Danny+Greyjoys+Dorne+Tyrells = Overkill?

[aceluby]

14 hours ago, Ice Spider said:

Yes I know Varys was in Dorne, but during that conversation was Dany ever brought up?

He literally says that he's offering 'fire and blood'.  You know.... the Targaryan words....

[Ice Spider]

3 hours ago, aceluby said:

He literally says that he's offering 'fire and blood'.  You know.... the Targaryan words....

I understand all that. I understand that Dany now has ships from the Tyrells and from Dorne.

But

Either Dany is the Show's biggest hypocrite

Or she is using these forces as a means to an end.

Dany constantly makes her " I am going to make the World a better place" speech. How, by aligning with someone that murdered an innocent child? Seems a little out of character for our Do Good Princess doesn't it?

The show has constantly shown us that bad thing happen to those who kill children. Have you all forgotten that Tyrion (Myrcella's Uncle) is Dany's hand and now confidant? Least we not forget how Dany first got the unsullied army?

[Eddard the Builder]

16 hours ago, GravyFace said:

fsdrfsersd

[Eddard the Builder]

Actually its worse than the OP listed.

100,000 Dothraki

7,000 Unsullied 

20,000 Dornish Spears

~100,000 Reachmen (Maybe)

• This is the disputed lands. Olenna is a Redwyne so the entirety of the Redwyne Fleet (including a navy that supposedly rivals the Iron Fleet) is at her disposal.  However I'd imagine that a Civil War erupts in the Reach.  This could go down to 30-50,000

Not that it matters as Dany has 3 bloody Dragons.

Cersei (at best) has:

40,000 Lannisters

10,000 Iron Born (if they ally)

Maybe she can get 30-50,000 Reachmen to ally with her under Randyll Tarly.

[Aryakills]

1 hour ago, Ice Spider said:

I understand all that. I understand that Dany now has ships from the Tyrells and from Dorne.

But

Either Dany is the Show's biggest hypocrite

Or she is using these forces as a means to an end.

Dany constantly makes her " I am going to make the World a better place" speech. How, by aligning with someone that murdered an innocent child? Seems a little out of character for our Do Good Princess doesn't it?

The show has constantly shown us that bad thing happen to those who kill children. Have you all forgotten that Tyrion (Myrcella's Uncle) is Dany's hand and now confidant? Least we not forget how Dany first got the unsullied army?

Some excellent points. Folks can argue population density and the order of battle till they're blue in the face. It comes down to what happens if/when Tyrion finds out Elleria poisoned Myrcella and Olenna was complicit in the purple wedding,

[farm_ecology]

21 hours ago, King Louis II (KLII) said:

Thats it.

That is referring to the Reach.

The North is not a southern Kingdom.

[Darksky]

Dothraki won't be very competent in battles against Westerosi armies. They know how to slash people, but not how western wars are fought. Not to mention, they will be dying like flies when winter hits them. They're not prepared for it, they don't know harsh weather, they've never experienced it, they don't have what it takes to endure it.

[Aryakills]

The war for the crown will be short then she'll send most of the Dothraki home with the statue of Joffery. Winter problem solved.

[Darksky]

1 hour ago, Ice Spider said:

I understand all that. I understand that Dany now has ships from the Tyrells and from Dorne.

But

Either Dany is the Show's biggest hypocrite

Or she is using these forces as a means to an end.

Dany constantly makes her " I am going to make the World a better place" speech. How, by aligning with someone that murdered an innocent child? Seems a little out of character for our Do Good Princess doesn't it?

The show has constantly shown us that bad thing happen to those who kill children. Have you all forgotten that Tyrion (Myrcella's Uncle) is Dany's hand and now confidant? Least we not forget how Dany first got the unsullied army?

She is the biggest hypocrite. How does she want to make Westeros a better place when she's about to unleash an enormous horde of rapists, murderers and pillagers on it? She can never have ultimate and unwavering control over them. She cannot order them not to rape, rob and murder smallfolk and expect all of  them to comply with her demand forever. There are just too many of them. What is she to do with those savages if she wins? She never plans ahead.

[Dragonslack]

The plot is the only thing that matters. She can easily be assassinated for example or 1000 ships come and surprise most of her forces are under the sea or a storm etc. The horn emerges...

