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Small Questions v. 10105

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2 hours ago, Nissa said:

I have to order everything but the World of Ice and Fire. I havn't started that one yet- it's next :) 

You should read the other ones first to avoid any spoilers in TWOIAF. 

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

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Can anyone direct me to something that explains the point of the Black Gate at Nightfort?

I always had trouble accepting this as something part of the Planteos world. It just sticks out to me as an element from another fantasy story all together. Somewhere between Neverending Story and Way of Kings.

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2 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Can anyone direct me to something that explains the point of the Black Gate at Nightfort?

I always had trouble accepting this as something part of the Planteos world. It just sticks out to me as an element from another fantasy story all together. Somewhere between Neverending Story and Way of Kings.

They had to get Bran the Broken through somehow. It reminded me of the doorknob in Alice in Wonderland. Also the taste of salt in the tear reminded us that salt is an element in the promised prince prophecy, so that Bowen's tears might help to satisfy the prophecy as to Jon Snow. And it gives us a little more on the magic of the CotF in warding walls and caves and such. 

That's all I got. 

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3 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

They had to get Bran the Broken through somehow. It reminded me of the doorknob in Alice in Wonderland. Also the taste of salt in the tear reminded us that salt is an element in the promised prince prophecy, so that Bowen's tears might help to satisfy the prophecy as to Jon Snow. And it gives us a little more on the magic of the CotF in warding walls and caves and such. 

That's all I got. 

Oooh yes. I agree with this one :thumbsup:

But did it have to be a talking door? I could see if it required a "spell" or something that could have come to Jojen is a dream, or if there was a weird weirwood growing that seemed to point them in the right way, etc.

Oh well. Thanks again LM :cheers:

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Is anywhere in the various texts a musing/theory put forth as to how dragon's breathe fire? I think I remember somewhere a theory that they had down their gullet like a fiery box or heart from where the flame originated, but I can not find it, it might be I'm getting confused with some other story.

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can someone tell me why didn't they name Tyrion Warden of the North (when all the Starks are dead) because by then, Tyrion had already married Sansa. I mean the reason Tryion married Sansa is because the Lannisters wanted control of the North.

Instead, they rather name Roose Bolton Warden?

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A question for native speakers;

The app states that Sunspear is also known as the Old Palace. The term "Old Palace" is indeed used in the books, however, it is at several points described as "Old Palace of Sunspear".

To me, those two sound a bit contradictory (with the second statement indicating that the Old Palace is part of Sunspear). So could someone tell me, whether "Sunspear, also known as the Old Palace", and "the Old Palace of Sunspear" indeed mean the same thing, or whether they are indeed contradictory?

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25 minutes ago, dantares83 said:

can someone tell me why didn't they name Tyrion Warden of the North (when all the Starks are dead) because by then, Tyrion had already married Sansa. I mean the reason Tryion married Sansa is because the Lannisters wanted control of the North.

Instead, they rather name Roose Bolton Warden?

Part of the Red Wedding deal and a Lannister always pays his debts.

I would not put it past Tywin to understand that Boltons would neither ever control the North for real nor for a longer period, so Sansa-Tyrion is the Lannisters' second lever on the North, wheras the Boltons are only interim, but necessary.

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28 minutes ago, dantares83 said:

can someone tell me why didn't they name Tyrion Warden of the North (when all the Starks are dead) because by then, Tyrion had already married Sansa. I mean the reason Tryion married Sansa is because the Lannisters wanted control of the North.

Instead, they rather name Roose Bolton Warden?

 

Just now, Jon Weirgaryen said:

Part of the Red Wedding deal and a Lannister always pays his debts.

I would not put it past Tywin to understand that Boltons would neither ever control the North for real nor for a longer period, so Sansa-Tyrion is the Lannisters' second lever on the North, wheras the Boltons are only interim, but necessary.

Indeed,

“Perhaps Littlefinger succeeded where you and Varys failed. Lord Bolton will wed the girl to his bastard son. We shall allow the Dreadfort to fight the ironborn for a few years, and see if he can bring Stark’s other bannermen to heel. Come spring, all of them should be at the end of their strength and ready to bend the knee. The north will go to your son by Sansa Stark... if you ever find enough manhood in you to breed one. Lest you forget, it is not only Joffrey who must needs take a maidenhead.”

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27 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

A question for native speakers;

The app states that Sunspear is also known as the Old Palace. The term "Old Palace" is indeed used in the books, however, it is at several points described as "Old Palace of Sunspear".

