same. Some might have lost a bit of interest but most are just talk. They'll see a tease and then a trailer and be all over it once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion92 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I don't know, I actually enjoy the fact that it is Stannis who liberates the North from Boltons. He OWES Ned Stark his throne, if it was not for Ned I doubt Stannis would have any claim to the Throne. It is Stannis' duty as a king to return Winterfell to Ned's kids. Baratheon-Stark friendship always fascinated me to be honest, it is ingrained in their mutual history when Bran the Builder helped to raise Storm's End for Durran Godsgrief, whose female line lives on through Baratheons. Currently in the books Starks are unable to depose Boltons on their own, they need their closest outside allies in Baratheons and their own loyal bannermen to deal with their centuries long rivals. I hate that the show ruined the idea of Stannis defeating Boltons, it was the hardest fuckup on D&D's part for me last season, even though I understand all the story reasons for TV show to have STARK (in this case Jon) depose Boltons, not Stannis. Shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis is the man....nis Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 28 minutes ago, Scorpion92 said: I don't know, I actually enjoy the fact that it is Stannis who liberates the North from Boltons. He OWES Ned Stark his throne, if it was not for Ned I doubt Stannis would have any claim to the Throne. It is Stannis' duty as a king to return Winterfell to Ned's kids. Baratheon-Stark friendship always fascinated me to be honest, it is ingrained in their mutual history when Bran the Builder helped to raise Storm's End for Durran Godsgrief, whose female line lives on through Baratheons. Currently in the books Starks are unable to depose Boltons on their own, they need their closest outside allies in Baratheons and their own loyal bannermen to deal with their centuries long rivals. I hate that the show ruined the idea of Stannis defeating Boltons, it was the hardest fuckup on D&D's part for me last season, even though I understand all the story reasons for TV show to have STARK (in this case Jon) depose Boltons, not Stannis. Shame! Plus I would like to point out that GOT whole appeal according to critics has been it's "harsh realism" or "LOTR with a brain" I heard once. So what is "realistic" "Ned's bastard" rallying the North to him in this big romantic showdown with the Boltons or "the best military mind in the country" using Ned's name/memory to rally disgruntled Northerns against Roose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 12 hours ago, Scorpion92 said: I don't know, I actually enjoy the fact that it is Stannis who liberates the North from Boltons. He OWES Ned Stark his throne, if it was not for Ned I doubt Stannis would have any claim to the Throne. It is Stannis' duty as a king to return Winterfell to Ned's kids. Baratheon-Stark friendship always fascinated me to be honest, it is ingrained in their mutual history when Bran the Builder helped to raise Storm's End for Durran Godsgrief, whose female line lives on through Baratheons. Currently in the books Starks are unable to depose Boltons on their own, they need their closest outside allies in Baratheons and their own loyal bannermen to deal with their centuries long rivals. I hate that the show ruined the idea of Stannis defeating Boltons, it was the hardest fuckup on D&D's part for me last season, even though I understand all the story reasons for TV show to have STARK (in this case Jon) depose Boltons, not Stannis. Shame! Its not like Stannis was doing any of it cos he's such a great guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 He was doing it because he understood the true threat and intended to protect the kingdom from it, thereby earning his rights doing his duty. In the books, anyway, fuck knows what happened in s5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farerb Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Stannis won't be the one to win Winterfell from the Boltons in the books as well. It's not his story, it's the Starks'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Stannis is not and never was my favorite character, books or show. Yes, under the laws of Westeros and the consequences of the "justified" rebellion let by Robert, Ned and Jon Arryn, he was Robert's true heir and true King of Westeros. However, he is flawed like anyone else but in the worst ways under his circumstances, his diplomatic skills. Of course, Renly was a prick, swayed by the sleazy and two faced Tyrells into betraying everyone which hurt Stannis once and wrecked him at the Blackwater. Still, Stannis has too harsh of a personality and it bites him in the end, no compromise, no offerings to potential allies, just demmands. This ruined him on the show, along with his devotion to Mel and the "daring" of Ramsay the Great and 20 Good Men. Bookwise, there is hope, show, none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 1 hour ago, The Drunkard said: He was doing it because he understood the true threat and intended to protect the kingdom from it, thereby earning his rights doing his duty. In the books, anyway, fuck knows what happened in s5. I still think this is debatable, and its a matter of taking his words at face value. I still feel he was primarily motivated by his own sense that the iron throne was his right, and that Westeros can only be saved by him being in charge. He certainly isn't some great hero or 'good guy' But either way, he was never going to be the one to unite north or defeat the Boltons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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