[Sword of the Morning]

Aegon the Conqueror devastated Westeros with 3 dragons and his two sisters as fellow riders.  Balerion the Black Dread was so big entire towns could be swallowed under his shadow. Dany doesn't really need anything besides her dragons, Westeros isn't really equipped to deal with something like that. Fully grown Drogon if he is the second coming of Balerion could burn thousands in minutes. Remember Balerion's fire was so hot it melted the stone towers of Harrenhal.  

[GravyFace]

9 hours ago, Ice Spider said:

I understand all that. I understand that Dany now has ships from the Tyrells and from Dorne.

But

Either Dany is the Show's biggest hypocrite

Or she is using these forces as a means to an end.

Dany constantly makes her " I am going to make the World a better place" speech. How, by aligning with someone that murdered an innocent child? Seems a little out of character for our Do Good Princess doesn't it?

The show has constantly shown us that bad thing happen to those who kill children. Have you all forgotten that Tyrion (Myrcella's Uncle) is Dany's hand and now confidant? Least we not forget how Dany first got the unsullied army?

She's using those armies as a means to an end. She's aligning with someone who killed an innocent child, and trying to topple someone who killed MANY innocent people. Cersei has been murdering innocents since before she ever took a crown.

[schweiny91]

On 6/27/2016 at 1:29 PM, Golden Eyes said:

She does now and probably Tyrion now. The preistesses were all calling for Danerys in Mereen and Cersi burning the spet was showing how Dany will rule when she gets there. Kings landing as it is is already falling apart. Remember Daneyrs's scene in the undying house when she sees parts of Kings landing burnt.? That was the throne room and Danerys does that part because she is going to burn it all down and start new as the one true Queen of Westeros.

No

[Jedl Renee]

I'm pretty sure Dany is going to be hit with a reality check pretty hard early on, whether that be the winter or internal conflicts. I have a feeling she isn't going to win on easy mode with dragons, I think they'll be taken out fairly quickly because they aren't fully grown, they aren't as tame as Dany thinks (Drogon is the only one who is somewhat tame) and I figure they'll probably be overwhelmed with everything that's going on. 

[Count Winter]

9 hours ago, Eddard the Builder said:

Actually its worse than the OP listed.

100,000 Dothraki

7,000 Unsullied 

20,000 Dornish Spears

~100,000 Reachmen (Maybe)

• This is the disputed lands. Olenna is a Redwyne so the entirety of the Redwyne Fleet (including a navy that supposedly rivals the Iron Fleet) is at her disposal.  However I'd imagine that a Civil War erupts in the Reach.  This could go down to 30-50,000

Not that it matters as Dany has 3 bloody Dragons.

Cersei (at best) has:

40,000 Lannisters

10,000 Iron Born (if they ally)

Maybe she can get 30-50,000 Reachmen to ally with her under Randyll Tarly.

It looks to easy! So something will happen... With that force she can land anywhere she wants. I don't think she's heading to Dorne, rather make straight for Kingslanding...

[Primalsplit]

I think one thing Dany can not exactly defend herself from are daggers in the dark. So she would need to maintain a strong diplomatic frame. Her forces are extremely strong even without dragons. But now her followers worship her because of them. Dragons are useful as a banner anyway. She doesn't even need to use them much (a good commander would not risk dragons unless it is worth the risk, like how Aegon used dragons).

I'd say splitting the army into 2 main groups would be a good idea to seperate dothraki screamers and the professional westerosi soldiers. Otherwise a mutiny might break out amongst the two distinct groups. Dothraki will do some heavy pillaging and foraging, that's for sure. Reach can not feed all the army and Dothraki would be more useful in hit and run tactics anyway. A good commander would not use Dothraki as the main fighting force, unless Dothraki become a threat to his/her own campaign (due to the unruly nature). If that would be the case, it is simply better to send them on a suicide mission or into the frontlines. But that would be for the worst of worst. I think it is simply better for enough reachmen to left in the Reach to defend against Euron's likely attack to the area, say 15-20k could be enough. Most of the dothraki screamers would be sent to Westerlands to plunder, burn, pillage and rape. The main army would put siege on King's Landing.

With good planning, yes Dany's army is overkill against Cersei. Against Others, maybe barely so. Dothraki arakhs would not have many difficulties against zombies, since most of them would be barely armored if any. Actually, dothraki could be quite useful in inflicting attrition upon the zombies with mounted combat. That's why we have sent them to not engage proffessional Westerosi soldiers, but plunder instead. They would be more useful in the later battles.

Presuming they know of the threat of Others of course.