To me, those two sound a bit contradictory (with the second statement indicating that the Old Palace is part of Sunspear). So could someone tell me, whether "Sunspear, also known as the Old Palace", and "the Old Palace of Sunspear" indeed mean the same thing, or whether they are indeed contradictory?

I don't think they're contradictory. Maybe just a little imprecise. 

I think Sunspear technically includes the Sandship and the Old Palace (which counter intuitively is newer than the Sandship.) But people probably sometimes use Sunspear to refer to just the Old Palace itself, depending on how much use the Sandship gets these days and how close it is to the Old Palace. 

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1 hour ago, dantares83 said:

can someone tell me why didn't they name Tyrion Warden of the North (when all the Starks are dead) because by then, Tyrion had already married Sansa. I mean the reason Tryion married Sansa is because the Lannisters wanted control of the North.

Instead, they rather name Roose Bolton Warden?

Naming Bolton Warden of the North was part of Tywin's strategy...

Quote

Some battles are won with swords and spears, others with quills and ravens.

The deals were negotiated in code via Walder Frey...

Quote

I pray for you morn, noon, and night, my sweet lord, and count the days until you share my bed again. Return to me soon, and I will give you many trueborn sons to take the place of your dear Domeric and rule the Dreadfort after you.

 

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

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49 minutes ago, Jon Weirgaryen said:

Part of the Red Wedding deal and a Lannister always pays his debts.

I would not put it past Tywin to understand that Boltons would neither ever control the North for real nor for a longer period, so Sansa-Tyrion is the Lannisters' second lever on the North, wheras the Boltons are only interim, but necessary.

hmm... 

i mean they could still have name Tyrion "Warden of the North", send him and Sansa back north, and then wait for Sansa to give birth to any heir, wouldn't that make more sense? At least they dont have to denounce the Boltons later. 

yeah, Tyrion may have zero connection to the north but they named Jaime as Warden of the East for a short period as well.

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1 hour ago, dantares83 said:

hmm... 

i mean they could still have name Tyrion "Warden of the North", send him and Sansa back north, and then wait for Sansa to give birth to any heir, wouldn't that make more sense? At least they dont have to denounce the Boltons later. 

yeah, Tyrion may have zero connection to the north but they named Jaime as Warden of the East for a short period as well.

Yes, they could have, but that would have meant that the Lannisters themselves would have had to deal with the problems in the North, during the upcoming problematic winter, whilst they have multiple other challanges to stay busy with. This way, they can sent someone to fix those issues for them, and still take the North after the winter is done and spring has begun, and have a Lannister/Stark child inherit.

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1 hour ago, dantares83 said:

hmm... 

i mean they could still have name Tyrion "Warden of the North", send him and Sansa back north, and then wait for Sansa to give birth to any heir, wouldn't that make more sense? At least they dont have to denounce the Boltons later. 

yeah, Tyrion may have zero connection to the north but they named Jaime as Warden of the East for a short period as well.

You are assuming Roose approached Tywin. I think it was the other way round. If Tywin hadn't given Roose what he wanted, Roose could have just gone back north with Robb. Roose betrayed Robb after he read Fat Walda's letter but before he learned that Robb had wed Jeyne. 

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

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2 hours ago, RumHam said:

I don't think they're contradictory. Maybe just a little imprecise. 

I think Sunspear technically includes the Sandship and the Old Palace (which counter intuitively is newer than the Sandship.) But people probably sometimes use Sunspear to refer to just the Old Palace itself, depending on how much use the Sandship gets these days and how close it is to the Old Palace. 

Ok, thanks! :)

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Is there any indication of whether the Wall and Nights Watch can be used by someone as a refuge? Say someone commits a crime and for whatever reason, maybe they committed a crime they expect to he executed on the spot as a result of, they flee of their own free will to the Wall. Could they still be pursued there and handed over? Would saying the vows "free" them from whatever their lord or king intended?

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1 hour ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Is there any indication of whether the Wall and Nights Watch can be used by someone as a refuge? Say someone commits a crime and for whatever reason, maybe they committed a crime they expect to he executed on the spot as a result of, they flee of their own free will to the Wall. Could they still be pursued there and handed over? Would saying the vows "free" them from whatever their lord or king intended?

Well criminals are supposed to be able to choose the Wall over other punishment, so I suppose really it would make sense that they can voluntarily go there instead of waiting to face trial for their crimes. I suspect if it was some really awful crime, or politically significant crime, the NW would hand them back over though

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I don't think they would necessarily hand anyone back. It would probably depend on the Lord Commander and how much pressure was applied. Yoren wouldn't turn Gendry over to the queen, and Gendry hadn't even said the vows yet.

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