How do you feel about the return of the targaryens?

[khal drogon]

I don't think the endgame is Targaryens sitting the throne.

[Morgana Lannister]

On 8/9/2016 at 8:59 PM, Larger than Average Finger said:

I agree.  Nothing we have seen in GOT thus far would make it a given that Danni would accept Jon as a friend rather than a rival when she learns of his true heritage.

If its true he is a Targaryan, it makes them less likely to be allies, not more.

Personally, in the show I think that Tyrion will advise her that he is the most advantageous marriage allegiance for her.  If this comes to pass and it happens before Jon actually know that he is her nephew he might even go for it.  I reckon he would get a shock if he find out about his true parentage once they are married but I think since they didn't grow up together or anything he could get over it.  I think Tyrion's advice in terms of her being free for a political marriage in Westeros in the last episode is significant in terms of foreshadowing and I cannot really think of any other candidate.  It is not inconceivable that she might she him as a potential threat first but as they said "you make peace with your enemies, that's why it is called making peace."

Personally, for all the flaws that both have I wouldn't be too upset if they end up as main rulers together but I would like other prominent characters to have at least power over their own territories, so that the powered would not be just concentrated on one person or a couple.  For this I have Yara in mind for the Iron Islands, Sansa for the North, Tyrion in charge of Casterley Rock and Tyrion/Sansa as another super power couple, oh, and why not, a reformed Arya (not so thirsty for revenge anymore) with Gendry (as the last exponent of the Baratheon dynasty).  So basically, yeah, happy with a Targaryen heavy leadership with heavy representation from other houses in the share of the power.

The overall political system has to change though; the wildlings should be given more rights and the people in general.  Okay, pretty much happy ending but of course with a lot of deaths to make it bitter-sweet, possibly some of the very major characters included and the dragons of course.  I think the dragons have awoken because of a particular imbalance with the Ice creatures and once this is normalised there will be no further need for them to remain in the equation and they will be destroyed somehow.

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

Dany never started out wanting to have the power for herself she just wanted to see a Targaryens back on the throne in Westeros, she was behind her brothers plans of returning and unseating Robert although she didn't like his choices to get there. But i doubt she would have felt any rivalry for the actual throne as long as a Targaryens was sitting on the throne. So i don't think finding out Jon is related will create any tension it just makes the odds more in favour of a Targaryens taking it a little better.

Who knows maybe they will end up splitting the rule of the kingdom between them and every decision being a joint effort, and if it turns out Tyrion is Targaryens they may third it, splitting Westeros into 3 regions for each to live and rule but coming together for joint decisions that impact the whole country.

[The Arthur Smith]

Not satisfied. The Iron Throne rightly belongs to no one and Dany's endgame is the War of the Dawn. Queen of Nothing and her 3 reptiles needs to go down to give us a satisfying ending because all men must die.

[Lord Friendzone]

On 9. 8. 2016 at 9:59 PM, Larger than Average Finger said:

I agree.  Nothing we have seen in GOT thus far would make it a given that Danni would accept Jon as a friend rather than a rival when she learns of his true heritage.

If its true he is a Targaryan, it makes them less likely to be allies, not more.

She wants family. Of course she'll be sceptical but once she learns the truth she'll be happy she got someone left in the world. Question is how Jon will react to this? Will be identify himself with them or not? Is it important for him and then how? Of course all things Bran saw are important for the war against white walkers and that means Jon's birth too. AAR or to make peace or what  it is that it's so important?

On 10. 8. 2016 at 2:21 AM, Lord Lannister said:

Jon is a Northerner. Even if he finds out Rhaegar is his father, he's not going to suddenly identify with them at all. They're still going to be foreigners with suspect morals at best. He's a Stark no matter what his last name is. His bannermen made that declaration for all the world to hear last episode.

Dany, I can't say I feel too sympathetic towards. She pays lip service to not wanting to commit the atrocities her father did, yet her first instinct is always to do just that. She wanted to raze entire cities to the ground just two episodes absent Tyrion's intervention. She fed potentially innocent people to her dragons just because she was trying to flush out the Harpy and she freaking crucified people virtually at random regardless of what they had or hadn't done as some sort of statement that crucifying people is bad. And with all that, knowing full well who her father was, she presses forward to claim her family's legacy of conquest, literally with fire and blood.