[Corvinus85]

There is still Euron and his 1000 ships to consider. Daenerys made an alliance with the siblings, and promised them her help to take the Iron Islands. Euron may try to convince Daenerys to abandon them, but considering his brutish methods, and Dany being a fairly honorable person, she won't agree. So that will leave Euron no choice but to make an alliance with Cersei.

He will probably attack Oldtown, and other parts of the Reach to distract the Tyrell forces. Maybe Dorne, too. Maybe we'll get a massive naval battle - that will be better than seeing Dany swath aside the Lannister forces.

I would normally say that Littlefinger would be wise to align himself with Dany, but show Littlefinger is far dumber than his book counter-part, so he may go back to Cersei. But he will most likely die in the North.

With the Frey leadership dead, though there are more Freys, there is a good chance that the river lords will not side with Cersei and rebel. But even so, the forces of the Riverlands are probably severely depleted.

So I'm thinking the Dany coalition vs Cersei + Euron, with Jon being busy preparing the North for war with the WW.

[Davos Dayne]

I can see house Dayne being pretty angry about Dorans death and would rebel against Ellaira and call her a Hypocrite for helping Ollena. Also I think Randall will be Realved to have HATED Mace and would have had no problems assaintaing him if he could make it look like an accident. And sides with cersei Declaring himself as Lord of Highgard Dickon will get Incresing annoyed by this. If they do Infact decide include another Tyrell sibling it would probably be a fusion of Willas and Garlan. Alarie isn't realy an important chacter in the slightest but she needs to be introduced. I can see them just introducing book chacters just to kill them off wwithin an episode (Ie they could introduce Satin and then have a White Walker kill him) It would be a cool Twist if Arrianne was to suddenly apper and Kill Elliara. oh and Mounatin kills Qyburn Bran wargs into the mountain. Jamie (whos now a VERY unpopular lord of Casterly Rock. Is sent down as Hand of the King. A Battle ensues in Epsiode 5

[MoreOrLess]

 

23 minutes ago, Trudee said:

I can see house Dayne being pretty angry about Dorans death and would rebel against Ellaira and call her a Hypocrite for helping Ollena. Also I think Randall will be Realved to have HATED Mace and would have had no problems assaintaing him if he could make it look like an accident. And sides with cersei Declaring himself as Lord of Highgard Dickon will get Incresing annoyed by this. If they do Infact decide include another Tyrell sibling it would probably be a fusion of Willas and Garlan. Alarie isn't realy an important chacter in the slightest but she needs to be introduced. I can see them just introducing book chacters just to kill them off wwithin an episode (Ie they could introduce Satin and then have a White Walker kill him) It would be a cool Twist if Arrianne was to suddenly apper and Kill Elliara. oh and Mounatin kills Qyburn Bran wargs into the mountain. Jamie (whos now a VERY unpopular lord of Casterly Rock. Is sent down as Hand of the King. A Battle ensues in Epsiode 5

Randall having no respect for Mace's incompetence and maybe Olenna's plotting wouldn't be hard to sell at all so I think theres definitely potential to have him either look to take Highgarden or to be promised it by Cersei in return for his support. Theres also maybe potential for the Lannisters hiring sell swords from Essos on promise to repay the Iron bank.

As has been said though it does seem very possible that there not going to be dealing with a straight forward landing and battle, Euron could potentially attack at sea, a storm could strike, there could be some kind of falling out(although I don't think Tyrion learning Olenna killed Joffery would cause that), really just a handful of the main characters and the Dragons would still be an effective force.

Alternatively of course the drama could potentially not be whether Dany "wins" or not but rather at what cost(to her and the locals) and exactly how Cersei falls with Jamie potentially turning against her and maybe Ayra after her as well. They could maybe even have Cersei caught totally cold by Dany whilst looking to attack the Starks/Vale with those battles actually being where the tension is.

 

[bb1180]

Yes,  its overkill,  but I'm almost certain that something is going to happen to throw the whole thing into disarray.   It could be that her fleet runs across that of Euron and there's a sea battle,  where she loses much of her army.  Either that,  and I think more likely,  Dany gets killed while taking King's Landing or shortly afterward,  and without her,  the dragons and dothraki start rampaging through the south. 

As has been said,  this story almost certainly doesn't have a happy ending.  Right now,  it looks like Dany could mop the floor with Cersei and follow up with a quick beatdown of the WWs,  too.  I'm pretty sure that its not actually going to play out that way.