Isn't the point of his heritage to find a balance? To make himelf do what he's destined for or what needs to be done. Jon will always be Northerner but that doesn't rule out acknowledging his Targaryen side.

 

On 10. 8. 2016 at 4:49 AM, A spoon of knife and fork said:

This was always going to be the case in the books, ultimately.  Eventually someone has to kill the unstoppable zombie horde.  Yes, that's not really the interesting part - the human characters and their interactions are., but for any of this to matter, it has to happen at some point.  And no, I don't believe that the books are gonna reveal that the WW are really swell guys working for the betterment of humanity, or Jon is going to join them because dragons are even worse, or some crap.  That's just fanwankery.  

But actually in the show I see a lot of potential for the political stuff to go right up to the end.  Season 7 will be basically all politics.  Though I think keeping things interesting in the North will have to involve a lot of littlefinger.  Otherwise it's just counting turnips and dragonglass arrowheads.  Dany will finally wrest control of the south from Cersei by the end of the season, but that still leaves most of season 8 for the North and South to come to terms, and there will probably be a hiccup or two.  Why?  Because both sides are poised to be made up of ragtag bands of former enemies, former friends, and people with a lot of baggage - all mixed up.  So you'll end up with a lot of really interesting alliances within alliances to explore.

Like let's assume that Jaime and Tyrion make up and they are on the same side.  Well then Jaime will meet up with the Starks, and Bran who he tried to kill.  Sansa and Tyrion were married not long ago that could be akward and interesting to explore.  Etc.  Ther'es a lot that could be done even if the "ultimate climax" if there is such a thing doens't involve Dany and Jon trying to kill each other.  

Honestly I would find such an ending to be the ultimate in annoying stupidity.  Really, we want two characters who are the main leaders in the series to be trying to kill each other, while what the world and all the people in it need is to unite and to have peace so they can finally heal?  I wonder why so many people think this would be anything other than deeply frustrating to read.  

It will be truly interesting to see. It's not just Jon and Daeny but other factors, people and players. What about Varys and Littlefinger. 

[Lord Lannister]

4 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Isn't the point of his heritage to find a balance? To make himelf do what he's destined for or what needs to be done. Jon will always be Northerner but that doesn't rule out acknowledging his Targaryen side.

Jon has done what he's destined to do or feels needs to be done. He gave his life doing that. He did it because Ned Stark raised him to be a moral man and because he has strength of character, not because a man whom he's probably barely thought about in life is his father and he's acknowledged that.

[Ashes Of Westeros]

Targaryens maybe back on the political scene of Westeros and Essos, but not on the Iron Throne yet. I haven't read about every Targaryen yet, but as far as I know, only few of them  did a good job as rulers, most of them were busy fighting each other. That is why I don't think that restoring Targaryens in power would be the high point of the series

I think Jon will identify himself as a Stark and a Northener, even if he learns about his true parentage. besides that, Jon never strived for power., neither in the books nor in the show. He became LC because of maester Aemon and Sam's scheming. In the show it was Sansa who convined him to retake Winterfell and his bannermen proclaimed him the KotN.

On 8/10/2016 at 2:27 AM, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

Dany, I can't say I feel too sympathetic towards. She pays lip service to not wanting to commit the atrocities her father did, yet her first instinct is always to do just that. She wanted to raze entire cities to the ground just two episodes absent Tyrion's intervention. She fed potentially innocent people to her dragons just because she was trying to flush out the Harpy and she freaking crucified people virtually at random regardless of what they had or hadn't done as some sort of statement that crucifying people is bad.

Exactly my thoughts on Dany. I think she could get the IT with fire and blood (in cerseisque manner), but I doubt that she will last long. I consider the scene where Dany makes Tyrion her Hand  mirroring of the time when Aerys made Tywin his Hand. Tywin spent 20 years ruling the country and controlling Aerys so the latter won't burn the whole Westeros.

 

[Lurid Jester]

On August 9, 2016 at 5:45 PM, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

I've always felt this way. If he is truly Rhaegar's son he has a better claim than her, especially if he is trueborn. I just feel like she won't be cool with that, especially since the only other Targ she has known all her life is her brother. And now she's found out her father was pretty much Viserys just with shit tons of wildfire. She still doesn't even know Jon exists yet, I doubt she'll trust him at all when they meet, especially if his true parentage comes out before they do.

She's done a lot of bitching about "usurpers" so if it is true that Jon is Rhaegar's son, and true born heir... I don't see her becoming a usurper.  

Particularly considering her idolized impression of Rhaegar, who died for the woman he loved. 

[Adam_Up_Bxtch]

1 hour ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

Targaryens maybe back on the political scene of Westeros and Essos, but not on the Iron Throne yet. I haven't read about every Targaryen yet, but as far as I know, only few of them  did a good job as rulers, most of them were busy fighting each other. That is why I don't think that restoring Targaryens in power would be the high point of the series

I think Jon will identify himself as a Stark and a Northener, even if he learns about his true parentage. besides that, Jon never strived for power., neither in the books nor in the show. He became LC because of maester Aemon and Sam's scheming. In the show it was Sansa who convined him to retake Winterfell and his bannermen proclaimed him the KotN.

Exactly my thoughts on Dany. I think she could get the IT with fire and blood (in cerseisque manner), but I doubt that she will last long. I consider the scene where Dany makes Tyrion her Hand  mirroring of the time when Aerys made Tywin his Hand. Tywin spent 20 years ruling the country and controlling Aerys so the latter won't burn the whole Westeros.

 

wtf I didn't write any of that why am I the one that is quoted lol

[Ashes Of Westeros]

24 minutes ago, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

wtf I didn't write any of that why am I the one that is quoted lol

Probably I took Lord Lannister's quote from your post. Nevermind

[thi4f]

Everything happening in the show was inevitable. I just hope someone saves Westeros from House Targaryen.

[Salacious Crumb]

On 8/9/2016 at 0:21 PM, El Guapo said:

Daenerys Targaryen the First of Her Name is the rightful Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. So yes, I am very excited that she is coming to reclaim her throne.

Though her destiny is to fight and most likely die against the Others.

 

I'm guessing she is killed before the battle for Dawn.  The TER said Bran would never walk again, but he would fly.  Look for him to warg into Drogon after Daenerys is killed and fight the Others.  Otherwise, barring time-travel, what is his purpose after revealing to Jon his true parentage?

[Cron]

On 8/9/2016 at 9:31 AM, Future Null Infinity said:

So, Daenerys is in her way to Westeros and Jon is a confirmed targaryen, how do you feel about it?

I'm happy for Jon because he's on the verge of knowing his real parentage because all his life he didn't like be a bastard but on the other hand I don't like to see a targaryen on the iron throne, they were the foreign invaders of Westeros for 300 years and another invasion or ruler from the same people is too much (pretty much like real life, no one wants to see his land occupied and re-occupied by the same invaders)

Great thread, but I don't view the return of the Targaryens to power as them being the sole dominant force in Westeros, so I'm not too worried about it.

For years now (ever since I read ADWD, in 2011, I believe), I have been of the opinion that in the end there will be NO single winner of the Game of Thrones, but rather, power will be split among 3 co-equal rulers (tri-archs), a system of gov't described in ADWD.

Under that system, I strongly  beiieve Dany and Tyrion will be tri-archs, but the third is a more open question (MAYBE Jon, but maybe not).  

As such, Targaryens may hold only 2/3rds of the power, and possibly even less, maybe 1/3rd of the power (Sansa could be a candidate to be a tri-arch as well) 

[Future Null Infinity]

3 hours ago, Cron said:

Great thread, but I don't view the return of the Targaryens to power as them being the sole dominant force in Westeros, so I'm not too worried about it.

But there is a theme in the story, the theme of all the houses that rebelled with Robert against the targaryens are pretty much in very big trouble right now (some of them are destroyed) and house Targ is in rise to its former glory with Daenerys and Tyrells and Dornish are the allies of the Targs which make the Targs the sole power in Westeros

[Cron]

4 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said:

But there is a theme in the story, the theme of all the houses that rebelled with Robert against the targaryens are pretty much in very big trouble right now (some of them are destroyed) and house Targ is in rise to its former glory with Daenerys and Tyrells and Dornish are the allies of the Targs which make the Targs the sole power in Westeros

Of course, I agree with you that the Targaryens are now way ahead of the rest of Westeros in power.  In fact, the dragons alone would be overwhelming to any other House of Westeros.

But that doesn't mean Dany will hold all the power and leverage at the end, and even if she does hold the vast majority of the power at the end, believe it or not I could still see her agreeing to split it up.  I believe there's a point to Dany's long journey discovering that what she thought was history (bad Usurper, good Targs loved by the people) really wasn't completely accurate (in other words, Viserys' version of events compared to what other people have since told her, definitely including Barristan when he told and convinced Dany that the Mad King was in fact mad)

Tyrion is now Dany's most trusted advisor, and he KNOWS about the tri-arch concept.  Believe it or not, I believe Dany is going to agree to split the power of the Iron Throne, giving it to three co-equal tri-archs (two of whom will be Dany and Tyrion, and the third I'm not so sure about)

Three Heads of the Dragon.. 

 

[El Guapo]

18 hours ago, Salacious Crumb said:

I'm guessing she is killed before the battle for Dawn.  The TER said Bran would never walk again, but he would fly.  Look for him to warg into Drogon after Daenerys is killed and fight the Others.  Otherwise, barring time-travel, what is his purpose after revealing to Jon his true parentage?

Sorry I don't see this happening at all. Dany is going to be very much involved in the battle with the Others. Also this idea that Dany's purpose in this story is just to bring the dragons to Westeros so that other characters can warg or mount them in the big battle is just silly and quite insulting..

[Future Null Infinity]

1 hour ago, Cron said:

Tyrion is now Dany's most trusted advisor, and he KNOWS about the tri-arch concept.  Believe it or not, I believe Dany is going to agree to split the power of the Iron Throne, giving it to three co-equal tri-archs (two of whom will be Dany and Tyrion, and the third I'm not so sure about)

Three Heads of the Dragon..

You forgot the house of the undying vision of Daenerys, the iron throne was destroyed, the thing that made all the misery of Westeros, IMO, it will not be an iron throne at the end

[Cron]

1 hour ago, Future Null Infinity said:

You forgot the house of the undying vision of Daenerys, the iron throne was destroyed, the thing that made all the misery of Westeros, IMO, it will not be an iron throne at the end

The destruction of the Iron Throne (singular) is NOT contrary to my theory, it is strong support for my theory.

My theory is that there will be three co-rulers, not one, and thus the destruction of the Iron Throne (singular) is completely consistent with that.

[Damitol]

I don't think it will be Dani or Jon at the end.  George said it would be a "bittersweet" ending and allegedly shared the ending with D&D, although he could everything by the time book 7 is released in 2174.

So - I'm guessing that someone who really isn't looking for the power will end up on the throne out of sense of duty, rather than wanting it.  I agree with others that neither Jon or Dani will survive the war with the WW, as their deaths will be unexpected by most people watching AND reading, plus neither would be a surprise if they sat on the throne.  And while I see the merit of the tri-arch idea, I don't think of that as "bittersweet".

What if somehow Tyrion made it to the end and was put on the Iron Throne by whomever is left.  He never wanted the power or responsibility and would no doubt hate a lot of the job, but he is undoubtedly one of the most qualified characters to do the job, and we could assume he would rule fairly and logically.

I know there are problems with that theory in getting him there by current rules, but I'm just saying that is about the most bittersweet yet satisfying ending I can think of.

[WolfOfWinter]

On 15/8/2016 at 6:39 PM, Lurid Jester said:

She's done a lot of bitching about "usurpers" so if it is true that Jon is Rhaegar's son, and true born heir... I don't see her becoming a usurper.  

She's literally helping Yara usurp her uncle who was chosen into his position by their people. She was also perfectly fine with putting her son on the Iron Throne back when her brother was still alive. I don't believe Jon will ever pursue the Iron Throne, but Dany's not going to stand aside for him if he chooses to fight for it.